How can you hate Tom Cruise? He was in Interview with the Vampire, for cryin out loud!

...Suddenly, I'm dreading this thread....

good point on the trailor. anyone wanna take bets that Tommy doesnt get his head lopped off in that one "execution" scene? thanks trailer producer guy, you just destroyed any chance at drama that scene may have had. Its not as bad as the negotiator trailor, but its close.

j

Obviously. A poor choice of words to begin this thread.

But, the sentiment makes perfect sense! Yet another stupid, arrogant "let's put an American in some other culture and make him the hero" contrived piece of garbage?? It's no wonder the world hates the USA.

And, while I don't dislike Cruise, what they do with him in some action flicks is just a bit too much. It always comes down to a bit of an action scene, then **POSE FOR THE CAMERA** for the pretty boy. Yawn. Do that crap in a romantic comedy or something. Or a drama that is all closeups and photo-ops anyway.

Not in my plans to spend $5-12 on this.

dont see anything inherantly wrong with this as a plot element. Not like its never happened before. Every man that stormed the beaches of Normandy was 1st put in some other culture (generally an English one) and went on to be a "hero" fighting in someone elses war. Happened several times in China in the early-to-mid 20th century as well. Im sure there are lots of other examples, but the point is that the idea is not fundamentally flawed.

As to hating america, people that do tend to be leftist, jealous, zealots, or unreasonably bitter about some kind of past military or economic defeat. There was a time not that long ago where the world was going to be ruled by either Nazis or Communists and the one thing that stood in their way was the US. If you'd prefer the former to the later, you probably have no idea what the former was really like. IMO "hating" a country is madness and anyone that does is a short step away from crazy. There isnt a single country in the world I hate.. individuals... groups... ideologies yes... but an entire country? never.

"the world hates..." is also quite an exageration. There are literally billions of people that are either supporters of the US or indifferent. Supporters, "indifferents" and people who disagree with our policys but dont hate us clearly and demonstrably outnumber the number of people who truly hate the US.

also, the nationality of the characters really isnt relevant to most people. I remember watching the Rambo SE extras and they were talking about how rambo was such a big hit with men in the middle east... even though the character was clearly american and the kind of guy that might go on a mission to kill a bunch of arab men. American film is global that way, and anyone that would "hate" the US because of plot lines like the one in tLS probably hates us already anyway.

j

How can you hate Tom Cruise? He was in Days of Thunder.

I'm glad you're entertained by cartoons and other excursions into fantasy land, but I'll stick to the serious drama to be found in Last Samurai. I can sit here and say Last Samurai will be better than Return Of The King , because no matter what happens in the movie, it will still be more exciting than fantasy trash any day of the week. Hell, a three hour documentary about me mowing my yard would be better to me than ROTK, because it takes place in reality. That's just me.

Mystic River

See it. It's made for adults, and it's taking home the Best Picture Oscar. The battle has already been won. Last Samurai is just fighting for the spot of Second Best Movie of the Year.



And Tim Burton has never been good.

While I agree that the general maturatiy level among LOTR fans is a bit embarassing, they are pretty good movies.

And I'm a pretty tough customer who initially hated FOTR.

I'm not sure if I've hard anything more ridiculous ever stated in this forum (well, that might be overkill . . . we miss you danol ). Whether or not you like the LOTR movies . . . a 3-hour lawn mowing documentary because it takes place in reality? Surely you can give clearer, or at least more believable, support than that.

check ur headgear new guy, tLS IS fantasy.

j

Hey,
Lots of people hate the popular actors, the ones that women adore, the ones that have had huge box office hits etc.

Call Cruise a pretty boy, but every time I see him he looks scruffy as hell cuz he alway's out doing that extreme sports crap and mountain biking all over hell.

He seems from a distance like a guy's kind of guy.

It's the same with Julia Roberts. If she wasn't so famous and loved by women everywhere then people wouldn't hate her so much either.

Cruise plays an AMERICAN who is supposed to train the SAMURAI to fight like soldiers from the WEST.

Of course they're not stupid enough to have Tom Cruise be the actual samurai kicking all these real warriors into the turf.

Just wait til you see the movie before you hate it.

I always wait until I see a LOTR picture before I bash it because of the boredom from watching it.

The only thing I don't like in the Last Samurai clips is how 1990's Cruise acts with his laugh at the dinner table.

Other than that, I think it looks great.

This is Ed Zwick's first big thing since his outstanding "Once & Again" TV show was canceled.

So he was probably ready for some hardcore Asian-style war flick.

So,

I actually saw THE LAST SAMURAI tonight in Baltimore.

I'm not a Cruise-lover or -hater. I like Ed Zwick. I hated GLADIATOR and THE TIME MACHINE. Truth be told, when I saw the trailer, I thought THE LAST SAMURAI looked boring, and therefore had low expectations.

And I like many others, did also think "Dancing with Samurai".

Here's the thing, though.

It's really good.

This movie has a good story compellingly told. Tom Cruise does an admirable job, but blends appropriately into the larger story and into one of the better acting ensembles I've seen in some time. Ken Watanabe alone is incredible.

And without giving away any part of the story, the battles and swordplay are also fantastic. There's one scene that was so intense that the whole theater exhaled in relief when it was over, and then we all chuckled at each other. And the reason the combat is so affecting is because it involves characters you can genuinely care about. The movie is definitely violent, but I think it's right for the story.

It seems like every movie season there's at least one movie I'm not particularly interested in, but turns out to be a surprise personal hit. I think I've already seen my Holidays 2003 one.

I don't think I can put it any more straightforward. I like REALITY and films that take place in the REAL WORLD. Fantasy, sci-fi, and cartoons are second rate entertainment to me, and should be treated as goofy good times. Unbelievable stories with unbelievable characters doing unbelievable things. They lack soul, texture, and relevance. I'm interested in the drama found between human beings on Earth, not the struggles to keep a magical ring from destroying a mythical kingdom. Thus, a 3 hour documentary about lawn mowing is more tangible to me than ROTK. I can watch the LOTR movies fine enough as trashy good times, but to think of these films as superior to something REAL like Last Samurai is laughable to me.

How is that ? It's a fictional drama about a white man in late 19th century Japan. As far as I know, there are white men on this planet, there is a country called Japan, and there were samurai warriors in that country. Doesn't look like it belongs in the fantasy genre to me.

If you were trying to make some sort of smartass remark about the believability of a white man joining the samurais, I'll have you know it happened numerous times throughout history. I don't know why it's so hard to believe. White men can properly use swords as well as they can use guns.

I can see why you might feel this way. Often fantasy and sci-fi films have nothing to say about the human condition. But I would strongly suggest that you see films like 2001: A Space Odessey, Solaris, Blade Runner, Videodrome, Stalker, and Alphaville. Those are sci-fi and they've got more to say than any film set in straight reality ever could.

Yes, yes it is.

While I'm still interested in seeing the movie, I *am* tired of the same stupid trailer being shown. I mean, couldn't they have done any sort of variation at least?

the point is that 99.9% of what hollywood produces is a fantasy. It may be cloaked with some sense of reality, but its just a mirage. Silly example... how many times, in REAL life do you think a cop has put down his gun because a hostage-taker says "do it or shes DEAD!!". answer: never in the history of policework... and yet it happens so routinely in hollywood productions that it for some people it probably seems like a realistic possibility. Naturally, its the directors job to suspend your disbelief or whatever, but in the end they are all fabrications. Dirty Harry is no more real a character than Bilbo Baggins.

based on what you say you like, I really dont see how you can tolerate to watch anything but pure documentaries. If thats what you're into, fine go watch em... but I dont see the point of thread crapping when the topic of discussion is clearly material you have no interest in.

j

You seem to think I hate fiction. If I hated everything that was fictional, I would hate all films.I know that fictional license is taken sometimes to make everday events more dramatic. That's systemic in film and won't ever change. They're still fictional dramas set in the real world. The events in the films I like are things that can, and do happen everday in this world. I want to see human beings interacting with one another. Talking, loving, hurting, and laughing at each other. I didn't say I couldn't stand all fiction. I love fiction. I just can't stand sci-fi, fantasy, and cartoons. Nothing in those worlds is possible, and that bores me.

And I wasn't the one thread crapping. This thread was started to talk about Last Samurai. I said that I thought Last Samurai would be the best film of December, and then the geeks started arguing with me because I didn't bow down to ROTK. I wasn't about to let them embarass the Supreme one.

You didn't need the help.

Actually the point of Sci-fi is that it's "speculative fiction". The things that happen in those worlds "could" happen. Statements like yours make me wonder if you've seen any good sci-fi. Sure there's a lot of junk in the genre, but there's a lot of great cinema too.

Furthermore you may want to consider the metaphoric value of Sci-fi and fantasy. While much of it is ludicrous on the surface it's metaphoric for the human condition.

I'm only dragging this arguement out because it bugs me to hear a film fan write-off an entire genre.

Honestly, for me anyway, I am just amazed that a brain could shut out one type of creativity, while embracing another one, just because it is less overt. Does it extend to marginal sci-fi that takes place in the real world (e.g.,Bruce Almighty, Superman, 28 Days Later)? What about other forms of art (e.g., literature, painting, etc.)?

I guess the other thing that I wonder about is the comment about wanting to see people "talking, loving, hurting, and laughing at each other". What about The Wizard Of Oz, The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe, Dragonslayer? They all contain relational human interaction and some very compelling sybolism on humanity, religion, etc. Are those less enjoyable then, say, Dumb And Dumber or Die Hard or The Horse Whisperer?

Just curious . . . I'm not trying to slam you or anything, I'm just having trouble fathoming, I guess . . .

Sam, I guess I just feel sorry for you.

My only barometer for a movie is if it's good - not what it's about. If you cannot get into something that's removed from reality, then I feel for you since you obviously have no ability for abstract tought.

It's OK, being a Scientologist, he can identify with bushido.

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=quote&id=859