Matchstick men: Is Nicolas Cage back for good?
#27
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you must not have been paying attention:
-how did Roy come to that particular shrink?
Frank advised him to go see this guy since he cured up another friend/family member of his good. Frank advised him to see the doctor when he ran out of pills.
-the guy with the gray beard played by Bruce McGill
I'm sure he was in on it to. to take a chance like that wouldn't be good for any con to work out. You really did need the full planning of everything, including the made up con within the con.
-how did Roy come to that particular shrink?
Frank advised him to go see this guy since he cured up another friend/family member of his good. Frank advised him to see the doctor when he ran out of pills.
-the guy with the gray beard played by Bruce McGill
I'm sure he was in on it to. to take a chance like that wouldn't be good for any con to work out. You really did need the full planning of everything, including the made up con within the con.
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Originally posted by The Nature Boy
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
[QUOTE]
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
[/spoiler]I could add a few more, but these were just a few issues I had, that will keep this from being a true classic.[/spoiler]
Spoiler:
I know a panic attack sufferer too, and I thought it was hilarious.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Last edited by DonnachaOne; 10-05-03 at 11:05 AM.
#30
DVD Talk Special Edition
Excellent analysis DonnachaOne. I don't agree with every single thing, but you were at least well reasoned, and did let me be more accepting of certian elements. However, just to clarify:
And one more thing
Now I can live with the argument "It's only a movie, get over it", because it is and I should. But with a flaw like that, to me, it'll never be the classic that it could have been.
I do appreciate your thoughtful contributions and dialogue.
Spoiler:
And one more thing
Spoiler:
Now I can live with the argument "It's only a movie, get over it", because it is and I should. But with a flaw like that, to me, it'll never be the classic that it could have been.
I do appreciate your thoughtful contributions and dialogue.
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Originally posted by The Nature Boy
Excellent analysis DonnachaOne.
Excellent analysis DonnachaOne.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I appreciated your gracious reply. Thanks again.
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I just saw this for the first time - picked it up as a blind buy after rave reviews from Ebert and Berardinelli.
I found the film extremely frustrating. I think that the big surprise ending was evident at the half hour mark - as soon as the daughter showed up. After that everything fell too neatly into place.
As for who was in on the big score:
I found the film extremely frustrating. I think that the big surprise ending was evident at the half hour mark - as soon as the daughter showed up. After that everything fell too neatly into place.
As for who was in on the big score:
Spoiler:
#33
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Originally posted by jough
Spoiler:
I agree. I think I would have enjoyed the movie even more if it didn't have the lame twist at the end. I'm getting a little tired of the "Keyser Sose" syndrome that seems to be infecting many films.
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The twist wasn't even a twist! I'm not trying to pat myself on the back for having seen it coming twenty minutes into the film - but I thought it was SO obvious that it really ruined the movie for me, because I kept thinking "If I'm right, than this movie sucks. Please don't let me be right. Mr. Scott, I'm trusting you to not pull a stupid non-twist ending on me!"
I think the clues were too heavy-handed, and that too much of the film was devoted to supporting the twist. Without the twist ending - if they'd cut that and everything that supported it - the film would only have been about twenty minutes long.
And this was based on a novel? Was the plot the same in the book? Has anyone read it?
I think the clues were too heavy-handed, and that too much of the film was devoted to supporting the twist. Without the twist ending - if they'd cut that and everything that supported it - the film would only have been about twenty minutes long.
And this was based on a novel? Was the plot the same in the book? Has anyone read it?
#35
DVD Talk Hero
apparently, in the commentary, the original script did not have the twist ending, but robert zemekis read the script and the book, and wanted the twist back in the movie.
#37
DVD Talk Limited Edition
I have to agree with a lot of the posters here. I almost would've enjoyed the movie better WITHOUT the twist -- it just took me right out of the movie (kind of like the ending of "Identity," another one where the twist made you wonder what the point of the whole movie was).
#40
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by jough
The twist wasn't even a twist! I'm not trying to pat myself on the back for having seen it coming twenty minutes into the film - but I thought it was SO obvious that it really ruined the movie for me, because I kept thinking "If I'm right, than this movie sucks. Please don't let me be right. Mr. Scott, I'm trusting you to not pull a stupid non-twist ending on me!"
I think the clues were too heavy-handed, and that too much of the film was devoted to supporting the twist. Without the twist ending - if they'd cut that and everything that supported it - the film would only have been about twenty minutes long.
And this was based on a novel? Was the plot the same in the book? Has anyone read it?
The twist wasn't even a twist! I'm not trying to pat myself on the back for having seen it coming twenty minutes into the film - but I thought it was SO obvious that it really ruined the movie for me, because I kept thinking "If I'm right, than this movie sucks. Please don't let me be right. Mr. Scott, I'm trusting you to not pull a stupid non-twist ending on me!"
I think the clues were too heavy-handed, and that too much of the film was devoted to supporting the twist. Without the twist ending - if they'd cut that and everything that supported it - the film would only have been about twenty minutes long.
And this was based on a novel? Was the plot the same in the book? Has anyone read it?
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Yeah, I was frustrated with the whole film after the first 20 minutes or so.
It was just so disappointing - especially since I BOUGHT it on a blind buy since it got so many good reviews. I mean, four stars from f***ing Ebert.
This is a 1 1/2 star movie - two TOPS.
Anyway, mine's already for sale. I only hope that I can get more than I paid for it - that way at least I could get one-up on Ridley Scott. Of course, to be truly even he'd have to give me my two hours back.
Well, it's not the first time Scott's made a crappy film that I paid good money for - so I guess it's shame on me this time.
It was just so disappointing - especially since I BOUGHT it on a blind buy since it got so many good reviews. I mean, four stars from f***ing Ebert.
This is a 1 1/2 star movie - two TOPS.
Anyway, mine's already for sale. I only hope that I can get more than I paid for it - that way at least I could get one-up on Ridley Scott. Of course, to be truly even he'd have to give me my two hours back.
Well, it's not the first time Scott's made a crappy film that I paid good money for - so I guess it's shame on me this time.
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Wow. You guys should pat yourselves on the back for picking up "the twist" within 20 minutes. No, seriously.
I don't know if you guys are really mad about the twist, or mad because you overanalzyed the movie before you even saw the whole thing. It pisses me off when people blame the movie on things like this. That's what the movie is. Any confidence-based movie is going to have a twist. So go sell/trade your DVD right now, someone else will enjoy it more than you.
Like many, I enjoyed the film. Without the twist, the movie wouldn't have been as good. So I can see why you may not like it based on knowing it prior.
Just to answer some questions regarding book and film differences:
If you have any questions about book/film differences feel free to ask.
I don't know if you guys are really mad about the twist, or mad because you overanalzyed the movie before you even saw the whole thing. It pisses me off when people blame the movie on things like this. That's what the movie is. Any confidence-based movie is going to have a twist. So go sell/trade your DVD right now, someone else will enjoy it more than you.
Like many, I enjoyed the film. Without the twist, the movie wouldn't have been as good. So I can see why you may not like it based on knowing it prior.
Just to answer some questions regarding book and film differences:
Spoiler:
If you have any questions about book/film differences feel free to ask.
#43
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is nick back for good?
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808404320
umm...
birrman54
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808404320
Carl Seltz (Cage), an insurance investigator living a happy life as a husband and father, discovers that he has a secret life, even to him, as Nixon, a homocidal tax collector responsible for the deaths of hundreds. Then, Seltz/Nixon discovers something even more amazing... he's also actually Unit Four, a cyborg killing machine, and the intended savior of the enslaved robots of the future...
birrman54
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Considering that it's based on Frank Miller's comic book miniseries "Hard Boiled" I doubt they'd call it anything else.
The premise doesn't sound so great to me, but two things piqued my interest:
1) Screenwriter Frank Miller, and
2) Directed by David Fincher
Although he's really going to the multiple personality well a little too often, hm?
The premise doesn't sound so great to me, but two things piqued my interest:
1) Screenwriter Frank Miller, and
2) Directed by David Fincher
Although he's really going to the multiple personality well a little too often, hm?
#46
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Originally posted by jough
Considering that it's based on Frank Miller's comic book miniseries "Hard Boiled" I doubt they'd call it anything else.
The premise doesn't sound so great to me, but two things piqued my interest:
1) Screenwriter Frank Miller, and
2) Directed by David Fincher
Although he's really going to the multiple personality well a little too often, hm?
Considering that it's based on Frank Miller's comic book miniseries "Hard Boiled" I doubt they'd call it anything else.
The premise doesn't sound so great to me, but two things piqued my interest:
1) Screenwriter Frank Miller, and
2) Directed by David Fincher
Although he's really going to the multiple personality well a little too often, hm?
birrman54
#47
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by Psychlowne
[B]Wow. You guys should pat yourselves on the back for picking up "the twist" within 20 minutes. No, seriously.
I don't know if you guys are really mad about the twist, or mad because you overanalzyed the movie before you even saw the whole thing. It pisses me off when people blame the movie on things like this. That's what the movie is. Any confidence-based movie is going to have a twist. So go sell/trade your DVD right now, someone else will enjoy it more than you.
Like many, I enjoyed the film. Without the twist, the movie wouldn't have been as good. So I can see why you may not like it based on knowing it prior.
[B]Wow. You guys should pat yourselves on the back for picking up "the twist" within 20 minutes. No, seriously.
I don't know if you guys are really mad about the twist, or mad because you overanalzyed the movie before you even saw the whole thing. It pisses me off when people blame the movie on things like this. That's what the movie is. Any confidence-based movie is going to have a twist. So go sell/trade your DVD right now, someone else will enjoy it more than you.
Like many, I enjoyed the film. Without the twist, the movie wouldn't have been as good. So I can see why you may not like it based on knowing it prior.
This doesn't happen often with me as I see very few movies but I have to say I felt like I wasted $4.07 on this one. Oh well. You win and lose some.
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I don't think you can name one movie that doesn't have a plot hole or two. It's not a perfect movie, by any means, but it's still great.
Some of it (I think) has to do with the character's performances. I think Angela's character stayed very sincere and true to herself throughout, and I believed every minute of it. That's what sold me on it. Obviously Nic Cage did a great job as well, and their chemistry on screen was great. Maybe if you didn't believe that these characters weren't who they said they were, it could blow the case open, but other than that, the various "holes" that are found throughout are mainly for the replay value (or post-analysis).
I mean, they did test screenings, and obviously people would say the same thing you guys did. But enough people (about 4/5, if I remember correctly) were in suspense the whole time. As with any movie of this kind, you may or may not fall within that 20%, and it sucks if you do.
Some of it (I think) has to do with the character's performances. I think Angela's character stayed very sincere and true to herself throughout, and I believed every minute of it. That's what sold me on it. Obviously Nic Cage did a great job as well, and their chemistry on screen was great. Maybe if you didn't believe that these characters weren't who they said they were, it could blow the case open, but other than that, the various "holes" that are found throughout are mainly for the replay value (or post-analysis).
I mean, they did test screenings, and obviously people would say the same thing you guys did. But enough people (about 4/5, if I remember correctly) were in suspense the whole time. As with any movie of this kind, you may or may not fall within that 20%, and it sucks if you do.
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Where are you getting those numbers, Psychlowne? Can you provide a link to the test screening results?
Matchstick Men doesn't just have a 'plot hole or two' but the entire film is based upon a big plot hole.
If you plug the hole, the film is over.
I'm willing to suspend disbelief and accept that Cage's character would be required to do some pretty stupid and very specific actions in order to make the con work - but when the "twist" at the end is given away in the first 20 minutes, it would have been far more delicious and a "gotcha" if the twist went a completely different direction and you couldn't see it coming - or better yet, as I've written above - it would've been great if *WE* were "set-up" and the twist payoff we were expecting DIDN'T come.
THAT would've been quite a twist - if everything was really at face value. It would've made everything that came before even better.
I just found the whole film frustrating, because I kept thinking "You know, if this ends with the twist that they're giving away here, this movie will suck."
And it did.
Matchstick Men doesn't just have a 'plot hole or two' but the entire film is based upon a big plot hole.
If you plug the hole, the film is over.
I'm willing to suspend disbelief and accept that Cage's character would be required to do some pretty stupid and very specific actions in order to make the con work - but when the "twist" at the end is given away in the first 20 minutes, it would have been far more delicious and a "gotcha" if the twist went a completely different direction and you couldn't see it coming - or better yet, as I've written above - it would've been great if *WE* were "set-up" and the twist payoff we were expecting DIDN'T come.
THAT would've been quite a twist - if everything was really at face value. It would've made everything that came before even better.
I just found the whole film frustrating, because I kept thinking "You know, if this ends with the twist that they're giving away here, this movie will suck."
And it did.