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Just saw Mulholland Drive

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Old 10-23-01 | 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Suprmallet
As best as I can tell, the detectives bag a comb, which just alerts them that a woman was in the limo, and so they assume someone else was involved and is now missing.
makes sense......
the object I remember was definitely long and the same color blue as the key and the box.......
Old 10-25-01 | 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by garmonbozia


makes sense......
the object I remember was definitely long and the same color blue as the key and the box.......
I couldn't tell what it was either, but the dialog that follows implies that it is a pearl earring (or something related to a pearl earring, like a necklace).

So am I the only one who thought that the dirty man
Spoiler:
was Hollywood itself. It is he that holds the Blue Box at the end. It is he that is dirty, slimy, filthy. He is the vile underbelly of a glitsy fake idealized showbiz world. The reality of Hollywood.


This quote below is from Ebert's review. What part is he referring to?????

"One of the scenes also contains the funniest example of pure logic in the history of sex scenes. "

Also, the film reminded me more of Memento than it did Eyes Wide Shut
Old 10-25-01 | 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by new2theplace


This quote below is from Ebert's review. What part is he referring to?????

"One of the scenes also contains the funniest example of pure logic in the history of sex scenes. "

Also, the film reminded me more of Memento than it did Eyes Wide Shut
Some parts were noirish, which is probably why some were reminded of Memento , but to me, as a whole, the picture's dream like atmosphere seemed very reminiscent of Eyes Wide Shut .

Oh and I think Ebert is refering to when Betty says something like "No, but I want to try it with you," which based on her actions at the time seems like a rather obvious statement.
Old 10-25-01 | 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by vasb:
Oh and I think Ebert is refering to when Betty says something like "No, but I want to try it with you," which based on her actions at the time seems like a rather obvious statement.

My take on it is that he is referring to Camilla's line after Betty says "Have you ever done this before?", which is "I don't know." Given Camilla's amnesia, it makes the odd comment quite humorous...
Old 10-25-01 | 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Filmmaker
Originally posted by vasb:
Oh and I think Ebert is refering to when Betty says something like "No, but I want to try it with you," which based on her actions at the time seems like a rather obvious statement.

My take on it is that he is referring to Camilla's line after Betty says "Have you ever done this before?", which is "I don't know." Given Camilla's amnesia, it makes the odd comment quite humorous...
That also sounds like it could be what he was referring to. In fact, I think that's what she says right before the line I thought Ebert was referring to.
Old 10-25-01 | 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by Filmmaker
My take on it is that he is referring to Camilla's line after Betty says "Have you ever done this before?", which is "I don't know." Given Camilla's amnesia, it makes the odd comment quite humorous...
I think you're probably right. Thanks for the refresher
Old 10-28-01 | 10:51 PM
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Saw it. If that film is a true representation of Hollywood and how it works, I'm going to become a film professor and play it safe!

I thought this was Lynch's best film since Blue Velvet. IMO, watching this film without seeing any other Lynch film would be like watching Fire Walk With Me without viewing any Twin Peaks episodes. It would be strange film either way, but you get better understanding with a good background. Now, onto the film:
Spoiler:
I kind of picked up on the dream aspect once I saw the kitchen scene with Diane. She opened in a kitchen she loved and ended in a kitchen that was part of a sh*thole apartment. Also, did she really have family out there or was the aunt thing part of her fantasy? Also, what was with the old folks from the plane and at the end? You could obviously tell this was intended to be a TV series at first, since many characters were given development scenes and never heard from again, (aka Robert Forster's character, the cowboy, and the big guy who beat up the pool caretaker and Adam's wife). Also, anyone else notice that the film didn't really have any real foul language for the first hour and forty five minutes? The film basically does the TV format until Rita and Betty (fantasy characters?) take their clothes off and make love to each other. After that the film seems to shift into the R realm rather swiftly as we enter the "reality" aspect. I think the plan for the series was to have most of it occur in the fantasy realm and the last episode or two would be in the reality setting. I guess what we got here was in effect a Twin Peaks pilot with the mystery being solved to fit a film version. Of course I still have qualms about the film having the dream and reality sequences clearly defined. IMO, the blurring adds to the film's mystique. Also, where was it clear that Diane shot herself? I thought she was trying to get rid of the old people monsters. Also, what was the purpose of the guy in the restaurant who first saw the creepy guy? (The creepy guy was one of the best made horror creatures in cinema history IMO.) Lastly, didn't Diane appear earlier in the film with the blonde guy who had trouble making the hit earlier? I thought that was in the dream sequence.


Now for the love scene: WOW!!!! How old is Laura Harring? I read on imdb that she won a teen USA in 1985, so she must be in her thirties I guess, but her body is outstanding! Also, this might sound nuts, but the lesbian scene in the bed came across to me as one of the most sincere in film history; you honestly thought these characters had deep feelings for one another. Something sorely lacking in many traditional sex scenes. Basically, two women conveyed emotion two people of the opposite sex have failed to do for many years in love scenes.

Oh well, I've rambled and talked too much. Silencio!
Old 10-29-01 | 04:04 PM
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Okay, the silencio can now end. The questions from above still stand and I would like some possible answers if you have the time.
Old 10-30-01 | 12:37 PM
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Long time a Lynch fanatic, I was actually disappointed.

Sure, it had everything I love about Lynch, the abstract, non-normal narrative storytelling, the mystery, and so forth, but it felt a unfinished I guess. What I mean, is the base kind of plot point, the minor/major (depending on your view) theme of Lost Highway or Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (the two films most similar to Mulholland) I could see more easily. Twin Peaks has the dark side of small town life, the evil in the ordinary and such. Lost Highway the nature of identity and conscience/guilt. I guess Mulholland was intended to be some sort of comment, or spawned from, the while stardom-Hollywood thing, but I think it was a little unrealized, like he didn’t get to fine tune that surreal insturment.

I like it, but he missed me. I can appreciate the imagination and vision, but it just didn’t sink into me like I’m used to Lynch doing. I guess all I could see were the frayed ends of what he would have addressed better, in greater detial, in a series.
Old 11-04-01 | 11:41 PM
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i saw it today finally....i loved it. i plan on being conned again and again by this one.
Old 11-05-01 | 01:04 AM
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just saw it today, and it was my first Lynch film.

i'd put this somewhere in my favorite 5 of the year. there's just so much to think about; the salon.com article sure helped to clear things up a bit.


now i have to check out some more Lynch works.




Old 11-05-01 | 04:52 PM
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Caught it this weekend. Not much to add to the above except to say that I enjoyed MD considerably. And as time passes, I find that I think about it often and enjoy the movie even more than when the lights came up in the theater. Certainly among Lynch's best work.

Edited to add that Naomi Watts' performance was amazing. I’m a bit surprised at the lack of press she's getting. But perhaps the overall weirdness of the movie just trumps everything else.

Last edited by audrey; 11-05-01 at 07:22 PM.
Old 11-05-01 | 07:26 PM
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Heh, the cowboy was awesome
Old 11-10-01 | 07:55 PM
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Finally saw it today, after a couple of false-starts. Haven't read the Salon article yet, but thought I would comment before doing that.

This is definately the best Lynch film (I also loved Blue Velvet) that I have seen yet (always caught Lost Highway on TV in the middle and stopped - still waiting for a DVD).

The movie, to me encapsulated LA/Hollywood perfectly - giving you what you want to see, but then it shows you the underbelly.

Someone said they felt 'conned' by the movie and I can only think that this was because of the dream part - we were presented with unreality within the context of the movie, but when you take it out of context, what is it? There's no 'real' in Hollywood - its film, an illusion - "All a recording" - isn't that what the guy in the club says? Dreams define us as much as anything and it was absolute brilliance to present us with the dream, the illusion before showing us 'reality.' The 'dream' also gives a legitimate excuse for Lynch to give us his weird visions.

To me, Mulholland Drive represents an answer for anyone who's seriously asked him/herself - "What is a movie?" A representation of a story, a reflection of life, a dream of how life should be, a presentation of events catering to the audience....

The last hour or so of the movie was amazing - showing all the influences to the dream. The Camille of the dream turned out to be an object of jealousy - probably the last straw for Diane to take her revenge. Everyone in the dream had some aspect of Diane's personality. Diane saw herself as Rita, Camille, the guy in the restaurant who realizes his dreams are coming true, even the girl the assassin questions about Rita.

Re: the influences - goes without saying that Lynch referenced his other movies in this one - I esp. remember the blue curtain in one of the last scenes. Kubrick's EWS has been mentioned and also a healthy dose of Hitchcock. Rita's transformation into a blonde was very evocative of Vertigo at the same time reflecting Diane's personality as I said earlier.
Just yesterday I saw 'Amores Perros' and some of the coincidences are freaky - both films start with a car crash and have the 'bum' character.

So, the things I'll be eagerly looking for on the second go around - did we see that guy in the restaurant again? If the bum in the back of the restaurant represents Hollywood itself - do the old couple represent the public, encouraging the 'dreamers', clamouring for them and ultimately destroying Diane. I also wanted to confirm that Diane shot herself at the end - I thought thats what I saw, but one of the earlier posts raised a doubt.

Ok, I've rambled enough - can't wait to see it again.
Old 11-10-01 | 08:33 PM
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I wanted to go see this one, but the only theater in town showing it stopped

Guess I'll have to wait for the DVD
Old 11-11-01 | 01:28 AM
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Will Lynch give us a good DVD or one with no chapter stops that is bare bones?

Oh well, Silencio!
Old 11-12-01 | 12:45 AM
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Four Stars

Very fine film. It reminded me that I love Lynch's stuff. It ranks behind Twin Peaks & Lost Highway but above Blue Velvet for me.
Old 11-17-01 | 09:04 PM
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From the offerings of 2001, this was one of the few films that I came out of the theater and looked forward to buying the DVD for it.

This film is just plain interesting to watch as it unfolds. I would have wished reviewers would not have mentioned what they did in their synopsis. I am glad I went in with absolutely no knowledge of the contents of this film because I think it's best seen "cold", so I won't touch upon any of the narrative points, and just say, if you enjoy Lynch films, you won't be disappointed, and I would not be surprised if you find this film quietly riveting.

If you pay attention, you'll enjoy the surrealism of the 1st 2 acts, and by the time you get to the 3rd act, it all falls into place like tumblers in a lock, while still remaining with a vestige of mystery intact.

I did enjoy the performances by Naomi Watts and Laura Harring. You simply can't avert your eyes when they are on the screen.

I give it a grade of A or 4 stars.
Old 11-17-01 | 09:25 PM
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Now for some spoilerized discussion points/questions:

Spoiler:
Another thing that I don't recall anyone mentioning is how Rita starts going SWF with Betty as she goes for the blonde hair look (one as an attempt to keep a low profile, the other to emulate Betty). Again, a slight merging of the personas is probably indicated here.

I thought it was hilarious when they guy shoots the dude with the "black book", then shoots another shot to simulate a closer angle for the gun, and then inadvertently shoots the fat lady in the next room. I don't care if it was in there for narrative effect or not, it was just a funny scene.

Was it me, or did Diane have dingier teeth than the idyllic Betty?

Anyhow, it was just a cool film-going experience. The film plays fast and loose with objective logic, and goes for the jugular of subjective logic. Some of the backstory for the "characters" in the film serve to fill in the "yeah, that's how it must have gone down for us to get to where we are" blanks of Diane's fantasy in explaining how things just fell apart for her.

The Winkie's scene at the beginning of the film (the guy talking about his dream and its fatal potency) gives the audience a clue as to the whole fractured narrative structure of the film without really tipping us off until later into the film. Very clever use of foreshadowing if I ever saw it used in a film.
Old 11-18-01 | 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by Patman
Now for some spoilerized discussion points/questions:

Spoiler:
Another thing that I don't recall anyone mentioning is how Rita starts going SWF with Betty as she goes for the blonde hair look (one as an attempt to keep a low profile, the other to emulate Betty). Again, a slight merging of the personas is probably indicated here.

I thought it was hilarious when they guy shoots the dude with the "black book", then shoots another shot to simulate a closer angle for the gun, and then inadvertently shoots the fat lady in the next room. I don't care if it was in there for narrative effect or not, it was just a funny scene.

Was it me, or did Diane have dingier teeth than the idyllic Betty?

Anyhow, it was just a cool film-going experience. The film plays fast and loose with objective logic, and goes for the jugular of subjective logic. Some of the backstory for the "characters" in the film serve to fill in the "yeah, that's how it must have gone down for us to get to where we are" blanks of Diane's fantasy in explaining how things just fell apart for her.

The Winkie's scene at the beginning of the film (the guy talking about his dream and its fatal potency) gives the audience a clue as to the whole fractured narrative structure of the film without really tipping us off until later into the film. Very clever use of foreshadowing if I ever saw it used in a film.

I myself went and saw it a second time to experience this great film again. Needless to say, its a totally different experience alltogether the second time.

Spoiler:

Some other clues are apparent - I especially remember Betty saying 'I'm in this dreamplace'


I'm anxiously awaiting a DVD release. I also wonder if this will get any Oscar noms, considering Lynch co-won the director award at Cannes. The two leads definately deserve recognition.

Patman, some thoughts on your points/questions:
Spoiler:
I think Diane's character is reflected not only in 'Rita' but in several other characters including the guy in the diner and even the dream Camille - after all, its Diane's dream. I wonder how much of her was in the street urchin who asks the assassin for a cigarette...
Old 11-18-01 | 01:49 AM
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I just loved this film. I have only seen Blue Velvet and some of Twin Peaks but now I am definetly going to check out as much Lynch as I can.

BTW...

Did anyone think that the item found by the detectives was the plastic key to the box?
Old 11-18-01 | 10:12 AM
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Now that I've slept on it, I think:

Spoiler:
that all of the main characters are some distinct personalities of Diane, all in her fantasy-driven mind of make-believe that clashed with reality. When it's shown that she's masturbating by herself, that's final clue we need to know that that the anthesis of her, Rita/Camilia, is just another personality within her delusional mind. Giving Rita the blonde wig is just her subconscious trying to sort out all of the personalities, trying to merge them together one by one, and finally when they go to theater where the guy is talking about how it's all dubbed/faked, it's just an indictment on the whole Hollywood system.


All in all, just a nifty film to watch and allow it to immerse you into this other world.
Old 11-18-01 | 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by zooroaster
BTW...

Did anyone think that the item found by the detectives was the plastic key to the box?
IRC, it was some pearls that might have come off a pearl necklace or earring, it was the detective assumption that a woman was also in that car.
Old 11-18-01 | 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by MrN
Patman, some thoughts on your points/questions:
Spoiler:
I think Diane's character is reflected not only in 'Rita' but in several other characters including the guy in the diner and even the dream Camille - after all, its Diane's dream. I wonder how much of her was in the street urchin who asks the assassin for a cigarette...
[/B]
Spoiler:
As I said above, I can easily see the street urchin/whore be yet another part of Diane. Some actresses that don't make it in Hollywood fall victim to whoring their bodies out to make ends meet, or feed an addiction. It does go with the whole "Naive Betty" character with high hopes, and the bitterness of turning into that street urchin/whore.

I definitely think the film plays better if you view as it being all about Diane's schizophrenic fantasy with very little basis in reality relationship-wise, without thinking that there really is a Rita or Camilia, who could represent any of a number of other actresses that Diane not only idolizes, but beat her out of any juicy acting parts of significance, thus killing her hopes and dreams.
Old 11-18-01 | 02:30 PM
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Having had time to reflect in the past three weeks,
Spoiler:
I was wondering if Diane really had an Aunt out there in the first place or even got an audition. She might have just gone and never gotten anywhere, eventually turning into what she did.


Another possibility,
Spoiler:
The end sequence is a prequel to the first 2/3. After Diane kills herself, she finds herself in this twilight zone world for a while before being zapped into the real afterlife in the box. Say, just what was the box anyway, and why did those old people come out of it after the scary man dropped it?


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