Got my R2 Casshern -- Initial Thoughts.
11-17-04, 08:17 AM
#76
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi PAT,
Im glad you liked the movie. I wish I could share your enthusiasm over the movie. It's just another movie, as with SKY CAPTAIN and BOURNE SUPREMACY, in which I have no understanding why people loved these films so much...
"If you didn't see how the movie expressed the ending, then I'm afraid you just didn't get the movie. I definitely saw the message in the movie, and it's not that hard to see. It is a Japanese movie, though, so vagueness is never a stranger."
I understand that they "tried" to put a message in the movie, but it just wasn't constructed well - throughout the movie and with the forced epilogue at the end. The movie is supposed to be the message itself. Cinematically, when there is a forced preaching epilogue (a la Mastercard "Priceless" commercial) about how one should love and co-exist, that's a little unneccesary if the filmmaker had confidence that this theme was developed throughout the movie.
"the last few lines of dialogue kind of kill the mood of the pictures you see before them, and because it's the last thing of the movie it might give an overall lower impression of the movie, but if you forget those lines, the movie is just awesome"
The last lines of dialogue or the forced epilogue didn't make me look at the movie even worse - actually, I thought the little preaching epilogue was nice and touching by itself regardless of the movie, but didn't connect to the whole movie as a whole, because the whole movie was boring and a cinematic mess.
Since CASSHERN and IMMORTEL are based on anime and a graphic novel, IMMORTEL is basically a better version of the comic. I've read The Nikopol Trilogy, which is the comic version of IMMORTEL, and honestly, the movie did a pretty good interpretation of what needs to be focused on in the movie. I don't know how CASSHERN the movie compares to CASHHERN the anime...
I don't know why the IMMORTEL director chose to use different levels of CG characters, but it didn't bother me. I think he wanted to emphasize different levels of alien characters, but who knows...IMMORTEL isn't a great movie, it's just a very interesting and entertaining one...One of these days I'll watch CASSHERN again and try to appreciate it.
Im glad you liked the movie. I wish I could share your enthusiasm over the movie. It's just another movie, as with SKY CAPTAIN and BOURNE SUPREMACY, in which I have no understanding why people loved these films so much...
"If you didn't see how the movie expressed the ending, then I'm afraid you just didn't get the movie. I definitely saw the message in the movie, and it's not that hard to see. It is a Japanese movie, though, so vagueness is never a stranger."
I understand that they "tried" to put a message in the movie, but it just wasn't constructed well - throughout the movie and with the forced epilogue at the end. The movie is supposed to be the message itself. Cinematically, when there is a forced preaching epilogue (a la Mastercard "Priceless" commercial) about how one should love and co-exist, that's a little unneccesary if the filmmaker had confidence that this theme was developed throughout the movie.
"the last few lines of dialogue kind of kill the mood of the pictures you see before them, and because it's the last thing of the movie it might give an overall lower impression of the movie, but if you forget those lines, the movie is just awesome"
The last lines of dialogue or the forced epilogue didn't make me look at the movie even worse - actually, I thought the little preaching epilogue was nice and touching by itself regardless of the movie, but didn't connect to the whole movie as a whole, because the whole movie was boring and a cinematic mess.
Since CASSHERN and IMMORTEL are based on anime and a graphic novel, IMMORTEL is basically a better version of the comic. I've read The Nikopol Trilogy, which is the comic version of IMMORTEL, and honestly, the movie did a pretty good interpretation of what needs to be focused on in the movie. I don't know how CASSHERN the movie compares to CASHHERN the anime...
I don't know why the IMMORTEL director chose to use different levels of CG characters, but it didn't bother me. I think he wanted to emphasize different levels of alien characters, but who knows...IMMORTEL isn't a great movie, it's just a very interesting and entertaining one...One of these days I'll watch CASSHERN again and try to appreciate it.
11-17-04, 08:27 AM
#77
DVD Talk Hero
The main problem with Casshern is that it's too ambitious. It's as if the director told himself that this was his 1st and only shot at ever making a film and he decided to cram as much stuff in there as he possibly could. You get bombarded with anti-war messages, a mindboggling array of visual styles and an overly convoluted plot. Now despite all these flaws, it's impossible not to get caught up in the lavish imagery of the nihilistic set design and the film does pack quite an emotional punch despite an overdose of melodrama.
This film is overly ambitious and flawed but it is also bold, original, and imaginative. And I'd take that any day of the week over your run of the mill, disposable, Hollywood wannabe sci-fi flick that is Returner.
This film is overly ambitious and flawed but it is also bold, original, and imaginative. And I'd take that any day of the week over your run of the mill, disposable, Hollywood wannabe sci-fi flick that is Returner.
Now it's about $50 shipped to the US.
11-20-04, 07:47 PM
#85
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: In the Universe.
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I saw this movie last night and man is it ever impressive. The visuals are great, the sound even better and the story has a Final Fantasy feel to it. Overall very very happy with this dvd. Thanks for the post otherwise I would have never known about this film!
11-21-04, 05:22 PM
#86
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tar Heel for life!
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my verdict:
it sucked as much as avalon did...and that's bigtime.
overly long, a train-wreak of editing and poorly "directed".
not really an action movie, mostly a drama with a few unimpressive, non-inspired action scenes.
glad i didn't buy it...would have been a complete waste of money.
there's my 2 cents!
it sucked as much as avalon did...and that's bigtime.
overly long, a train-wreak of editing and poorly "directed".
not really an action movie, mostly a drama with a few unimpressive, non-inspired action scenes.
glad i didn't buy it...would have been a complete waste of money.
there's my 2 cents!
11-22-04, 10:08 AM
#88
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLATEEF,
I agree with you that CASSHERN sucked big-time, but AVALON is a visually amazing and a good sci-fi movie. AVALON filmmakers understand that less is more - such that each special effect in that movie is respected and paid attention too, with great directing and editing (a la first Matrix). CASSHERN filmmakers don't respect any of its special effects and its an overboard mish-mosh of too many visual things happening on the screen (a la new Star Wars movies).
BUCKEE1,
I was gonna say you just wasted 65 dollars, but I looked at your dvd collection with over a thousand dvds, and all I can say is that another 65 dollar DVD ain't gonna matter at this point! You should open up a video store!
I agree with you that CASSHERN sucked big-time, but AVALON is a visually amazing and a good sci-fi movie. AVALON filmmakers understand that less is more - such that each special effect in that movie is respected and paid attention too, with great directing and editing (a la first Matrix). CASSHERN filmmakers don't respect any of its special effects and its an overboard mish-mosh of too many visual things happening on the screen (a la new Star Wars movies).
BUCKEE1,
I was gonna say you just wasted 65 dollars, but I looked at your dvd collection with over a thousand dvds, and all I can say is that another 65 dollar DVD ain't gonna matter at this point! You should open up a video store!
11-22-04, 10:33 AM
#89
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
11-25-04, 02:35 AM
#91
Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what's up with all the mostly 0-region CASSHERNs that are all over ebay right now???
some seem to have the same extras as the region 2 : 3 dvd set.
i assume these are bootlegs, but not sure why the auctions are still up is this is true.
do a search on ebay for CASSHERN
some seem to have the same extras as the region 2 : 3 dvd set.
i assume these are bootlegs, but not sure why the auctions are still up is this is true.
do a search on ebay for CASSHERN
01-30-05, 12:38 AM
#93
DVD Talk Limited Edition
DTS (HK Version) here: http://koreandvds.com/dvddetail.html?id=25997
02-01-05, 06:08 AM
#96
New Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Long read, but might be worth your time :)
What follows is only my opinion of the film and some advice for those curious what to expect. <no real spoilers but LONG-WINDED>
First time I watched this film in Japan I had no clue what it was about—just that a friend said it was cool. Though I found some scenes visually appealing, by the end I was rather angry with this film—mostly stemming from disgust at the middle portion and some serious issues I had with the picture quality. So you could say I understand where a lot of the negative reviews on this thread are coming from.
However, after multiple viewings and some background, I have to strongly disagree.
For a little context: I’ve been working on an academic project that is taking recent Japanese films based on older works, translating and subbing them while thematically comparing past and present works to Japanese society and culture (just as fun as it sounds). One of these films is Casshern. Since I first saw this in early November and counting screenings and subbing, I’ve seen this sucker well over 30 times. Yeah, pretty scary. Nonetheless, I now love this film and am surprised to find that even further viewings have not really deteriorated the experience (dunno if that’s good or bad…).
Anyway, here’s a few facts that might not be known:
1) This film is based on a crappy old 1970’s anime TV series as well as an early 90’s OVA that fought valiantly to maintain mediocrity (more crap).
2) The director (Kazuaki Kiriya) is married to J-pop star Utada Hikaru and has directed a handful of her music videos (you’ll really be able to tell). Also works as a photographer.
3) A lot of people are confused by the sometimes grainy picture quality of the film (especially since it’s a DVD), but it has been stated in interviews that these filter effect were completely intentional. Not only does it provide a grittier feel to the film, but was also likely used to help blend-in any glaring CG effects. (First time I watched I kept thinking that these people were morons to not be able to properly light a scene.)
4) This film’s budget (converted to US $) was less than 6 million. Like the movie or not, gotta admit that’s pretty impressive.
5) The director strove to make this a live-action anime film not only through tropes and plot (or some might argue, lack of) but also through camera angles, and a number of other visual effects. Normally animation can pull off stuff that would never, never fly in live-action, but I personally think he did quite well—and I’m sure the anime fans out there can think of a few failures (GTO, Devilman, Perfect Blue, Sailor Moon).
There’s a whole bunch of other cool staff-related stuff, but it really doesn’t pertain to the film itself (though some nice ironic touches).
That all being said, the main issue that has come up over and over with people I’ve shown this film to is that they didn’t know what to expect and had mixed reactions at best (like I did). So now I often give people a few heads-up pointers (no spoilers) before the movie and the feedback has been almost unanimously positive. So if I may be allowed to be somewhat presumptuous, I’ve tried to articulate them below (I honestly think they help, but feel free to skip if you have objections).
Preemptive comment: Casshern is no masterpiece. If you want the best in Japanese cinema, go back to the old-school directors like Ozu, Mizoguchi, and Kurosawa (to name the standard three) ‘cause it’s hard as hell to get ahold of most of the really good Japanese films from the last 15 or so years (distribution hurdles, U.S. film industry perceiving lack of U.S. interest, no English subs, etc.). There are a few shots in Casshern that I honestly have no clue as to why they exist and a few subtle mistakes that may perhaps be indicative of Kiriya’s first time as a film director (won’t point them out, it’s kinda distracting in the long run). Not to mention that some of the following “pointers” could be argued as proof of various weaknesses. However, Casshern by no means belongs anywhere near Returner and the rest of the crap that the Japanese film industry pumps out just as quickly as Hollywood.
Anyway, here we go: POINTERS:
1) Casshern is meant to be a live-action anime. Live-action anime. This includes the standard save-mankind plot, superhumans created through arbitrary means, and various acting techniques. So don’t be surprised if a character or two occasionally start acting Shakespearian (over-acting) ‘cause it’s all over the place in anime—and I can guarantee that the actors that are guilty of this are more-than-competent in their other films.
2) THIS IS NOT A SUBTLE MOVIE. Good god, while there’s still a little of that old-fashioned and wonderfully subtle Japanese-feel, most of the time the themes of this film will be pounded into your head repeatedly. While I really hated this the first time, I saw that the main themes are given more than the simple lip-service that’s been passing for “deep” and “intellectual” in a lot of recent films. Nonetheless, not subtle.
3) This film requires a greater suspension-of-disbelief than you would normally expect. Sure, some people will point this out as being a sign of a poorly-made film, to which I have quickly chosen a three-word reply: “Dogville, Neo, and Legolas.” I know kung-fu too.
4) This is a world in which gods exist. The film barely covers this (even in the commentary), but acts of the gods do occur and “prayers” (for lack of a better term) can be answered. No deus ex machina, thank goodness.
5) The film leads you to believe it’s going to be one way based on the first portion, but then suddenly makes a huge stylistic turn. I hear the most complaints from people who had trouble making the sudden adjustment.
6) Yeah, the very first fight scene… I could justify certain editing techniques in relation to the film and plot, but it’s best to just let it go, just let it go…
Now all of the above might paint Casshern in a very poor light, but I wouldn’t be taking this much time trying to explain certain contexts and weaknesses if I didn’t feel the film was worth it—hell, I could have just written “I liked it” and saved you guys a few minutes of reading :P I completely understand how many people will not enjoy this film (got nothin’ against them), but I have to honestly say that although Casshern has its share of flaws, I’ve come to enjoy it immensely.
First time I watched this film in Japan I had no clue what it was about—just that a friend said it was cool. Though I found some scenes visually appealing, by the end I was rather angry with this film—mostly stemming from disgust at the middle portion and some serious issues I had with the picture quality. So you could say I understand where a lot of the negative reviews on this thread are coming from.
However, after multiple viewings and some background, I have to strongly disagree.
For a little context: I’ve been working on an academic project that is taking recent Japanese films based on older works, translating and subbing them while thematically comparing past and present works to Japanese society and culture (just as fun as it sounds). One of these films is Casshern. Since I first saw this in early November and counting screenings and subbing, I’ve seen this sucker well over 30 times. Yeah, pretty scary. Nonetheless, I now love this film and am surprised to find that even further viewings have not really deteriorated the experience (dunno if that’s good or bad…).
Anyway, here’s a few facts that might not be known:
1) This film is based on a crappy old 1970’s anime TV series as well as an early 90’s OVA that fought valiantly to maintain mediocrity (more crap).
2) The director (Kazuaki Kiriya) is married to J-pop star Utada Hikaru and has directed a handful of her music videos (you’ll really be able to tell). Also works as a photographer.
3) A lot of people are confused by the sometimes grainy picture quality of the film (especially since it’s a DVD), but it has been stated in interviews that these filter effect were completely intentional. Not only does it provide a grittier feel to the film, but was also likely used to help blend-in any glaring CG effects. (First time I watched I kept thinking that these people were morons to not be able to properly light a scene.)
4) This film’s budget (converted to US $) was less than 6 million. Like the movie or not, gotta admit that’s pretty impressive.
5) The director strove to make this a live-action anime film not only through tropes and plot (or some might argue, lack of) but also through camera angles, and a number of other visual effects. Normally animation can pull off stuff that would never, never fly in live-action, but I personally think he did quite well—and I’m sure the anime fans out there can think of a few failures (GTO, Devilman, Perfect Blue, Sailor Moon).
There’s a whole bunch of other cool staff-related stuff, but it really doesn’t pertain to the film itself (though some nice ironic touches).
That all being said, the main issue that has come up over and over with people I’ve shown this film to is that they didn’t know what to expect and had mixed reactions at best (like I did). So now I often give people a few heads-up pointers (no spoilers) before the movie and the feedback has been almost unanimously positive. So if I may be allowed to be somewhat presumptuous, I’ve tried to articulate them below (I honestly think they help, but feel free to skip if you have objections).
Preemptive comment: Casshern is no masterpiece. If you want the best in Japanese cinema, go back to the old-school directors like Ozu, Mizoguchi, and Kurosawa (to name the standard three) ‘cause it’s hard as hell to get ahold of most of the really good Japanese films from the last 15 or so years (distribution hurdles, U.S. film industry perceiving lack of U.S. interest, no English subs, etc.). There are a few shots in Casshern that I honestly have no clue as to why they exist and a few subtle mistakes that may perhaps be indicative of Kiriya’s first time as a film director (won’t point them out, it’s kinda distracting in the long run). Not to mention that some of the following “pointers” could be argued as proof of various weaknesses. However, Casshern by no means belongs anywhere near Returner and the rest of the crap that the Japanese film industry pumps out just as quickly as Hollywood.
Anyway, here we go: POINTERS:
1) Casshern is meant to be a live-action anime. Live-action anime. This includes the standard save-mankind plot, superhumans created through arbitrary means, and various acting techniques. So don’t be surprised if a character or two occasionally start acting Shakespearian (over-acting) ‘cause it’s all over the place in anime—and I can guarantee that the actors that are guilty of this are more-than-competent in their other films.
2) THIS IS NOT A SUBTLE MOVIE. Good god, while there’s still a little of that old-fashioned and wonderfully subtle Japanese-feel, most of the time the themes of this film will be pounded into your head repeatedly. While I really hated this the first time, I saw that the main themes are given more than the simple lip-service that’s been passing for “deep” and “intellectual” in a lot of recent films. Nonetheless, not subtle.
3) This film requires a greater suspension-of-disbelief than you would normally expect. Sure, some people will point this out as being a sign of a poorly-made film, to which I have quickly chosen a three-word reply: “Dogville, Neo, and Legolas.” I know kung-fu too.
4) This is a world in which gods exist. The film barely covers this (even in the commentary), but acts of the gods do occur and “prayers” (for lack of a better term) can be answered. No deus ex machina, thank goodness.
5) The film leads you to believe it’s going to be one way based on the first portion, but then suddenly makes a huge stylistic turn. I hear the most complaints from people who had trouble making the sudden adjustment.
6) Yeah, the very first fight scene… I could justify certain editing techniques in relation to the film and plot, but it’s best to just let it go, just let it go…
Now all of the above might paint Casshern in a very poor light, but I wouldn’t be taking this much time trying to explain certain contexts and weaknesses if I didn’t feel the film was worth it—hell, I could have just written “I liked it” and saved you guys a few minutes of reading :P I completely understand how many people will not enjoy this film (got nothin’ against them), but I have to honestly say that although Casshern has its share of flaws, I’ve come to enjoy it immensely.
02-01-05, 08:53 AM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: So.Cal
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RonBoster
If anyone is looking to sell their copy send me an email ...
Thanks
Thanks
Same here... [email protected]
02-01-05, 09:26 AM
#98
DVD Talk Hero
Opinions may be mixed but I'm still looking forward to this and am really tempted by that 3-disc set.
02-01-05, 10:27 AM
#99
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Minding the precious things in the Local Shop
Posts: 4,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As stated above, I picked up the set a month or two ago and found it to be visually breathtaking on the whole. It will take a few more viewings to take it all in but from my first time, I found it to be pretty intense.
02-02-05, 12:21 PM
#100
Cool New Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this is of those films where you can easily tell the director has come from a MV background. I wouldn't exactly go as far as saying it's an 'all style and no substance' film, but the story and character development does leave a lot to be desired.
Still I think it may be worth picking up on the cheap for the Casshern vs robot army carnage scene!
Still I think it may be worth picking up on the cheap for the Casshern vs robot army carnage scene!