Depends. Even DCPs use compression, I think that to get 4K masters onto a disc, you'd have to compress somewhat.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I think that's the whole point behind BDXL.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

These discs will be using a different and much more efficient codec -- HEVC. They're talking about 66 gig and 100 gig discs, so they'll have to be smaller than that!

Nope. Unless it's a move with seamless branching, the whole thing is in a single m2ts file. Extras and basically every other piece of video would be in their own individual m2ts files.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Well, 66 GB seems way, way too small. Something will have to give when you've got 4x as many pixels and only ~1.25x as much disk space. More efficient codec or not, it means more information will have to be thrown away.

100Gb seems like it may just be doable for some of the shortest movies, ie under 90 minutes, with no extras.

Remember, we're taking about extended audio formats also, and they may take 15-20 GB per movie. So, that's 20Gb less for the video encode on the disc.

I think those who are willing to take the major plunge by investing in the technology will be picky, and cramming bits seems like a foolish thing to do at this point in the game. Give 'em breathing room -- 150 - 200 GB per disc will ensure that!

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Considering HD-DVD in 2006 was 15GB and held a two hour movie, I would think 66GB or 100GB with 2015 2x better codecs should be plenty of space for 4x pixels. But I agree, the more space, the better.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

3 layer BDXL discs are capable of 128 GB. I'm sure we'll eventually get versions of the disc format with even higher capacity.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Oh, blu-rays use m2ts, not vob?

That's interesting they decide to use a new codec like h.265. I think it'd be kind of like the Apple h.264 movies, e.g., 2GB m4v from a 6GB DVD for a 2-hour movie.

But, for BDXL, people would have to get a whole new player? A software update won't do it?

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Yeah, it requires a totally different disc drive. The cheapest option would be to wait for the drives to go down in price and install one in to your existing PC.

I'm still looking for an inexpensive BD-ROM PC drive at this point.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Not trying to threadcrap it's just I've been wanting to add to this thread for a while now but I have nothing to say.

I have a Bluray player and most "new" titles are purchased on Blu, but I still have a ton of DVDs that will likely never be upgraded to Blu and we've also really come to appreciate streaming, either via Netflix/Hulu or outright purchasing on iTunes.

I simply have no excitement for a new format. Hell, they still haven't fixed the "resume" feature on Bluray, what promise is there that this 4K thing will be any more consumer friendly?

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Don't worry! You're nowhere near threadcrapping. If there's a thread down the road where we talk about upcoming releases, the pros and cons of different players, or whatever, that'd be a different story. In this thread, talking about why you're not interested is absolutely valid.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I recently got this one for $65 on Amazon.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I see nothing wrong. Your concerns are valid. Also, I wonder if the BT.2020 spec will eventually be applied to streaming 4K movies. So perhaps physical media might afford some improvements for the streaming counterpart as well.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I don't see the big deal about the "Resume feature" which I've seen mentioned on several boards. I hardly ever watch movies in sections where I'd need to do that, and my Oppo player already can do that on discs that don't use Java (where you have to wait through those annoying loading screens) and even on several of those I've noticed if I stop a movie in the middle and play the disc again later, it will ask if I want to start from where I was last time. They do need to make it faster to just start and play a movie- some who advocate that streaming nonsense say they like that better because there's no forced previews or stuff at the beginning of those, but some still have the FBI warnings and I bet they'll start putting trailers on those too if more people buy them.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Bring on 4K. I'm not scared!

I don't plan to support it - unless it gets cheap really fast and has support and staying power from the studios (obviously a wait and see situation).
but I like Technology, I like advancement in technologies and that's why I'm embracing 4K.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

There's a difference between embracing a technology which is beneficial to consumers in the long term, and being a guinea pig for companies who simply want to sell something in the short term to simply make a fast profit, leaving your Embraced Technology in the dust, becoming a beverage holder.

I don't see any benefit to 4K for consumers at the moment. We've been promised enough times to know what's going to happen.

Current Blu-ray discs could squeeze a lot of content on a BD-50, and whatever happened to BD-100s, anyway. We haven't even tried to master the Blu-ray disc, and now we have our usual folks marketing 4K to us.

Current Blu-ray movies are still compressed. If you eased the compression on these movies, allowing for a video bandwidth that went into the 50+ Mbps, you'd get something which would probably be on the level with a 4K transfer.

And fuck these FBI warnings. They're getting irritating. There's nothing more insulting than a goddamn plethora of warnings at the beginning of a fucking movie when you paid for the motherfucker.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

4K is mostly getting pushed out so quickly because the electronics manufacturers demanded a new technology cycle to juice sales. Hollywood is only mildly enthusiastic about selling 4K content to consumers, they mostly realize it won't become a mass market format for years.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

"Ever" is far more likely.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I'm not really worried about the business side of things on 4K.
Again, I'm just going to wait and see (for however long it shall take). If the finished product is awesome and looks nicer than my blu and is affordable, then...buy,buy if not then, I still got my blus.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

It isn't. What "gives" is the combination of the more efficient (and processor-dependent) codec and the diminishing bit-budgets required of increasing video resolutions. Due to the nature of the relationship between motion video encoding/compression and cinematic subject matter, the higher the resolution of the video, the less additional information is required to describe the difference from a lower resolution. So, while a 4K image is spatially four times the resolution of a 1080p image, it doesn't require four times the data to encode it, source content being equal. A third factor is that the real spatial resolution of a lot of 35mm camera negatives actually falls somewhere between 1080p and 4K, so the content will dictate a lower data requirement there, also. 100GB discs will work just fine for 4K, with no apparent image degradation versus the quality that can be achieved with 1080p Blu-ray.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Indeed. It's substantively advantageous for 3D content, but of very little practical use in the home (even the "big" home) outside of that. And consumers aren't exactly emptying their wallets onto the floor of Best Buy, demanding an improved 3D experience.

The fact that a 3D playback function wasn't even included in the 4K spec should tell you all you need to know about the prospects of this format finding an audience with the one function that could've actually really demonstrated its value to the average consumer.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I am not a 3D fan but yeah, that decision makes no sense at all.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Not a fan of 3D either, but I have to say it seems odd that they wouldn't throw in everything but the kitchen sink in order to appeal to the widest consumer base.

Would the disc players also be backwards compatible with Bluray and DVD discs? I can't see ever giving up my MST3K DVD collection so I'll always need something to play those on.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Blu-ray will be backwards compatible but DVD...not sure. An opportunity to distance physical media one more notch.

4K should be a rather easy codec to allow.blu-ray disc playback.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

That's retarded if they're not including 3D capability out of the gate. I won't buy it until they do.

Yes, some Blu-Ray discs show compression artifacts, and gradient banding which wasn't so obvious on regular DVD. They need to remember that those of us who are sticking with discs rather than going to streaming are doing so because we CARE about quality.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

It'll play Blu-ray discs (and 3D BDs too!). Just not 3D in 4K. I have no idea why.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Yes, they do, but don't hold your breath.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Current Hollywood Blu-rays generally run at about 20-30 Megabit per second using the AVC codec. So, for UHD Blu-ray, if we quadruple that number (never mind the fact that we're not quadrupling the audio stream), we end up with 120 Mbps, if we were using AVC. But the HEVC codec affords a 40-50% encoding efficiency increase, so let's say we end up somewhere around 70 Mbps.

So, for a 3 hour movie at 70 Mbps, you end up using 88 GB. On a 100 GB triple-layer UHD Blu-ray, that's still plenty of room for a couple hours worth of HD documentary supplements.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

+1.

Unfortunately, I think history will argue against and many examples proven there are.

I just noticed I sound like Yoda.

Maybe SOME studios do care, but most don't give a flying fart. They'd rather give you a lot of Blu-ray discs, to convey the "heavyness" of a set, but find out even with only 2 episodes on each disc, the average bitrate is severely lacking.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Which will likely be dumped on a second standard BD disc anyway.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

The hardware manufacturers wanted to distance 4K players from 3-D tech, which they viewed as not receiving support in the marketplace.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Wow- that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Well, the discussion is academic anyway, considering that, on a good day, perhaps 5% of those who adopted Blu-ray will likely upgrade to 4k. I don't plan to unless some of my favorite catalog titles are released in the format. Odds are very low that we'll see films like BLADE RUNNER, THE TOWERING INFERNO, or THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN in 4k anytime soon.

Also, it remains to be seen just how efficient and / or 'artifacty' the first generation of 4k encodes will be. I'm not expecting them to showcase 4k to its highest standard, judging by some of the early (ie, badly compressed) DVDs and Blu-rays in 1995 and 2006 were.

So, there's the probability that 100 GB may barely be sufficient for a 4k encode in 2015, but will be stellar in 2020, once the compressionists have learned the best tweaks, etc for encoding 4k material. This has happened with Blu-rays, to the greater extent as the format has matured...

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

We didn't start getting great compression on Blu-ray until 2008 or 2009, once all the studios finally switched to AVC and the crossover studios stopped aiming their encodes for HD DVD.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

HDMI 1.4 is ready for 4k, right? Most blu-ray players and video cards support HDMI 1.4?

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I'm pretty sure you need HDMI 2.0 for 4k support.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

I think Blade Runner is a very strong possibility, as it appeals to the male geeky demographic that is more likely to adopt the format. It has also grown in stature over the years, even cracking the more recent AFI list.

BTW, the 2007 version was from a 4K master. I don't know if it holds up compared to more recent masters, but it's there.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Odds are actually quite good for Blade Runner, which has historically been one of Warners' go-to early releases for new formats and also already has a 4K master.

This is only a "probability" in your mind. I can understand your skepticism in light of historic precedent, but 100 GB is plenty sufficient for 4K encodes and the early ones out of the gate will not have visible artifacts issues. Encoding will of course continue to improve over time, but the initial standard will be a high one.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

Yes and no. HDMI 1.4 can pass 4K but is incompatible with encrypted 4K video. Also, without HDCP 2.2, if there were 4K 3D video, said video would lock at 1080p. That's the gist of what I read a while back.

re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray
 

If I'm not mistaken, there is no such thing as 4K 3D in theaters. It's either a single 2K projector with a alternating polarizing filter or a 4K projector presenting two 2K images at the same time and a special lens polarizes them. Even IMAX 3D is just two 2K projectors projecting at the same time. There's other 3D systems that use different wavelengths of RGB for each eye, but still just 2K. There's really no need for the 4K Blu-ray to support 3D. As long as the TV does, regular Blu-ray 3D will replicate what is in the theater.