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Old 09-01-11 | 09:49 AM
  #2151  
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re: Star Wars
Here's a funny post made on the blu-ray.com thread:

Originally Posted by C A Iversen
I wonder if it's possible that Lucas turned up at James Earl Jones' house and told him what scene he was planning to insert audio into and Jones basically said "No.....Noooooooo!"

And Lucas stood up and said, "that'll do nicely James" and walked out with his pocket recording device?
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Old 09-01-11 | 09:50 AM
  #2152  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by Ignohippo
Exactly. Once he releases the remastered originals he's done (besides 3d). It's the same thing he did with DVD - wait until the format's almost dead and then release the originals as a last gasp (he packaged them with re-releases of the SE's knowing we'd buy the same crap again just to get the originals) - and he'll do it again with blu-ray.

I bought the first DVD set (the silver 2004 set), but I would have gladly bought the versions with the originals had they been 16x9. I even remember when that was announced, I kinda did an eye-rolling, "that's my Lucas" kind of reaction, but I immediately put them in my DVDAficionado wishlist (I took them right out when the truth was revealed). But the point was I could have lived with that kind of double dip.

These Blu-rays never even made it to my DVDAf wishlist. I almost wish I had pre-ordered so I could cancel it also.

I'll live with my DVD versions, but I've also got three widescreen VHS sets and two different laserdisc sets of the originals. I can wait out Lucas.
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Old 09-01-11 | 09:51 AM
  #2153  
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re: Star Wars
This was mentioned on another forum about the changes, and things not corrected in ROTJ:

Spoiler:
Via MF Forums..

Still not fixed....

Return of the Jedi

01. Imperial Shuttle flickers as it leaves the Star Destroyer.
02. Garbage mattes around Imperial Shuttle and TIE Fighters still visible.
03. Reversed shots of Boba Fett still not fixed.
04. Boba Fett's rockets are still hand-animated and fake.
05. There is still no post on the Sail Barge to support Luke and Leia's rope swing.
06. Red text on Luke's screen in the X-Wing is still mis-aligned with the monitor.
07. When the Emperor arrives at the Death Star, the TIE Fighters are plagued with garbage mattes.
08. Garbage mattes on the Rebel Fleet.
09. Rebel hangar matte painting still looks fake and is mis-matched.
10. Horrible Millennium Falcon matte painting still behind Lando and Han.
11. As Shuttle Tyderium approaches Endor, the Endor matte painting shows through the Shuttle, and the Imperial ships as well.
12. When Han says "I told you it'll work", the Endor matte painting can be seen through the Shuttle's instrument panels.
13. Speeder Bike chase still has it's fake moments, and garbage mattes are more visible in high definition.
14. The horrible matte error that occurs when Luke says "I'll take these two" and hits the brakes is still there.
15. There are still bits of black windows in the throne room where there should be a moving starfield.
16. Ewok village matte problems still not fixed.
17. When Vader's Shuttle lands on Endor and he exits, his helmet still goes through the Shuttle's nose.
18. On the Endor platform when Luke is brought to Vader, the on-set model of the AT-AT, which is way too small, is still seen.
19. Garbage mattes still seen around Death Star and Rebel Fleet approaching Endor. A-Wing engines are no longer golden, but white. Falcon engines still white.
20. When Home One takes evasive action, the Endor matte painting can still be seen through the area around Admiral Ackbar's window and the Death Star.
21. In HD, the TIE's "coming from nowhere" are painfully obvious.
22. Endor space battle still plagued with the usual transparent explosions, mattes, etc.
23. The Rebel troop behind Nien Nunb aboard the Falcon is still shown laughing at the deaths of hundreds.
24. The shadow of Vader's stunt blade is still seen.
25. Garbage mattes really visible in HD inside the Death Star around Rebel craft and TIE's.



Changes noticed:

01. Static shot of droids approaching Jabba's palace door is now a wide pan with a huge door.
02. "Jedi Rocks" is still there and unchanged.
03. The Binary sunset still shows the suns setting.
04. Han's carbonite "thaw" has been replaced with CGI.
05. After Luke "Force chokes" the Gamorrean Guards, a prequel Dug walks across the floor where the residents are sleeping. It looks VERY fake, like it was "last minute."
06. The fake shadows and artificial darkness are still present in the Rancor sequence.
07. The plastic looking herd of Banthas is still there.
08. The 1997 SE fake looking beak, tongue, and tentacles are still present on the Sarlacc.
09. Luke's lightsaber blade is HUGE.
10. The Falcon and Luke's X-Wing look good as they depart Tatooine. No transparency.
11. No blue engine hue from the Falcon.
12. Luke's X-Wing engines are red with a white core.
13. When Obi-Wan appears to Luke on Dagobah in spirit form, his aura is white.
14. Rebel briefing graphics unchanged, but the reds are darker.
15. The Emperor's throne room is now a dull blue color. It is almost white now compared to the 2004 DVD blue.
16. The greenery of Endor's forest looks vibrant and greener than ever, but actually in a good way.
17. Wicket's blinking eyes.
18. The fine hair of the Chewbacca costume can really be seen in HD.
19. The first Wokling's eyes blink.
20. The colors are really off in the throne room.
21. The Emperor's "face slugs" are no longer visible.
22. The shield generator energy arcs can no longer be seen through Ben Burtt, and the stuntman in the next shot can still plainly be seen.
23. When R2-D2 malfunctions from the blaster shot, the sparks look like purple Force lightning instead of blue-white electrical colors.
24. The only time the lightsaber blades look decent is when they are crossed in front of the Emperor's face. The rest of the time, the colors and
brightness fluctuate like the 2004 DVD.
25. The color settings of this file make the Emperor's Force lightning look like it's from a VHS copy. There's no sharpness to it, like a filter is over it.
25. Vader's "NO's" have been added. The first sounds like it has been sloppily laid on top of the mix, the second is from ROTS.
26. Vader's unmasking is STILL Sebastian Shaw. Don't believe the idiots that say it's Hayden Christensen. At least, not on THIS MKV it isn't.
27. 1997 SE and 2004 version revisions, "Weesa free!", and Hayden Christensen still at the end.
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Old 09-01-11 | 09:59 AM
  #2154  
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re: Star Wars
It bears repeating: I'd settle for 16x9 DVDs of the 97 SE's at this point.
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Old 09-01-11 | 10:22 AM
  #2155  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by milo bloom
It bears repeating: I'd settle for 16x9 DVDs of the 97 SE's at this point.
No it doesn't.
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Old 09-01-11 | 10:33 AM
  #2156  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by Ignohippo
More power to you. You enjoy your shitty DVD versions for the next 10+ years.

I may throw up a little bit in my mouth every time one of these scenes comes on, but I'm not going to deny myself the chance to see the greatest movies of all time in beautiful HD clarity.
But that's just it - these aren't the greatest movies of all time any more (if they ever were). A piece of crap in HD is still piece of crap. A fart noise in 6.1 is still a fart noise.

I'm not trying to change Lucas' mind or start a boycott or anything. There's no way I'd be able to enjoy these movies with all the idiotic changes that have been made, so I am not going to buy the blu-rays. End of story.
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Old 09-01-11 | 10:36 AM
  #2157  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by GreenVulture
Yeah, really, what is with this shot? It has always bothered me, even when I was a kid. Could someone well-versed in special effects tell me why this is apparently impossible to fix in the 35 years since the original release?
Re: the fizzling out of Obi-Wan's lightsaber. If this is true... UNBELIEVABLE! That shot has bothered me for years as well and I was shocked even in 1997 that this wasn't changed. Crazy. The lightsaber basically turns into a fencing foil.

My take on all these changes (after 86 pages) as a former 'LucasFan': I'd be cool with whatever modifications he wants to make - heck, I might even be excited about them - if he just made proper restorations of the originals available. Folks wouldn't be as critical as they are now. Of course, with a legion of rear-smooching yes-men surrounding him, the outside criticism means nothing to him, and he continues to stand firmly in his film-history-defacing ways. His McCallums will tell him that it's just a small group of bitter fans that are crying foul on blogs and twitter. When you get as much criticism as Lucas has gotten - and God knows he's gotten a lot of shit since 1983, a great deal of it well-deserved - a survival mechanism kicks in and at a certain point you learn to phase it out.
That said, I think Lucas was receptive to criticism in 1999, based on the lack of Jar-Jar screentime in episodes 2 and 3. There were many other problems with episode 1, but none as obvious as Jar-Jar and practically every single newspaper and magazine review in the world noted it. He listened then.
Today, it's just a bunch of bitter purists. He doesn't care.
In his defense, we're asking him to spend a couple million on restorations that probably won't recoup the investment.

But, whatever. I'm taking the discussion back 50 pages. I pre-ordered the set and at least I've got those deleted scenes to look forward to.
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Old 09-01-11 | 11:16 AM
  #2158  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
This was mentioned on another forum about the changes, and things not corrected in ROTJ:

Spoiler:
Via MF Forums..

Still not fixed....

Return of the Jedi

01. Imperial Shuttle flickers as it leaves the Star Destroyer.
02. Garbage mattes around Imperial Shuttle and TIE Fighters still visible.
03. Reversed shots of Boba Fett still not fixed.
04. Boba Fett's rockets are still hand-animated and fake.
05. There is still no post on the Sail Barge to support Luke and Leia's rope swing.
06. Red text on Luke's screen in the X-Wing is still mis-aligned with the monitor.
07. When the Emperor arrives at the Death Star, the TIE Fighters are plagued with garbage mattes.
08. Garbage mattes on the Rebel Fleet.
09. Rebel hangar matte painting still looks fake and is mis-matched.
10. Horrible Millennium Falcon matte painting still behind Lando and Han.
11. As Shuttle Tyderium approaches Endor, the Endor matte painting shows through the Shuttle, and the Imperial ships as well.
12. When Han says "I told you it'll work", the Endor matte painting can be seen through the Shuttle's instrument panels.
13. Speeder Bike chase still has it's fake moments, and garbage mattes are more visible in high definition.
14. The horrible matte error that occurs when Luke says "I'll take these two" and hits the brakes is still there.
15. There are still bits of black windows in the throne room where there should be a moving starfield.
16. Ewok village matte problems still not fixed.
17. When Vader's Shuttle lands on Endor and he exits, his helmet still goes through the Shuttle's nose.
18. On the Endor platform when Luke is brought to Vader, the on-set model of the AT-AT, which is way too small, is still seen.
19. Garbage mattes still seen around Death Star and Rebel Fleet approaching Endor. A-Wing engines are no longer golden, but white. Falcon engines still white.
20. When Home One takes evasive action, the Endor matte painting can still be seen through the area around Admiral Ackbar's window and the Death Star.
21. In HD, the TIE's "coming from nowhere" are painfully obvious.
22. Endor space battle still plagued with the usual transparent explosions, mattes, etc.
23. The Rebel troop behind Nien Nunb aboard the Falcon is still shown laughing at the deaths of hundreds.
24. The shadow of Vader's stunt blade is still seen.
25. Garbage mattes really visible in HD inside the Death Star around Rebel craft and TIE's.



Changes noticed:

01. Static shot of droids approaching Jabba's palace door is now a wide pan with a huge door.
02. "Jedi Rocks" is still there and unchanged.
03. The Binary sunset still shows the suns setting.
04. Han's carbonite "thaw" has been replaced with CGI.
05. After Luke "Force chokes" the Gamorrean Guards, a prequel Dug walks across the floor where the residents are sleeping. It looks VERY fake, like it was "last minute."
06. The fake shadows and artificial darkness are still present in the Rancor sequence.
07. The plastic looking herd of Banthas is still there.
08. The 1997 SE fake looking beak, tongue, and tentacles are still present on the Sarlacc.
09. Luke's lightsaber blade is HUGE.
10. The Falcon and Luke's X-Wing look good as they depart Tatooine. No transparency.
11. No blue engine hue from the Falcon.
12. Luke's X-Wing engines are red with a white core.
13. When Obi-Wan appears to Luke on Dagobah in spirit form, his aura is white.
14. Rebel briefing graphics unchanged, but the reds are darker.
15. The Emperor's throne room is now a dull blue color. It is almost white now compared to the 2004 DVD blue.
16. The greenery of Endor's forest looks vibrant and greener than ever, but actually in a good way.
17. Wicket's blinking eyes.
18. The fine hair of the Chewbacca costume can really be seen in HD.
19. The first Wokling's eyes blink.
20. The colors are really off in the throne room.
21. The Emperor's "face slugs" are no longer visible.
22. The shield generator energy arcs can no longer be seen through Ben Burtt, and the stuntman in the next shot can still plainly be seen.
23. When R2-D2 malfunctions from the blaster shot, the sparks look like purple Force lightning instead of blue-white electrical colors.
24. The only time the lightsaber blades look decent is when they are crossed in front of the Emperor's face. The rest of the time, the colors and
brightness fluctuate like the 2004 DVD.
25. The color settings of this file make the Emperor's Force lightning look like it's from a VHS copy. There's no sharpness to it, like a filter is over it.
25. Vader's "NO's" have been added. The first sounds like it has been sloppily laid on top of the mix, the second is from ROTS.
26. Vader's unmasking is STILL Sebastian Shaw. Don't believe the idiots that say it's Hayden Christensen. At least, not on THIS MKV it isn't.
27. 1997 SE and 2004 version revisions, "Weesa free!", and Hayden Christensen still at the end.
I've never seen 90% of the problems listed...and I'm glad I haven't. I'm sure they are there, but I'm usually too involved watching the film to notice some of the little inconsistencies/errors.

I've never been a fan of any of the changes ('97, '04, '11). I will always prefer the original versions that I grew up watching and I would pay a premium for the original unaltered trilogy on Blu-ray. However, I just don't take Star Wars that seriously anymore to get all worked up about it. After my son was born, I started to completely mellow out about stuff like this. I hope we will get the UOT on BD someday, but I'm going to buy this release in the meantime. Sure, I'll cringe during certain scenes (Jabba in ANH, Jedi Rocks, Hayden's ghost, Vader leaving Cloud City, etc)...but I can still enjoy the films for what they are...and I'm charged to see a lot of the extras.

I don't know what to think about re-watching the Prequels though...I don't really enjoy any of them...even ROTS. "The Clone Wars" series is better than anything Lucas has put out in years...it's what the PT should have been in my opinion...
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Old 09-01-11 | 11:16 AM
  #2159  
Schloob1
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by skywalker8
In his defense, we're asking him to spend a couple million on restorations that probably won't recoup the investment.
Based on just those that post to all the forums worldwide, how would he not recoup the investment?

This would be a DAY 1 purchase for me that dare I say I would even pay MSRP of probably what $89.99 for say just the original trilogy restored? I imagine most here would as well, and I'm guessing at that MSRP it would probably be about $50 on release day. Unless you are talking more than say $10 million or so(you said a "couple") I don't see how he would not. And mind you I would buy the complete saga as well to have the PT and all the extras. Just as long as I knew I could also get, albeit seperately the UOT.
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Old 09-01-11 | 11:34 AM
  #2160  
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re: Star Wars
New R2 effects in ROTJ. Top shot is old, for comparison.
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Old 09-01-11 | 11:42 AM
  #2161  
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re: Star Wars
Shouldn't that have triggered his foot rockets so he zooms around Endor?

Oh, nevermind. This isn't 3D, yet.
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Old 09-01-11 | 11:45 AM
  #2162  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by pinata242
Shouldn't that have triggered his foot rockets so he zooms around Endor?

Oh, nevermind. This isn't 3D, yet.
C'mon, man. Don't give him more stupid ideas.

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I'm still getting the set. Are some of the changes bad? Yes. Are they bad enough to make me avoid the release? No. Noooooooo!
That's cool but for me the answer is "fuck yes!" I don't even have the OT on DVD and was hoping Lucas was either gonna leave the same old shitty alterations or perhaps even reverse some of them. Instead, he's made shittier alterations. This set isn't worth my money if I'm not gonna enjoy the movies.
Last edited by RocShemp; 09-01-11 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 09-01-11 | 11:57 AM
  #2163  
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re: Star Wars
I probably wouldn't notice or care (this much) about most of these changes, but the double "No" from Vader in ROTJ almost makes me want to pass simply because Lucas ruined one of the greatest scenes of the entire series.
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Old 09-01-11 | 12:05 PM
  #2164  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by LosingMyMind
New R2 effects in ROTJ. Top shot is old, for comparison.
I'm not seeing much of a difference? The bottom shot is just brighter and the color is a bit different. Even 3P0 looks different. Doesn't look like anything's changed, or am I missing something?

EDIT: I guess he is reflecting more light off certain surfaces. Huh, nice find...
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Old 09-01-11 | 12:12 PM
  #2165  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
I'm not seeing much of a difference? The bottom shot is just brighter and the color is a bit different. Even 3P0 looks different. Doesn't look like anything's changed, or am I missing something?

EDIT: I guess he is reflecting more light off certain surfaces. Huh, nice find...
There's more stuff popping out of his dome too.
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Old 09-01-11 | 12:23 PM
  #2166  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by LosingMyMind
There's more stuff popping out of his dome too.
Good thing we have Lucas around to make solid changes like this instead of making sure the lightsabers don't look like crap at random times...
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Old 09-01-11 | 12:26 PM
  #2167  
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re: Star Wars
^ Don't forget the extra rocks. Boy, if I had a dime for every time I've heard someone complain about the lack of rocks in Star Wars for the last 34 years...
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Old 09-01-11 | 12:54 PM
  #2168  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by pinata242
Hey, thanks for the kind words! If it's all the same to you, I think I'm going to just fall back and just use these again:

Imagine that, the titles are are correct.

Star Wars
Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars Return Of The Jedi

For some reason the Episode IV A New Hope and so on have bothered me.
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Old 09-01-11 | 12:54 PM
  #2169  
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re: Star Wars
These are not the movies I was looking for, I just cancelled my pre-order.
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Old 09-01-11 | 01:46 PM
  #2170  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
Do we know if there are any alterations to the prequels? I don't care about 'em, I'm just curious...
this was answered im sure, but i read too that Episode 1 Yoda is now 100% CGI to make it look like the other prequels
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Old 09-01-11 | 01:53 PM
  #2171  
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re: Star Wars
I too canceled my pre-order. With lackluster special features and the near certainty that the untampered originals would not be included, I was already on the fence. The new changes are just another in a long list of reasons not to buy. Maybe I'll pick it up used one day if nothing better comes along.
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Old 09-01-11 | 02:21 PM
  #2172  
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re: Star Wars
Originally Posted by nmr1723
However, I just don't take Star Wars that seriously anymore to get all worked up about it.
Damn right.

I started losing my interest in Star Wars the day tickets for Phantom Menace went on sale. I got there six hours before the theater opened. The line was already around the building. After I waited for two hours, I finally realized that the movie would be the same no matter when I saw it, so why spend half my day waiting in line?

And in the years since, I realized that there are way, way, way too many other films out there to spend so much time worrying about just three of them.

I'd pay $90 for the original films I love. But if they aren't available, fuck it. I'll watch something else.
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Old 09-01-11 | 02:27 PM
  #2173  
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re: Star Wars
I like how on other sites, people are making a list of THINGS THAT ARE NOT FIXED AND ADDED while bitching about the things that are FIXED AND ADDED.
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Old 09-01-11 | 02:32 PM
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re: Star Wars
Dear,

Your order has been successfully canceled. For your reference, here's a summary of your order:

You just canceled order #xxx-xxxxx-xxxxx placed on January 6, 2011.

Status: CANCELED

_____________________________________________________________________

1 of Star Wars: The Complete Saga (Episodes I-VI) [Blu-ray]
By: Mark Hamill, et al

Sold by: Amazon.com LLC

Cancelled Reason: Other -
George Lucas
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Old 09-01-11 | 02:37 PM
  #2175  
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re: Star Wars
A famous man once said...

To me, film is historical document and therefore it has practical value. People 500 years from now will look at our films and be able to figure out what we were like...They are technological extensions of, a derivation from, the comic strip.
and...

A copyright is held in trust by its owner until it ultimately reverts to public domain. American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.

People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society. The preservation of our cultural heritage may not seem to be as politically sensitive an issue as "when life begins" or "when it should be appropriately terminated," but it is important because it goes to the heart of what sets mankind apart. Creative expression is at the core of our humanness. Art is a distinctly human endeavor. We must have respect for it if we are to have any respect for the human race.

These current defacements are just the beginning. Today, engineers with their computers can add color to black-and-white movies, change the soundtrack, speed up the pace, and add or subtract material to the philosophical tastes of the copyright holder. Tommorrow, more advanced technology will be able to replace actors with "fresher faces," or alter dialogue and change the movement of the actor's lips to match. It will soon be possible to create a new "original" negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires. The copyright holders, so far, have not been completely diligent in preserving the original negatives of films they control. In order to reconstruct old negatives, many archivists have had to go to Eastern bloc countries where American films have been better preserved.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

The public's interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests. And the proof of that is that even a copyright law only permits the creators and their estate a limited amount of time to enjoy the economic fruits of that work.
and recently said...

As a filmmaker and a lover of cinema, I have always appreciated the many disciplines that go into making a film-- the props, the costumes, all the aspects that come together to make the whole as great as the sum of its parts. I have archived all the important pieces from my own films, and I am a staunch believer it's important that we all make an effort to preserve our cinematic heritage-- before it's too late.
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