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Star Wars

Old 08-16-10, 02:23 PM
  #126  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by AmityBoatTours View Post
As much as the aintitcoolnews generation might like to think they speak for the general movie going audience,Trust me they dont. all you need to do is look at the thousands and thousands of people who spent boatloads of money(not to mention the reception Lucas recieved) this weekend at celebration to see that that most people love star wars even with lucas altering the films.

but most who dont refuse to believe they are the only ones who hate these changes
HERE MOTHERFUCKING HERE!!!!!!

This is the penultimate post on this topic. If the SEs and Prequels (and now retrofitting back to RotJ) sucked then they wouldn't have made the money they made.
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Old 08-16-10, 02:26 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by MinLShaw View Post
I think there's more of a correlation there than we might like to believe or acknowledge, and I see this in how the industry panders to the spoiler-crazy crowd. There's virtually no sense anymore that anything will or even can remain a surprise for audiences, despite surprises being what we all really want in storytelling.

[off-topic rant]So far as I'm concerned, Harry Knowles has been a far more negative force in the world of film than anything Lucas has done retroactively. It seems harder and harder to avoid spoilers about a movie these days, and it seems to me that the spoiler-laden trailers reflect that obsession with knowing before seeing. The magic of storytelling is always luring in an audience and then taking them somewhere unexpected; thanks to Knowles, we're all too often told where we're headed as the lure.[/off-topic rant]
Not at all off topic, IMO. It is no accident that this phenomenon can be traced back almost exactly to the rise of the AIC robots that spew the same tired bullshit, never coming up with a coherent original idea of their own.
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Old 08-16-10, 02:27 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Kal-El View Post
I'm 99.9% you're getting that first one. When I saw Star Wars in concert and they showed the footage of the council meeting in Ep1, it was already a digital Yoda instead of the so-does-not-loook-like-Yoda puppet one.
I do not remember that. Did you see it very recently? I distinctly remember puppet yoda, as I was looking for that for this reason.
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Old 08-16-10, 02:31 PM
  #129  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I think a large appeal of the film re-release was simply seeing the original trilogy in theaters. It probably would've done nearly as well even if no changes or touch-ups had been done.

Also, at the time there was no reason to believe that the SE versions would become "definitive," and that Lucas wouldn't release the original, unaltered trilogy in other forms in the future. Up to that point, special editions of films were almost always secondary versions. The closest counterpart would be the Director's Cut of Blade Runner, which has supplanted the original cut for most, but even that film provides the original cut in anamorphic DVD and HD Blu-ray (and HD DVD).
Bolded for emphasis. I guess we're all suckers for not being cynical, jaded bastards back in 1995 and immediately thinking that Lucas was going to try to bury the original versions after that release. I've been able to pick up extra VHS and laserdisc copies of the originals (all widescreen), but I have no interest in half-assed DVDs, and I have little interest in the SE's on Bluray either.

I tell you, Lucas' half-assed treatment of his franchise has done more to dampen my love for these movies than any of the actual content issues. I would love to be excited for this Blu set, but I just can't do it.
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Old 08-16-10, 02:52 PM
  #130  
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re: Star Wars

I'm not a "Luca$ raped my childhood" person or anything close but for anybody to accept Greedo shooting first is just strange to me. It wasn't a technical limitation for the time, it wasn't extending a scene, it was pure and simply a character re-write from a guy that is older, has kids and probably wanted a warmer friendlier Han Solo then how he originally intended him to be.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:00 PM
  #131  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim View Post
This is the penultimate post on this topic.
If you meant penultimate as in second, what is it second to?

If the SEs and Prequels (and now retrofitting back to RotJ) sucked then they wouldn't have made the money they made.
Lots of movies that suck have made a lot of money. Transformers 2 had a bigger box office than Star Wars Episodes 2, 3, 5, and 6. Does that mean that Transformers 2 is better than those movies? Of course not.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:04 PM
  #132  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Timber View Post
I'm not a "Luca$ raped my childhood" person or anything close but for anybody to accept Greedo shooting first is just strange to me. It wasn't a technical limitation for the time, it wasn't extending a scene, it was pure and simply a character re-write from a guy that is older, has kids and probably wanted a warmer friendlier Han Solo then how he originally intended him to be.
Thank you. I can roll my eyes at the new busy backgrounds of Mos Eisley, cause I can kinda buy that Lucas may not have had enough money to make it look like that, but the Greedo shootout is, pardon the pun, character assassination pure and simple.


And regarding the public perception comments: not all of us may have seen the flaws right away, but that doesn't mean they weren't there, and it doesn't mean we can't later take a more mature look at the films and see their flaws.

ETA: Hell, as a kid I used to think Empire was the worst of the trilogy. As an adult, I can see that's it's the best, and not just because it's "dark", but because of how well it uses that "dark-ness" and how neatly that flows from the first movie.


And as for the comment about the spoiler culture, remember, surprises/twists only work once. What's far more important is how they affect the characters in the film and how well that stands up to repeat viewings. I don't watch The Empire Strikes Back to be surprised by Vader's reveal each time, I watch it for the journey of the characters.

Hell, I can still watch The Sixth Sense and enjoy it as a neat little story about a hurting kid and a grown up that just wants to help.

Last edited by milo bloom; 08-16-10 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:17 PM
  #133  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
Phantom Menace did have its criticizers though, but not often immediately after leaving the theater.
It's anecdotal, of course, but I distinctly recall standing around after the midnight screening and it was like watching people chew food that looked familiar, but tasted completely off from what they expected. Some fans tried to choke it down and go with it; I remember one vocal fan "spitting it out," asking the parking lot, "I waited all these years for that?!"

In general, though, I think most of the anger (whenever it emerged) resulted from too many fans expecting that Lucas had somehow filmed whatever it was they had imagined over the years.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:27 PM
  #134  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by MinLShaw View Post
In general, though, I think most of the anger (whenever it emerged) resulted from too many fans expecting that Lucas had somehow filmed whatever it was they had imagined over the years.
uh, sort of. I know I didn't have anything SPECIFIC in mind, but I'm sure we all just imagined an entertaining space actioner, and what we got was scene after scene of "YIPPPPIEEE!", boring political mumbo jumbo and a step-in-fetchit CGI annoyance that seemed to dominate the screen time.

in hindsight, I guess we all should have known... didn't Lucas always say that he filmed ep 4, 5, and 6 first because he knew it was "more marketable"?
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Old 08-16-10, 03:32 PM
  #135  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by TallGuyMe View Post
uh, sort of. I know I didn't have anything SPECIFIC in mind, but I'm sure we all just imagined an entertaining space actioner, and what we got was scene after scene of "YIPPPPIEEE!", boring political mumbo jumbo and a step-in-fetchit CGI annoyance that seemed to dominate the screen time.
Personally, I thought it was fairly entertaining (though the pod race went on too long for my tastes). I didn't find 7 year old Anakin's "Yippee!" any more bothersome than comparable enthusiasm in 16 year old Luke in A New Hope, and the "political mumbo jumbo" was actually my favorite part about the Prequels. I enjoyed having a sense of the actual environment in which all these events originated and occurred.

But then, in 1999 when the movie opened we were nearing the end of the sixth season of Deep Space Nine. Fake space politics fascinated me tremendously.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:33 PM
  #136  
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re: Star Wars

I can only offer my personal experience when it comes to seemingly continued fan approval by getting $$$ at the box office, (and in every possible home incarnation, including this new one eventually) or lack of immediate complaining, or still supporting Lucas at Celebration, or what have you....It's F'ing Star Wars man.

This is the stacked 6 foot beautiful blonde amazon bitch-girlfriend of movies....she can treat me like shit every day of the week and I will still line up for more, and no, I will never learn my lesson. Call it a character defect or whatever. That's the way it is. Doesn't mean I like it though!

I think that's the way it is for a lot of people. Does that represent the "general movie going public" people seem to be going back and forth on...I bet it does to a degree...how much, I couldn't venture a guess.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:37 PM
  #137  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by GoldenWheels View Post
[Star Wars] is the stacked 6 foot beautiful blonde amazon bitch-girlfriend of movies....she can treat me like shit every day of the week and I will still line up for more, and no, I will never learn my lesson.
That's signature material!
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Old 08-16-10, 03:46 PM
  #138  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by MinLShaw View Post
Personally, I thought it was fairly entertaining (though the pod race went on too long for my tastes). I didn't find 7 year old Anakin's "Yippee!" any more bothersome than comparable enthusiasm in 16 year old Luke in A New Hope, and the "political mumbo jumbo" was actually my favorite part about the Prequels. I enjoyed having a sense of the actual environment in which all these events originated and occurred.

But then, in 1999 when the movie opened we were nearing the end of the sixth season of Deep Space Nine. Fake space politics fascinated me tremendously.
I've said for years I don't have a big issue with the overall story of the prequels, I too enjoyed seeing the political machinations that led to the OT (I also enjoyed that part of nuBSG, take that how you will). My problem has always been with the execution.

Originally Posted by GoldenWheels View Post
I can only offer my personal experience when it comes to seemingly continued fan approval by getting $$$ at the box office, (and in every possible home incarnation, including this new one eventually) or lack of immediate complaining, or still supporting Lucas at Celebration, or what have you....It's F'ing Star Wars man.

This is the stacked 6 foot beautiful blonde amazon bitch-girlfriend of movies....she can treat me like shit every day of the week and I will still line up for more, and no, I will never learn my lesson. Call it a character defect or whatever. That's the way it is. Doesn't mean I like it though!
Continuing with the BSG reference, it's like Baltar's head-Six. She drags him around by the nostrils and he keeps coming back for more.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:46 PM
  #139  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post

Lots of movies that suck have made a lot of money. Transformers 2 had a bigger box office than Star Wars Episodes 2, 3, 5, and 6. Does that mean that Transformers 2 is better than those movies? Of course not.
Of course it doesnt but Transformers 2 also had the benifit of higher ticket prices and even higher IMAX ticket prices. Not to mention quite a bit has changed from when phantom Menace and Transformers2 opened.
Transformers 2 was very much front loaded on its ticket sales and each weekend fell of dramaticly. indicating a huge dissatisfaction with the film.

where as the TPM biggest drop off was 43% in sept of 99 a whole 4 months after it opened up, where as Transformers fell 61 percent the second weekend 42% the second weekend 43% the third weekend

Stars wars opened on aprox 3,000 screens where as transformers 2 opened on almost 4,300 screens.

further more phantom meance played on screens until the start of Feb 2000, where as Transformers 2 was out of theatres by october of 2009.

If there was really that much hate for the Phantom Menace then it wouldnt have played in theatres for 8 months.

Now iam not saying Phantom menace doesnt have its flaws, cause it does but for the average movie going public that film and the special editions are not hated. cause they wouldnt have played as long as they did if that was the case.

Last edited by AmityBoatTours; 08-16-10 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:51 PM
  #140  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by MinLShaw View Post
That's signature material!
Haha totally true statement in my case MinL. I strongly disliked most of the changes made to the OT, still saw them each 3 times in the theater (discounting viewing done in other states of, er, consciousness). It was Star Wars on a big screen, it was a freakin' event--even if the changes sucked!

Hated the first two prequels, still saw them twice each because I felt they "deserved another shot" (why..because they were Star Wars! No other reason necessary!) and I wanted to get the mythos down. Third one was a three timer.

I'll buy the BRs, even of the version I DON'T want. Because some sickness tells me I NEED the OT in HD. Why? No clue! But they'd be "missing" if I didn't have them!

If I saw Lucas in person or at a convention...would I hate on him for changing my favorite movies or thank him for giving them to me in the first place? I'd thank him, and probably geek the f out while doing so!

This franchise has me wrapped around it's little finger...and I obviously a lot of others too. So to me looking to box office numbers as some sign of approval of the OT changes or even of the prequels themselves, doesn't add up. They had my money the minute they announced the movies, before I knew what I liked or didn't.
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Old 08-16-10, 03:54 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post



Continuing with the BSG reference, it's like Baltar's head-Six. She drags him around by the nostrils and he keeps coming back for more.
My nostril is all stretched out, along with my wallet, and I'll be buying the BRs ASAP. I might as well send Lucas the check now.
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Old 08-16-10, 04:18 PM
  #142  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by droidguy1119 View Post
- The added Vader Empire scene, if only because, even though it apparently is, it absolutely does not sound like James Earl Jones.
That, and the fact that the original delivery was perfect. "Bring my shuttle..." He sounded so downright pissed, was awesome. Now we have some crap about "Alert my star destroyer, to prepare for my arrival," followed by scenes of him actually landing, totally ruining the pacing. Plus, "my star destroyer" just sounds weird. He could have at least said "The Executor" or something. I'll shutup now...
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Old 08-16-10, 04:29 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Timber View Post
I'm not a "Luca$ raped my childhood" person or anything close but for anybody to accept Greedo shooting first is just strange to me. It wasn't a technical limitation for the time, it wasn't extending a scene, it was pure and simply a character re-write from a guy that is older, has kids and probably wanted a warmer friendlier Han Solo then how he originally intended him to be.
Yet, he writes Anakin Skywalker as a child-killer in Episode III! Kinda-ironic!
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Old 08-16-10, 04:36 PM
  #144  
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re: Star Wars

anyone else think Lucas has an hour of leftover footage from EACH film, and will continue to release dribs and drabs of it for every subsequent format release right up until we hit holodeck territory?
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Old 08-16-10, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AmityBoatTours View Post
As much as the aintitcoolnews generation might like to think they speak for the general movie going audience,Trust me they dont. all you need to do is look at the thousands and thousands of people who spent boatloads of money(not to mention the reception Lucas recieved) this weekend at celebration to see that that most people love star wars even with lucas altering the films.
Heres the deal, everyone on the internet, everyone at this Star Wars celebration IS in the minority. Star Wars has a huge fanbase, and most people don't even think about the movies anymore, even though they still love them.

I have loads of friends who grew up loving Star Wars, and NONE of them post on the internet, and none of them even knew there was a SW celebration this weekend.

As for the SE/OOT, the polarization on the internet is nothing for what the majority think. EVERYONE I know who is a Star Wars fan PREFERS the OOT, but will buy this set if it includes the Special Editions. They don't like most of the changes, but they love the movies too much, and put up with the changes.

Again, I never take anything that is said on the internet by some fanboy (including myself) or these losers at the Star Wars celebration as gospel for the movies. 95% of the fans have moved on and will probably buy this set come next year and will watch them when they are on Spike TV.
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Old 08-16-10, 08:33 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by AmityBoatTours View Post
Of course it doesnt but Transformers 2 also had the benifit of higher ticket prices and even higher IMAX ticket prices. Not to mention quite a bit has changed from when phantom Menace and Transformers2 opened.
I didn't say it beat TPM, that one is still above Transformers 2, even not adjusted for inflation.

However, if you do adjust for inflation, Transformers 2 still did better than Attack of the Clones.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Transformers 2 was very much front loaded on its ticket sales and each weekend fell of dramaticly. indicating a huge dissatisfaction with the film.
Or, since it opened on more screens and did more box office on its first weekend, it could mean that most of the target audience saw it that first weekend.

The point I'm making is that box-office performance is not an indicator of quality. Bad movies make money all the time, while excellent movies can bomb at the box office, or even sometimes go straight to video. All box office proves is that a lot of people went to see it.
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Old 08-16-10, 09:12 PM
  #147  
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re: Star Wars

Shame these'll only be at best the 2004 special editions.

Oh and...



Curse you, Lucas!

EDIT: This is cool.


Last edited by RocShemp; 08-16-10 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 08-16-10, 09:48 PM
  #148  
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re: Star Wars

Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post
EDIT: This is cool.
No cool enough to justify that reaction.
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Old 08-16-10, 10:18 PM
  #149  
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re: Star Wars

Han and Greedo now shoot at almost the same exact time in the recent updated version (I believe it's a 2 frame difference with Greedo shooting first). It's pretty negligible, I mean that would be crazy reaction time from Han, or maybe the Force is strong with him. Not to mention Lucas kept the shots in of Han getting his gun ready to fire. No matter what people think the new addition does to Han's character, he has every intention of using his gun.

I think a far bigger offense is the inclusion of the Jabba scene, mostly because of the redundancy of it.
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Old 08-16-10, 11:15 PM
  #150  
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Maybe there's still some hope. I think Celebrations VI will be in 2013 for 30-yr anniversary of ROTJ. I would like Lucas to announce blu-rays of the originals there, espesically since the live-action series seems to be DOA.
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