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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by akrate69
(Post 9915996)
LPCM is part of the BD spec and it's lossless.
So, by GizmoDVD's logic, I should be pissed off by the BD basic spec, since I'd have to upgrade my hardware to get the full benefit of it. |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 9916409)
You can't bitstream more than 2.0 PCM over optical or coaxial digital so my receiver can't handle 5.1 PCM audio either.
So, by GizmoDVD's logic, I should be pissed off by the BD basic spec, since I'd have to upgrade my hardware to get the full benefit of it. Personally, I like having features that I can opt to take advantage of in the future. My problem is, when I went to see Polar Express 3D at an Imax theater back when it came out, I could only watch for about a half hour at a time. I'd then have to take the glasses off for a couple minutes. I just went to see A Christmas Carol 3D recently at the same Imax. This time I lasted well over an hour before I had to rest my eyes. So I'm in no hurry to get b3d, and I'll probably find a relative or friend, if I can, to try it out with first. |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 9916409)
You can't bitstream more than 2.0 PCM over optical or coaxial digital so my receiver can't handle 5.1 PCM audio either.
So, by GizmoDVD's logic, I should be pissed off by the BD basic spec, since I'd have to upgrade my hardware to get the full benefit of it. |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Spiky
(Post 9916697)
Why not buy a compatible player in the first place, then?
akrate69, after some reconsidering, I see your point about PCM. It is part of the basic spec, so anyone who bought BD players at launch would at least know what player they would need to get to have 5.1 uncompressed sound with their setup. I still think my point about the lossless codecs TrueHD and DTS-HD stand though: that they're optional extensions to BD that are backwards compatible (DTS core or alternate DD track), same as with B3D. |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Spiky
(Post 9916697)
Why not buy a compatible player in the first place, then?
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 9916786)
I only bought into Blu-ray because I got the player for so cheap. I'm not too concerned about lossless, although I'm planning on upgrading my receiver at some point for lossless audio and HDMI switching and upconverting.
akrate69, after some reconsidering, I see your point about PCM. It is part of the basic spec, so anyone who bought BD players at launch would at least know what player they would need to get to have 5.1 uncompressed sound with their setup. I still think my point about the lossless codecs TrueHD and DTS-HD stand though: that they're optional extensions to BD that are backwards compatible (DTS core or alternate DD track), same as with B3D. |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by akrate69
(Post 9917422)
Yes, it was great to give us lossless sound with our current receiver, before TrueHD and DTS-HD MA decoders were in any equipment. They knew how many of us (by sales numbers) had receivers with multichannel inputs. What sucks is they didn't include the multichannel outputs on more blu players, or educate us a little better.
Absoltely, and because they're compressed and decoders are in most everything now, the LPCM track isn't used much anymore (if at all? maybe some music discs?). |
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
(Post 9917442)
Multi-channel outputs is additional hardware which would mean a higher pricetag. Typically the 'premium' version each player has it (S560 over the S360 etc.). This is needed less and less and people upgrade to HDMI receivers. I think most of the Gen1 players had it though...
One problem with the analog output, of what few players that had it, is poor or no speaker control options, since this cannot usually be done at the receiver level with analog. When using analog, the player should allow the adjustment of individual speaker distance (delay), speaker volume, and low frequency crossover setting. Except for a few high-end models, most Blu-ray Disc players that had analog outs did not have a good slate of speaker controls. Now that HDMI receivers are common, BD players with analog output are becoming increasingly rare. The idea is that one is supposed to throw away one's old HT receiver and buy a new one with the latest HDMI handling capability. What a waste. [/Technical note:] |
I found this report from the CES by an IGN reporter interesting:
CES 2010: Avatar 3D vs. Avatar 3D Which fares better: the theatrical or Blu-ray 3D version? [T]he 3D experience I had with Panasonic's home theater equipment was far superior to what I witnessed in theater. |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by lizard
(Post 9934668)
I found this report from the CES by an IGN reporter interesting:
CES 2010: Avatar 3D vs. Avatar 3D Which fares better: the theatrical or Blu-ray 3D version? |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Teremei
(Post 9939013)
Perhaps it was just the screen was smaller and image looked better. And since the image was sharper and smaller the 3D seemed to reach outta the screen more than in a large theatre screen.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
After seeing the Samsung Series 7 3D TV the other day (at the AVN show, 3D boobs!!!) I am definitely looking forward to this technology at home - thought the image looked great.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
I personally only have interest in this for front projector in my HT playing movies. Watching any sort of TV on it doesn't appeal to me, minus maybe a little Discovery channel.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by steebo777
(Post 9940401)
I personally only have interest in this for front projector in my HT playing movies. Watching any sort of TV on it doesn't appeal to me, minus maybe a little Discovery channel.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Drexl
(Post 9940564)
I wonder what all the news tickers and station bugs would look like in 3D. Would they be even more distracting?
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Will we need LCD goggles that plug into the TV or BD player in order to view this new 3D technology? If so, why? If we can see Real 3D (whatever it's called) in theaters with cheap plastic glasses, why won't they work at home?
If LCD goggles are needed, will TV's or BD players allow more than one set of goggles to plug into them? I assume they'll be expensive at first, so how realistic is it that a family of 4 will embrace this new tehcnology if they have to buy 4 expensive pairs of goggles? Is this the same technology the Sega Master System used with its 3D games and LCD goggles? I'm also not clear why a special HDTV is needed. Does a 3D BD have a double image of the movie on it? If so, does that mean a normal HDTV can't display it? Why not? What's different about this new 3D compared to the old red/green 3D that prevents a normal HDTV from displaying it? Doesn't the red/green 3D have a double image too? Thanks! |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe
(Post 9943398)
Will we need LCD goggles that plug into the TV or BD player in order to view this new 3D technology?
If so, why? If we can see Real 3D (whatever it's called) in theaters with cheap plastic glasses, why won't they work at home? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealD_Cinema Something similar is possible for LCD, but it needs to be built into the LCD itself, and is more expensive. http://gizmodo.com/5084121/giz-explains-3d-technologies If LCD goggles are needed, will TV's or BD players allow more than one set of goggles to plug into them? I assume they'll be expensive at first, so how realistic is it that a family of 4 will embrace this new tehcnology if they have to buy 4 expensive pairs of goggles? http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/3dsyst1.html http://www.amazon.com/nVidia-GeForce.../dp/B001PV6MCS http://xpand.tv/XpanD-3D-Stereoscopi...B001CQNP5I.htm Is this the same technology the Sega Master System used with its 3D games and LCD goggles? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Ma...pe_3-D_Glasses I'm also not clear why a special HDTV is needed. Or, the BD player could output the 3D image at 48hz for theatrical features, which is a refresh rate current displays were not designed to handle. Even if the display could handle the refresh rates, it might not necessarily know that it's a 3D signal being sent. HDMI 1.4 spec contains a 3D implementation, but most current TVs are only HDMI 1.3 compliant. Does a 3D BD have a double image of the movie on it? If so, does that mean a normal HDTV can't display it? Why not? What's different about this new 3D compared to the old red/green 3D that prevents a normal HDTV from displaying it? Doesn't the red/green 3D have a double image too? The new B3D keeps the two images stored separately and sends them to the display as two separate images, leaving it to the display to decide how to display the two images as a 3D effect. So with B3D, you could display using polarized lenses, shutter glasses, or any other method display manufacturers come up with now or in the future (even as an analglyph, potentially). With the current anaglyph 3D images on DVDs and BD, you're stuck with viewing it only with colored glasses, even if you had a display compatible with another form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_image |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe
(Post 9943398)
Is this the same technology the Sega Master System used with its 3D games and LCD goggles?
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 9943771)
Depending on the TV, possibly. They don't necessarily have to "plug in" though; there are wireless versions.
Real 3D uses circular polarization, where two opposite polarizing filters are alternately placed over the projector lens. For front or rear projection, this method may work (although I'm not so sure about rear). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealD_Cinema Something similar is possible for LCD, but it needs to be built into the LCD itself, and is more expensive. http://gizmodo.com/5084121/giz-explains-3d-technologies Yes. Most Transmitters for the shutter glasses are wireless now, so a near unlimited number of glasses could be used with them. With wired glasses, the wire could be split, since communication is only one-way (to the glasses). 3D systems already exist, although they are niche products. Prices range from under $100 to over $1000: http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/3dsyst1.html http://www.amazon.com/nVidia-GeForce.../dp/B001PV6MCS http://xpand.tv/XpanD-3D-Stereoscopi...B001CQNP5I.htm SMS used shutter glasses, but configured for interlaced TV, and limited to the 60hz refresh rate of NTSC (meaning each eye was seeing half a screen at 30 times a second). Modern shutter glasses work with progressive displays, and typically 120hz, although this could be advanced in the future to 240hz or higher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Ma...pe_3-D_Glasses The HDTV has to know how to handle the 3D image it's receiving. At the least, it has to be able to accept a 120hz signal (if that's what the BD player is sending), most HDTVs max out at 60hz input, even 120hz displays (they double the refresh rate internally). Or, the BD player could output the 3D image at 48hz for theatrical features, which is a refresh rate current displays were not designed to handle. Even if the display could handle the refresh rates, it might not necessarily know that it's a 3D signal being sent. HDMI 1.4 spec contains a 3D implementation, but most current TVs are only HDMI 1.3 compliant. The B3D spec stores two separate images, one for each eye, for each frame of the video. A normal HDTV will be able to display one of the two images normally, so it'll play like a standard BD. Anaglyphic images are a single image with two colors superimposed over each other on it. These images "work" on any display, but once superimposed, you can't (easily) extract the two originally separate images. The new B3D keeps the two images stored separately and sends them to the display as two separate images, leaving it to the display to decide how to display the two images as a 3D effect. So with B3D, you could display using polarized lenses, shutter glasses, or any other method display manufacturers come up with now or in the future (even as an analglyph, potentially). With the current anaglyph 3D images on DVDs and BD, you're stuck with viewing it only with colored glasses, even if you had a display compatible with another form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_image |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
(Post 9944083)
You are the first person I have seen mention this. Ever since this talk started, I was thinking how this was implemented with the SMS. The effect was pretty cool.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe
(Post 9945141)
I thought maybe they were just resurrecting that old technology.
Polarized stereoscopic pictures have been around since 1936, when Edwin H. Land first applied it to motion pictures. The so called "3-D movie craze" in the years 1952 through 1955 was almost entirely offered in theaters using polarizing projection and glasses. However, the first shutter glasses were used back in 1922: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_film#Eclipse_method So most of the 3D viewing methods being used today are "old tech," just greatly refined. |
Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
FWIW, the new 3D players sound like they will have one or two pairs of the glasses in the box.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Engadget has reported that the PS3 is getting a 3D firmware upgrade in the summer, not just for Blu-ray movies, but for video games as well.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
(Post 9992829)
Engadget has reported that the PS3 is getting a 3D firmware upgrade in the summer, not just for Blu-ray movies, but for video games as well.
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done
See, I'd imagine games would be much harder, because you'd have to factor in so much more than in a movie. In a film, once you've set the 3D, there's never a need for it to change, because the movie will remain the same no matter how many times you play it. But I have much more free reign in a video game. I'm not sure how they'd set up 3D in a first person shooter, for example, where you can walk all the way around an object, right up to walls, etc.
Apparently several Sony standalone BD players will receive a 3D update at the same time. |
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