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CES: 3D Spec is finally done

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CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Old 12-20-09, 11:27 PM
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CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Blu-ray Disc Association Announces Final 3D Specification

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) today announced the finalization and release of the “Blu-ray 3DTM” specification. The specification, which represents the work of the leading Hollywood studios and consumer electronic and computer manufacturers, will enable the home entertainment industry to bring the 3D experience into consumers’ living rooms on Blu-ray Disc, the most capable high definition home entertainment platform.

“Throughout this year, movie goers have shown an overwhelming preference for 3D when presented with the option to see a theatrical release in either 3D or 2D”
“Throughout this year, movie goers have shown an overwhelming preference for 3D when presented with the option to see a theatrical release in either 3D or 2D,” said Victor Matsuda, chairman, BDA Global Promotions Committee. “We believe this demand for 3D content will carry over into the home now that we have, in Blu-ray Disc, a medium that can deliver a quality Full HD 3D experience to the living room.”

The “Blu-ray 3D” specification fully leverages the technical advantages of the Blu-ray Disc format to deliver unmatched picture quality as well as uniformity and compatibility across the full range of Blu-ray 3D products, both hardware and software. Notably, the specification allows every Blu-ray 3D player and movie to deliver Full HD 1080p resolution to each eye, thereby maintaining the industry leading image quality to which Blu-ray Disc viewers are accustomed. Moreover, the specification is display agnostic, meaning that Blu-ray 3D products will deliver the 3D image to any compatible 3D display, regardless of whether that display uses LCD, Plasma or other technology and regardless of what 3D technology the display uses to deliver the image to the viewer’s eyes.

“From a technological perspective, it is simply the best available platform for bringing 3D into the home,” said Benn Carr, chairman, BDA 3D Task Force. “The disc capacity and bit rates Blu-ray Disc provides enable us to deliver 3D in Full HD 1080p high definition resolution.”

The Blu-ray 3D specification is also designed to allow PS3 game consoles to play back Blu-ray 3D content in 3D. Additionally, the specification supports playback of 2D discs in forthcoming 3D players and can enable 2D playback of Blu-ray 3D discs on the large installed base of Blu-ray Disc players currently in homes around the world.

“In 2009 we saw Blu-ray firmly establish itself as the most rapidly adopted packaged media format ever introduced,” said Matsuda. “We think the broad and rapid acceptance Blu-ray Disc already enjoys with consumers will be a factor in accelerating the uptake of 3D in the home. In the meantime, existing players and libraries can continue to be fully enjoyed as consumers consider extending into 3D home entertainment.”

The Blu-ray 3D specification calls for encoding 3D video using the Multiview Video Coding (MVC) codec, an extension to the ITU-T H.264 Advanced Video Coding (AVC) codec currently supported by all Blu-ray Disc players. MPEG4-MVC compresses both left and right eye views with a typical 50% overhead compared to equivalent 2D content, and can provide full 1080p resolution backward compatibility with current 2D Blu-ray Disc players. The specification also incorporates enhanced graphic features for 3D. These features provide a new experience for users, enabling navigation using 3D graphic menus and displaying 3D subtitles positioned in 3D video.

The completed specification will be available shortly and provides individual manufacturers and content providers with the technical information and guidelines necessary to develop, announce and bring products to market pursuant to their own internal planning cycles and timetables.

About Blu-ray DiscTM

Blu-ray DiscTM is the next-generation optical disc format for high definition audio-video and high-capacity data software applications. A single-layer Blu-ray Disc holds up to 25 gigabytes of data and a double-layer Blu-ray Disc holds up to 50 gigabytes of data.

About the Blu-ray Disc Association

The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is responsible for promoting and developing business opportunities for Blu-ray Disc - the next-generation optical disc format for storing high-definition movies, games, photos and other digital content. The BDA has more than 180 members. Its Board of Directors consists of individuals affiliated with the following companies: Apple Inc., Dell Inc., Hewlett-Packard Company, Hitachi, Ltd., Intel Corporation, LG Electronics Inc., Mitsubishi Electric Corporation, Panasonic Corporation, Pioneer Corporation, Royal Philips Electronics, Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd., Sharp Corporation, Sony Corporation, Sun Microsystems, Inc., TDK Corporation, Thomson, Twentieth Century Fox, Walt Disney Pictures and Television, and Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

Blu-ray Disc Association at ICES 2010

To schedule a 1:1 briefing with a Blu-ray Disc Association executive during the 2010 International Consumer Electronics
Old 12-21-09, 12:16 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Is this how they're going to get us to double dip all our movies yet again?

DVD -> Blu-ray -> 3D Blu-ray

*sigh
Old 12-21-09, 12:52 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

A) When will the TVs capable of displaying 3D come out?

B) What will they cost?
Old 12-21-09, 02:50 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

i think you just need a 120hz hdtv + a 3dbd capable player.
Old 12-21-09, 04:30 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

I don't think it's as simple as JUST a 120hz HDTV... I think it also has to be "3D Ready" to work with the special glasses.

"3D Ready" TVs are already out there.
Old 12-21-09, 05:00 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

PS3 has a correct spec. So I don't need to buy BD 3D player.
Old 12-21-09, 05:23 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

3D from BD will mean either half bandwidth video data or half res image quality (standard data rate into two interlaced 540 line images) to get the 3D.

Call me old fashioned but I'm really not excited. The last two 3D features I watched (Up and Avatar) just made it seem like was 3D in a small box in front of the screen as opposed to 2D where it looks like a flat window into a larger world. (And I saw them on the largest Imax screen in the world)
Old 12-21-09, 08:06 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

are you sure it has to be "3D ready"? I bought a 67" Sammy DLP last year. Now it's 120hz but it didn't have any big "3D ready" sticker on it. Really those large Mitsubishi's were the only TVs I ever saw blatantly advertising 3D ready.

I really hope my TV is capable, I really like it and I don't have the money for another one. And I NEED 3D. :P

Anyway to find out (now) if our TV is ready by looking at our specs? Or is that still not fully determined?
Old 12-21-09, 09:16 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Not excited about this gimmick.

How about they spend some time fixing the current 2D spec so you can play any BD movie on any BD player without having to keep upgrading/downgrading the firmware?
Old 12-21-09, 09:26 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by Coral View Post
Not excited about this gimmick.

How about they spend some time fixing the current 2D spec so you can play any BD movie on any BD player without having to keep upgrading/downgrading the firmware?
Pfft, now you're being ridiculous.
Old 12-21-09, 09:47 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
are you sure it has to be "3D ready"? I bought a 67" Sammy DLP last year. Now it's 120hz but it didn't have any big "3D ready" sticker on it. Really those large Mitsubishi's were the only TVs I ever saw blatantly advertising 3D ready.
The TV will need to be able to accept a 120 Hz input signal. Most 120 Hz TVs only accept up to 60 Hz and then increase the frame rate internally.
Old 12-21-09, 10:08 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by HumanMedia View Post
3D from BD will mean either half bandwidth video data or half res image quality (standard data rate into two interlaced 540 line images) to get the 3D.
As per the article, the video will be 1080p for both images, and will take up 1.5x more space than 2D 1080p on the BD. From what I can gather, the MVC encoding uses interpolation and bases the image for the 2nd eye off of the image for the 1st eye, since the two image are typically only slightly different.

As for bandwidth, HDMI 1.4 allows for images of up to 4k, so two 1080p images streaming through it shouldn't be a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiview_Video_Coding

Originally Posted by HumanMedia View Post
Call me old fashioned but I'm really not excited. The last two 3D features I watched (Up and Avatar) just made it seem like was 3D in a small box in front of the screen as opposed to 2D where it looks like a flat window into a larger world. (And I saw them on the largest Imax screen in the world)
Haven't seen Avatar, but I saw UP in 3D, and it was exactly as you describe the 2D image, a "window into a larger world." I don't recall any images that came out of the screen, rather all the 3D lead into the world, giving it more depth. My wife got vertigo during some of the high-flying sequences, and this was in a regular theater.


Originally Posted by Coral View Post
How about they spend some time fixing the current 2D spec so you can play any BD movie on any BD player without having to keep upgrading/downgrading the firmware?
I don't think that's a problem with the current spec, but a problem with the current players' implementations of the spec. The same thing happened with early DVD players in regards to features like seamless branching; the difference being that most of those early DVD players didn't get firmware updates to fix the problems.

As for AACS breaking certain players compatibility and requiring an upgrade, that's actually part of the BD spec, and is how its supposed to work (thanks to certain paranoid studios).
Old 12-21-09, 10:22 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Way to slow down BD adoption, BDA! This is only going to serve to increase apprehension for those sitting on the fence. Though this will probably never even catch on. Especially not since all new hardware is required and you still have to wear those stupid glasses.

Seems each generation rediscovers 3D, only to put it back away a couple of years later when the gimmick gets old.

My interest might be increased the day that all movies and TV shows are shot for 3D and you don't have to wear glasses. But that's not going to happen. At least not in my lifetime.
Old 12-21-09, 10:48 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by Eddie W View Post
Way to slow down BD adoption, BDA! This is only going to serve to increase apprehension for those sitting on the fence. Though this will probably never even catch on. Especially not since all new hardware is required and you still have to wear those stupid glasses....
...unless you already have a PS3 and a 3D-ready TV. Even then, the 3D BD is still backwards-compatible to 2D BD players and displays. So it's no worse than the current BDs or DVDs that have an alternate anaglyphic 3D version on them.

Seems each generation rediscovers 3D, only to put it back away a couple of years later when the gimmick gets old.
The argument for the new 3D is that all the old implementations of 3D had technological issues (image sync, viewing angle, image stabilization, cost of film) that modern digital filming and projection all but eliminate. The incremental cost of creating a 3D version of a fully-CGI film will probably ensure that 3D presentations stick around for at least that genre of film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_D_Cinema

My interest might be increased the day that all movies and TV shows are shot for 3D and you don't have to wear glasses.
It's doubtful that all movies and TV shows will be shot in 3D any time soon. However, do you think you'd have only been interested in color TV once all movies and TV shows were shot in color (which isn't even true today, at least for film)?

As for spec-less 3DTVs, there are already prototypes:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/04/20/tmdt_3d/
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/09..._philips_3dtv/
Old 12-21-09, 11:41 AM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

So that 50GB Disc that was once touted by Blu supporters as having so much room to produce better encodes over HD DVDs 30GB Disc now won't be because a good portion will be taken up by the 3D 'version'. Wonderful. Pass. No interest in the gimmick.
Old 12-21-09, 12:18 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I don't think that's a problem with the current spec, but a problem with the current players' implementations of the spec. The same thing happened with early DVD players in regards to features like seamless branching; the difference being that most of those early DVD players didn't get firmware updates to fix the problems.

As for AACS breaking certain players compatibility and requiring an upgrade, that's actually part of the BD spec, and is how its supposed to work (thanks to certain paranoid studios).
Whoever's at fault, there has to be set standard of the spec so no manufacturer's can implement it differently. I was an early adopter of DVD and with all the players I've used with a buttload of movies played - I haven't had one retail DVD fail to play (the same goes for anyone I personally know). So early on we had some players choke on seamless branching, not a big deal.

BD has been out way too long for it to still have problems with something as basic as playing the actual movie - you know, the reason why people buy/rent movies. I don't want to rehash old arguments about this topic, especially since it's off topic - but 3D really is just a gimmick and is frustrating given the current problems that exist.
Old 12-21-09, 12:29 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by Coral View Post
Whoever's at fault, there has to be set standard of the spec so no manufacturer's can implement it differently.
There is a set standard of the spec. Any problems that are arising are because either the BD player or the BD is not conforming to that spec.
Old 12-21-09, 12:37 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

This is nothing but a gimmick, and I'm not interested.
Old 12-21-09, 12:50 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Contrary to lots of people in this thread, I'm really looking forward to this... assuming it is done as well as they are saying.
Old 12-21-09, 12:56 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by Kory View Post
This is nothing but a gimmick, and I'm not interested.
Yup, pass.
Old 12-21-09, 03:57 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

I'm all over this, I think well-implemented 3D can add a lot to a movie. But I won't buy a new TV until the prices of 3DTV's are the same as their 2D counterparts. My Mitsubishi actually is 3D Ready, but who knows if it conforms to this particular spec or not.
Old 12-21-09, 04:09 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by cartman View Post
Contrary to lots of people in this thread, I'm really looking forward to this... assuming it is done as well as they are saying.
Yep, me too! You always see the usual gloom and doom when something new is introduced. Cry me a river!
Old 12-21-09, 04:56 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

I rather get a 3D PC Monitor.
Old 12-21-09, 05:28 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

I'm excited about this, even though I don't know when I'll be able to afford to buy a 3D-ready TV.

I find it really shocking how many people are dismissive about 3D. Is it absolutely perfect and flawless? No, but it has attributes that can enhance the way people see films, much like color and sound did before. Of course, both of those things were dismissed by many as gimmicks when they came out as well ...
Old 12-21-09, 06:12 PM
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Re: CES: 3D Spec is finally done

Originally Posted by iNCREDiPiNOY View Post
I rather get a 3D PC Monitor.

That will be coming soon also. A lot of game makers are currently exploring the feature.

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