They are by no means liberal with their 5 of 5 reviews. They give 3s and 4s all the time.

I pre-ordered Transformers and Sweeney before 9/2, buy they will be delivered after 9/2. I wonder if that counts or if I will need to cancel and reorder after 9/2? How annoying.

I'm not talking about overall volume - I'm talking about the mix.

I do have the ability to perceive the difference in event levels.

And you know exactly how this particular theater has calibrated their sound system?

I doubt that would matter much if its ordered online. In Sweenys case, it won't get shipped until October, so its just Transformers that might be iffy.

I know what other DLP screenings there have sounded like vs. my HT experience.

You can relax - I'm not saying your beloved HD DVD is shit. I'm saying I hope MY experience with the Blu-Ray has LFE comparable to MY experience with the film at a DLP theater. Because the HD DVD certainly did not recreate MY DLP theater experience.

I think Josh is still pissed because his buddy Peter Bracke over at HD Digest said that U-571's lossless audio track blew away the DD+ on the HD DVD. Because if you remember, Josh said a few days ago in the 1st closed Speed Racer thread that basically you shouldn't be able to tell much difference between DD+ and lossless audio.

I wonder if Bracke will say the same thing about Transformers, thus causing further anger for someone who doesn't think they are ever wrong.

I think you should read this thread (from the past few days):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1032686

When FilmMixer, who, well creates the mix's to films, went into great detail out DD+ and Lossless are identical and its simply a placebo effect. But hey, its just the job he has been doing for 20 years in a controlled area that can match any volume levels... He has an open invitation out to Bracke to come visit his studio and pick out the lossless track 3 out of 4 times compared to DD+.

And let's not forget, Bracke is wrong way more times then he is right. Miami Vice BD was re-encoded from VC1 to AVC? Oops, he changed that after a few days and now you would never know he made a mistake.

So you're saying that you've directly compared the Blu-ray to the HD DVD and they have different LFE levels? Did you measure?

I guess my point is that the packing slip I receive with the shipment is my receipt, and that will list July as my purchase date.

Let's not forget that Mr. Robert Harris actually has a formidable record to show off to those who appear qualified to produce an expert opinion in a field they have no record at all. So, you rebuttal is hardly indicative of the situation.

Now back to the question pertaining to the original topic of this thread. What portion of the technical evaluation for the Transformers disc you disagree with and why? Apparently you disagree with the high marks given by Mr. Liebman and believe that there is something the disc is lacking. What is it?

Pro-B

His quote indicates to me that he hasn't yet seen/heard the BD of Transformers. Hence, "I HOPE my experience with the Blu-ray..."

The format war was annoying when it was going on. People trying to continue it now that it's over bewilder me.

Bracke has a record of changing his reviews when he is proven to be wrong. You would never know it unless you frequent forums, which you do, so you know how often he has made errors. Miami Vice BD? Or how about the fact that HDD just went back and changed the score they gave Transformers on HD DVD from 5 stars to 4? Sorry, he has lost all credibility with me.

As for the Blu-ray.com review, Pro-B, once again, I am just going to put you on ignore. You seem to like to target anyone who actually wanted HD DVD to win while giving anyone else a free pass. Since I'd rather not get banned from this forum I'll continue to ignore you're posts. You've proven time and time again you are not here for the actual films but to start conflicts which lead to threads being closed down.

Send it in anyway - they are usually pretty good about those type of things. The start date has to be there for legal issues, if its a few days before, they won't care.

To make it crystal clear for you:

The LFE is lacking on my setup with the HD DVD, even at high volume.

The LFE's level proportionate to the rest of the mix is quite different on the disc vs. MY DLP screening.

I have never heard such a discrepancy between relative LFE levels on any other DLP film screened at the same location vs. the disc.

It is my *hope* that the LFE will be more prominent when I play the Blu-Ray through my system, which has been level calibrated.

You'll note I am one user, not someone trying to write a review and tell other people what to do.

You, on the other hand, felt the need to tell Ralph Potts how to conduct his own review. Nice lack of respect there.

Give it a rest.

Thank you for reading the whole post.

It seems to me that your credibility criterion changes more and more to reflect what you believe the right evaluation should be, yet you dismiss those who follow a similar philosophy. We now have two reviews that seem to indicate exactly what you question. I asked you earlier: what portion of the review, or let's say reviews, you disagree with. Given that Bracke actually went back to correct his old HDDVD review this seems to be a very strong issue to consider - was there an improvement or not?

I don't target anyone. I question those who feel comfortable unleashing statements about credibility yet when asked to justify their stance end up ignoring or stating that that the party they disagree with lost credibility. If you cannot defend your claims then don't produce them. The two reviews very clearly state why they give the BD the highest marks.

Pro-B

I look at things this way:

If you are happy with the HD DVD (as many are), don't worry about if the Blu-Ray is better. Stick with the HD DVD.

Personally, I was more than happy with the PQ on the HD DVD. I thought the audio was fantastic except for the apparent lack of LFE. I am not the only one who experienced this by a longshot, as evidenced by the lengthy thread at AVS on the subject. Sure some of those experiences could be written off to poor setups, no calibration, etc., but there were just too many user accounts of similar experiences for this to be entirely user error. I'm not saying the disc is defective. Maybe the LFE was mixed in a way where some systems just can't reproduce it correctly - I don't know. Some people with some pretty high-end setups (much better than mine) also reported the same lack of LFE.

So to conclude, if your HD DVD rocks your world, fuckin' A - keep enjoying it.

Some of us are hoping the Blu-Ray provides a more satisfying experience on our setups, regardless of the root cause of the LFE issue.

No agenda; no bullshit sour grapes.

I misread your last post and thought you were saying that the Blu-ray does have more LFE. I apologize for that, bunkaroo.

I didn't tell Ralph to do anything. I made a suggestion, which he stated that he agreed with. Please don't try to make that into something it's not.

Man...you guys never get tired of this stuff do you?

Peter Bracke, HD Digest:

"Paramount's previous HD DVD release of 'Transformers,' contained a high-res Dolby Digital-Plus Surround option. With this Blu-ray they've provided a Dolby TrueHD 5.1 Surround track (48kHz/24-bit). It's hard to imagine a home theater mix that could sound better."

He should have. At the time, the DD+ audio for Transformers was the best he heard. Not surprisingly, the lossless TrueHD audio impressed him a whole lot more.

I wonder if Mr. Z owes him $200 now?

In that case every review website should go back and re-rate picture and audio quality for all DVDs since over time things improve. The DD+ track is still the best available for HD DVD, period. Regardless of how well the BD may sound to others, on the HD DVD format, it is king.

Now it apparently sounds just as good as The Brave One HD DVD
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1242/braveone.html

and not as good as The Invasion HD DVD:
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1235/invasion.html

Which is wrong. It should reflect how it sounded at the time, not how a newer version sounds. But its just another case of HDD changing things around and not alerting potential readers. Its one thing to change the review to correct an obvious mistake (VC1 on Miami Vice BD), but to go back and change the rating of a title from a year ago is just wrong.

Do I think Transformers BD TrueHD track was amazing? Hell yeah. 5 stars audio? Yes. But I would say the same for the HD DVD version as I can't tell the difference between the two after not watching the film in BD first, then HD DVD, and then comparing certain scenes. But that's just me. PQ is no where near a 5 though, not sure what film he is watching.

Edit:
Looks like Bracke (or HDD) went back and corrected the HD DVD version to show the true 5 star rating he gave it. Ouch.

"(Reviewer's Note (08/15/08): I originally rated this audio mix five stars, because at the time, I felt it had no faults that I could discern. Also, high-res audio had not yet become standard on next-gen releases. However, Paramount has since released 'Transformers' on Blu-ray with a Dolby TrueHD 5.1 Surround audio track, one that I have feel is, by comparison, superior, and which I also rated five stars. As High-def Digest does not alter old reviews or ratings on past reviews, the five-star audio rating for this HD DVD of "Transformers' will remain as originally scored.)"