Care to elaborate?? Seriously. As far as I know, the bottom line is unts sold.

And furthermore comparing percentages of a format that is entirely in the hands of early adopters/cinephiles with DVD which has an ubiquious presence is a false dichotomy for many many reasons.

Now comparing two emerging format percentages may be more useful (harking back to the days of HD DVD and Blu-Ray coexistence)..but the percentage of any given title on the DVD v. Blu Ray isn't even close to being important.

Do you think the concept of attach rates was invented to compare HD DVD and Blu-ray? No, it wasn't. It is a measure of how an emerging platform/format is selling, and it represents the percentage of owners who are purchasing software.

If the number of installed players grows, but the number of software units sold does not, the attach rate (the percentage of hardware owners purchasing software) is shrinking. Likewise, an increase in software sales that does not correlate to an increase in hardware sales may be an indication that the sales increase is not likely to be sustained.

Of course, attach rate isn't the only (or necessarily even the primary) factor that the studios are watching in Blu-ray sales, but I never claimed it was. You, on the other hand, implied that no one cared about percentages at all, which is simply not true.

Not deflecting. YOU DID NOT POST NUMBERS YOU POSTED PERCENTAGES.

But you proved me wrong! Kudos to you, I guess.

Fact remains: BD SALES ARE ABYSMAL. Spin that.

You were the one who made a claim about relative sales in the first place, didn't you?

If you can make statements regarding relative sales, then I can too. If relative sales were so irrelevant, why did you post about them?

Now that your relative-sales statement has been debunked, you suddenly switch to the position that any relative-sales statements are irrelevant, and that only absolute-sales statements should be considered.

How utterly convenient.

Please explain your numbers, and their source to me. What is the 5.5? Where did it come from? Did you attain this number by comparing actual sales numbers, and if you did, why not just post those numbers?

I have ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been about raw numbers of units sold, and not this bullshitting spin where 27 Dresses is a 100, and the other titles fall out from there.

Percentages are used to hide pure numbers, which you spinjobs are too cowardly to actually present.

HOW MANY DISCS SOLD??

I think the cowardice is beginning to abate given the hard numbers post a few pages back:

First, I have not insulted or disrespected you. I would like it if you could extend me the same courtesy.

Second, your accusation is beyond baseless. I have always posted all and any sales information that gets published.

Actually, it was me who posted the unit numbers for the weeks ending April 20 and April 27:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...3&postcount=72

I also posted the top-selling HDM titles for 2007, with unit numbers:
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=35037

I also started a thread on blu-ray.com titled "Miscellaneous software sales reports with actual units sold" (which since has become a sticky). That's where I post unit numbers whenever they crop up.

So your little personal mudslinging misses the mark by a mile.

But you posted neither one HERE. I don't go to Blu-ray.com.

As I said, I was wrong. My statement was more of a hyperbole rather than a belief that the top selling BD sold less then the 500th selling DVD. I didn't really believe it; I was maiking a point about BD sales.

If raw numbers become the norm rather than these silly interpretive pie charts, then we will truly see how BD is faring against DVD.

How about we go back a couple weeks to 4-27? How did BD fare that week versus DVD? The top title, according to your source, sold around 8900 copies. That doesn't break the top 30 from the information I have found (I can't find a chart that goes past 30 for DVD).

I don't come at this from a "BD is doing shitty, YEA!!!" perspective. I hope BD does well enough for me to get the SW and LotR flick on a disc. I AM realistic. Sales are bad. Some weeks they are dismal. There are too many people who seem to have such a personal interest in seeing BD do well that they lose all objectivity.

I don't think that BD selling 1% of the top title's units (top BD vs top DVD) is bad. I also don't think adding a bunch of stuff and twisting the numbers is good either. Honestly, even this comparison is flawed. The top BD and top DVD from 4/27 are not the same title. Comparing the same title isn't exactly fair either since it could be a movie many consider not "worthy" of hi-def.

Comparing BD against HD DVD was a purer comparison, but there are a lot of flaws with any comparison the DVD.

Sales figures discussion has never been a hot topic here. Not even during the format war. Matome started a mirror thread to the one I started at AVS and it died away in only eight pages: http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=491207

And anyway, your way of encouraging me to do so is by calling me a "cowardly spinjob"? Great people skills there.

Of course raw numbers are best. But information about "how BD is faring against DVD" can be extracted from the percentage charts.

Well, on the week ending April 27 DVD had a major day-and-date release (Cloverfield) and BD didn't. New releases for BD were limited to a documentary, a low-budget horror film, a low-budget, foreign-language horror film, and a low-budget, direct-to-video horror film.


During that week...
Alien vs. Predator: Requiem BD sold 7.8% of the DVD sales
Juno 3.1%
I Am Legend 13.4%
300 29.0%
The Orphanage 13.2%
No Country For Old Men 13.6%
One Missed Call 4.8%

It follows that in its first week The Orphanage sold 43,200 copies on DVD and 5,700 copies on BD. Abysmal?

Yeah well that was the same flawed argument HD DVD supporters were using towards the end of the format..when HD DVD wasn't getting new releases and Blu Ray was. The point is that for whatever reason (yes I assume Paramount will eventually release Cloverfield in Blu Ray). Blu Ray didn't get a new release when DVD did. So it doesn't do much good to explain away the numbers by saying Blu Ray didn't get a new release.

Note: I am not saying that Blu Ray is near the end of its live..I'm just saying that type of rationalization doesn't hold much water.

Percentage spin again.

Combined, the top ten of BD sold less than 2% of the DVD units moved in that week. The previous week? 2.5% (with a loss-leading AvP price).

See how easy that was?

No need to assume - Cloverfield is announced for June 3.

I remember that argument. HD DVD proponents said that a much fairer benchmark was to compare relative sales of titles that were released on both formats. And, far from considering it a flawed argument, I gave it due followup and opened a thread in June 2007 listing relative sales of dual-format releases:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=9527

Hence, just as I considered that the relative sales of movies on BD and HD DVD were a useful indicator, so are relative sales of movies on BD and DVD.

I really don't care enough to scour the Internet for your threads scattered across the netverse, sorry.

I just took what you wrote in this thread and it seemed to me that you were using the argument that HD DVD proponents were using. If thats not what you meant, fine, but it sounded like that me.

Please read my posts.

I posted that in its first week The Orphanage sold 43,200 copies on DVD and 5,700 copies on BD.

Those don't look like percentages to me, do they?

I don't get why some people get a kick from screaming sales are bad and BD is doomed. Just enjoy the freaking movies that are coming out and leave it at that.

I was merely pointing out the obscure fact that theatrically-successful day-and-date titles tend to sell more on home video than theatrical flops or catalog titles.

Daniel Plainview: "I want no-one else to succeed."

We don't get a kick out of it. We're frightened for what it means to the future of the format, and the future of High Definition media. If catalog titles don't sell, studios will stop releasing them. This is inevitable. Studios won't continue throwing money at a product that makes them no profit.

I don't get why some people think that sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and singing "La la la, everything is shiny and happy in Blu-ray land, la la la la la" is somehow constructive.

Unfortunately the format war made some people choose sides, and those allegiances are not easily forgotten. The same info coming from poster A could be taken as neutral commentary, but when it comes from poster B it is likely a scorched earth dig.

Exactly. As I said, there are a lot of films I want on Hi-Def. I just wonder if the format will survive long enough to get me those discs.

I see the argument that "studios want to be in before it becomes big." Why? They could back out now and re-evaluate in two years where the market is and start releasing then. The only studio committed is Sony.

I think 2009 is the make-it/break-it year for BD.

I would say the truth lies somewhere in the middle, between "All is happy and good with Blu-ray" and "Dear god the format won't last through 09!"

After receiving a few complaints about this thread, I read through the last few pages. It seems to me that some people would like to use this as a vestigial throwback to when both formats were competing and people were openly fighting in this forum. That is unacceptable. You don't have to agree with each other, but you do have to play nice. If you find yourself getting angry or annoyed at what somebody is posting on a message board about disc sales, then step away. Take a breather. Blu-ray isn't going to magically outsell DVD because of a point you make on here. Nor is it going to fail for the same reason.

There are so few data points that the arguments in this thread tend to become cyclical rather quickly. The same people are saying the same things to the same participants, so nobody is willing to let anything go. Do try and keep perspective. Maybe log off and go watch some of these Blu-ray discs for a bit. You might find yourself remembering why you bother to post here in the first place.

Oh please. I would like to have an HDM player in my home (although I am on the record for liking HD VOD too) but I'm not going to pay the current prices for hardware and software. I don't think I'm alone given the poor sales numbers for media and hardware (especially standalones)

Usually when things aren't selling and you want them to sell, you lower the price. BDA's actions speak a lot more than our pitiful commentaries on it - they aren't lowering prices so I guess they are just content with plodding along with the relatively limited collection. If the studios and manafacturers wanted the format to succeed they would lower prices.

EDIT: Please note I was typing this before mod discussion and was not meant to be disrespectful.

Everyone needs to face it, Bluray will always be a niche format like laser disc (but a larger market) and never overtake DVD. DVD is too huge and the quality difference just isnt there to most people.

Im hoping that Bluray will just be a great compliment to DVD and be a good enough earner for the studios to keep it around.

Honestly, I think this post sums the whole thing up pretty well.

Well said.

I don't think I fully agree with that. However, at it's current pricing scheme? You're absolutely correct.