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Old 07-02-08 | 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Again, BD sales are NOT 6-10% of DVD sales.
Unit sales are not. Dollars are.
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Old 07-02-08 | 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
By the Entertainment Merchants Association of America, EMA.



Pro-B
TG Daily has released more detailed data from the EMA annual report.


Highlights:

Hardware

HDTV sales rose to 20.7 million units in 2007, bringing the total installed base to 46.4 million in the U.S. (34% of households). The EMA noted that only 44% of those who own a HDTV actually watch HD programming and 22% believe to watch HD programming, while they in fact do not. The HDTV installed base is still well behind the total installed base of TVs, which was 112.4 million at the end of 2007.

Over the course of the year, 33 million DVD players were sold, bringing the total to 87.3 million console DVD players in the U.S. in 2007. There were also 48.5 million PC DVD players, 29.5 million DVD players in video game systems, 27.2 million portable DVD players and 25.2 million DVRs. 60% of DVD owners are estimated to have more than one DVD player. Almost 4.5 million HD players were sold in 2006 and 2007 in the U.S.

Microsoft sold 316,000 HD DVD add-ons for the Xbox 360.

U.S. PS3 sales were close to 3 million by the end at 2007, and 87% of PS3 owners said they watch Blu-ray movies on their console. The EMA believes that the PS3 will remain the main force behind Blu-ray disc sales until 2009, when standalone Blu-ray players are expected to outpace the sales volume of the PS3. Market research indicates that 100 – 130 million homes worldwide will own at least one Blu-ray player by 2012.

Annual sales of all Blu-ray devices are expected to reach 57.4 million units by that time. The largest market will be Europe with 26.4 million, followed by the U.S. with 22.6 million and Japan with 8.4 million, according to the EMA.



Software

According to the EMA, 49% of our movie budget goes to home video, 25% cable TV, 23% to the box office and 3% to on-demand content.

Consumers spent $24.1 billion on home videos in 2007 ($16.5 billion in buy-to-own and 8.2 billion in rentals), which is down from $24.7 billion last year and down from a peak of $25.5 billion in 2004. The EMA believes that this trend will continue for some years with revenues declining to $23.6 billion in 2008 and $23.3 billion in 2009.

It is estimated that, in 2012, sales of Blu-ray Discs will exceed those of standard DVDs and will generate sales of $9.5 billion. Home video spending is projected to increase to $25.6 billion in 2012.

A total of 12,177 DVDs (including HD media, and all types of content, including TV shows) were released in 2007, which is down from 13,637 in 2006.

300 movies were released on Blu-ray, while 234 movies became available on HD DVD. The EMA said that 800 different titles were available on either HD DVD or Blu-ray at the end of 2007.

Nearly nine million high-def discs were sold during the year, raking in revenues of $260 million. Blu-ray discs accounted for 67% (about $170 million) of all high-def disc sales (40% in 2006), despite the fact that these movies were more expensive than HD DVD titles. According to the EMA, the average Blu-ray title was priced at $33.03, while HD DVD movies cost an average of $31.77. Contrary to common belief, these prices were not much higher than new theatrical releases on DVD, which were priced at an average of $27.13, the EMA said.

Digital delivery of movies is still a minor factor in the equation and hit $1 billion for video-on-demand and pay-per-view programming delivered via Internet, cable and satellite seems paltry. $123 million were spent on Internet downloads.

Interesting note: the average gamer is much older than most may think – 33 years. The EMA said that 48% of gamers are 18-49 years of age, 28% 18 years or younger and 24% are older than 50.
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Old 07-02-08 | 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
So, you don't expect Blu-ray to see any benefit at all during the holiday season? You really believe that DVD sales will experience the same level of surge that Blu-ray players and software will?

If that's what you really believe, then I think one of us is going to be very surprised by the Blu-ray sales figures for this December, and I don't think it's going to be me.
Yup that is what I said, alright:
People will certainly buy more BDs in the holiday period,
One of us may be surprised, but unless BD sells 100M units in December, I will NOT be the one surprised. Unlike you, I have an open mind about this. I don't assume anything. BD could sell like lemonade on a hot day. It could sell like tickets to a leper convention. Neither would surprise me.

You, on the other hand, have already decided that BD is successful in 12/08, and will spin the facts to make sure your pre-conceived opinion is correct.

Dealing in the FACTS of the PRESENT (two things hard to grasp for some), the economy is crashing. Non-necessities are getting ejected from budgets. BOTH BD and DVD fall into this category.
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Old 07-02-08 | 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Grubert
Unit sales are not. Dollars are.
NO, The TOP 20 are garnering 6-10% of DVD sales. If we took ALL BD sales and compared them against ALL DVD sales, I doubt the number would look the same.
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Old 07-02-08 | 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
NO, The TOP 20 are garnering 6-10% of DVD sales. If we took ALL BD sales and compared them against ALL DVD sales, I doubt the number would look the same.
Yes-uh. You're not looking at the proper set of figures



Consumers spent $123.46 million on DVDs for the week

Consumers spent $8.48 million on Blu-ray Discs for the week

100 * 8.48/123.46 = 6.8686

In revenue (dollars), BD sales were 6.87% of DVD sales.
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Old 07-02-08 | 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
Just FYI, that comment (at least for me) nullified the credibility of anything else you might have said.
Am I surprised? Compartmentalize and ignore anything that does not jive with your opinion. Rinse, repeat.

You are so right. Because I don't burn a candle for BD, my "perception" of the economy is totally off.

I like BD. However, I think that there are things that they are doing that deserve criticism. Further, if the format is to supplant DVD, as some (not me) seem to be pinning their hopes and dreams on, then they need to make some changes, specifically to the MSRPs of the players and more importantly the software. I believe that the premium cost of BD over DVD is still too big to make it attractive to the mainstream. With economic woes pressing in from all corners, that DVD for $10 less may just be good enough for the average consumer.

Last edited by Qui Gon Jim; 07-02-08 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 07-02-08 | 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Grubert
Yes-uh. You're not looking at the proper set of figures



Consumers spent $123.46 million on DVDs for the week

Consumers spent $8.48 million on Blu-ray Discs for the week

100 * 8.48/123.46 = 6.8686

In revenue (dollars), BD sales were 6.87% of DVD sales.
I stand corrected. However, units vs. revenue is apples to oranges.
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Old 07-02-08 | 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I stand corrected. However, units vs. revenue is apples to oranges.
It's BD revenue vs DVD revenue. Apples to apples.
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Old 07-02-08 | 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
NO, The TOP 20 are garnering 6-10% of DVD sales.
The top 20 are probably responsible for 50% of weekly sales, if not more.
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Old 07-02-08 | 08:37 AM
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So which are we talking about, revenue or units? BDs have a higher price than DVDs so comparing the revenue is sort of loaded.

I really do think there is no real way to compare DVD and BD since there is a qualifier in every comparison that tips it too far one way or the other. I maintain that raw numbers of units sold would be the best way to track things, but there are problems even with that comparison.
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Old 07-02-08 | 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Dealing in the FACTS of the PRESENT (two things hard to grasp for some), the economy is crashing. Non-necessities are getting ejected from budgets. BOTH BD and DVD fall into this category.
Even though I mostly agree with your position usually, this is not entirely true. The video game industry, for example, is absolutely booming right now and that is definitely a non-necessity.
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Old 07-02-08 | 08:53 AM
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I thought that pie chart represents unit volume.

In other words, of the top 20 optical media titles sold during that week, 6% were Blu-ray.

As for revenue, you need to add $123.46M + $8.48M = $131.94M, then divide $8.48M by $131.94M to get the Blu-ray revenue for the week:

$8.48M/$131.94M or 6.43%
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Old 07-02-08 | 09:20 AM
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Looking at this chart, I believe there are two things going on:

1.) Revenue from consumer sales (the two figures)
2.) Unit Volume (from the Pie Chart)

Those things seem different to me, even if the percentages are seemingly close.

Once again, it sure seems like there is some funny stuff with that chart. Is it top 20 DVD volume v. top 20 Blu Ray volume? I'm not sure, the asterik is on the DVD Sales part..but I will give it the benefit of the doubt that the asterik applies to both DVD and Blu Ray sales...and thus they are comparing Top 20 Blu v. Top 20 DVD.

My other interpretation of the asterik is that it all Blu Ray sales v. Top 20 DVD, which makes the numbers even worse for Blu IMHO.

Either way, the chart and the figures seem to be two different things. "Volume" seems a lot different than spending figures quoted.
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Old 07-02-08 | 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
So which are we talking about, revenue or units? BDs have a higher price than DVDs so comparing the revenue is sort of loaded.
The charts are pretty self-explanatory but anyway...


The pie chart at the center



compares Blu-ray vs DVD sales (Top 20 unit volume). That is to say, they add the sales for the top 20 BD titles, the sales the top 20 DVD titles, and they calculate the relative percentages.


The expense figures at either side of the pie



give us the money spent by consumers on DVDs and BDs. That's all DVDs, and all BDs.
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Old 07-02-08 | 09:35 AM
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You keep saying volume = sales. I am not sure. And yes I know the title of the chart is "Sales".

Volume could mean its more natural definition, which is number of units moved. Either way that is a sale.
Your fancy scribbling doesn't change that fact. It could be volume based on revenue generated, it could be unit moved volume. Honestly, unless you prepare that chart, you don't know what "volume" means.

I guess theoretically, if Blu Ray has a higher average price, you are looking at less units generating more raw sales figures, so in actuality, the "volume = units moved" definition actually helps the numbers a bit because it eliminates the disparity in pricing.

I don't know, but without some qualification it is open for interpretation.

Last edited by chanster; 07-02-08 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 07-02-08 | 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
You keep saying volume = sales. I am not sure. Volume could mean its more natural definition, which is number of units moved. Your fancy scribbling doesn't change that fact. It could be sales volume, it could be unit moved volume. Honestly, unless you prepare that chart, you don't know what "volume" means.
No, I'm saying sales = sales

We've had this pie chart since March.



Blu-ray vs DVD Sales Comparison*
* Top 20 BD unit volume vs top 20 DVD unit volume
What part are you not getting? Sales. Unit volume.
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Old 07-02-08 | 09:53 AM
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Revenue does not equal units. DVDs and BDs would have to be priced the same for that equasion to be true.

I am also starting to wonder if the whole chart is based on the top 20.
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
So which are we talking about, revenue or units? BDs have a higher price than DVDs so comparing the revenue is sort of loaded.
Is it fair to compare units, considering there are over 100 million dvd players vs about 5 million BD players?
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I am also starting to wonder if the whole chart is based on the top 20.
The revenue part? It is not. If you are "starting to wonder" otherwise, feel free to prove it.
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:12 AM
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I don't think the charts are open to interpretation. "Blu-ray vs. DVD Sales (Top 20 unit volume)" can only mean one thing: top 20 number of units sold at retail.

The "Consumers spent XXX on..." statistics are entirely separate and show exactly what they say: the amount of money spent at retail on each respective format (all titles).

What is there to interpret? They are giving us two different statistics which are only indirectly correlated.
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
They are giving us two different statistics which are only indirectly correlated.
That's my reading as well.
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
What is there to interpret?
It's the old game some played during the format war: if a statistic is published and you don't like it, then dismiss it, obfuscate it and/or cast doubt on what it means or how it was obtained.

They aren't fooling anyone.
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
I don't think the charts are open to interpretation. "Blu-ray vs. DVD Sales (Top 20 unit volume)" can only mean one thing: top 20 number of units sold at retail.

The "Consumers spent XXX on..." statistics are entirely separate and show exactly what they say: the amount of money spent at retail on each respective format (all titles).

What is there to interpret? They are giving us two different statistics which are only indirectly correlated.
I agree.
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Is it fair to compare units, considering there are over 100 million dvd players vs about 5 million BD players?
Not really. That is why I said there really is no comparison that does not slide to one side or the other.
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Old 07-02-08 | 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Grubert
The revenue part? It is not. If you are "starting to wonder" otherwise, feel free to prove it.
I meant to say "I was starting to wonder, but I think the charts were clear." My wording did not convey my thoughts as I intended.
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