Blu-ray Sales Figures Discussion
05-19-08 | 10:18 AM
#326
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
Fixing all of those things would be a very good start.
05-19-08 | 10:42 AM
#327
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
This is a fair point. It's important that pricing come down to levels that consumers consider reasonable, but that doesn't necessarily mean they need to drop to the same point or below current DVD pricing.
It's more than just pricing that's causing these poor Blu-ray sales. That's only one factor. The bigger issue is that the format has not demonstrated itself to be a sufficient improvement over DVD in the eyes of most consumers. This will require a consumer education initiative to show people that upscaled DVD is not just as good as HD, and that every movie and TV show can benefit from High Definition, not just big-budget action and sci-fi flicks. Those are huge misconceptions that still dominate the marketplace, which the studios and hardware manufacturers have further perpetuated through their release slates and marketing claims.
It will require a better selection of movies be released, content that will appeal to more than just PS3 gaming teens. Blu-ray needs to appeal to more women, families, classic film lovers, genre movie buffs, and the like. Right now, those people see next to nothing they want to watch on Blu-ray, and so have stuck with DVD. Blu-ray is seen as the "PS3 movie format" and is perceived as a toy and a gimmick.
Criterion announcing their first Blu-ray titles is a big step in the right direction, but the other studios need to open their vaults as well. And no more holding back of "prestige" titles until the market is large enough for them to make a big splash. Doing that is a sure-fire way to ensure that the market never hits that point.
It will also require that the movies that do get released offer a compelling upgrade over DVD. No more recycling dated video masters with bad edge enhancement or DNR artifacts. No more dropping all the supplements that the DVD had and then charging $39.98 for a mediocre catalog title. And if the studio is going to invest in a fancy new interactive feature, they need to make it something useful and worthwhile, not just a stupid Java game or overly complicated menus.
Fixing all of those things would be a very good start.
It's more than just pricing that's causing these poor Blu-ray sales. That's only one factor. The bigger issue is that the format has not demonstrated itself to be a sufficient improvement over DVD in the eyes of most consumers. This will require a consumer education initiative to show people that upscaled DVD is not just as good as HD, and that every movie and TV show can benefit from High Definition, not just big-budget action and sci-fi flicks. Those are huge misconceptions that still dominate the marketplace, which the studios and hardware manufacturers have further perpetuated through their release slates and marketing claims.
It will require a better selection of movies be released, content that will appeal to more than just PS3 gaming teens. Blu-ray needs to appeal to more women, families, classic film lovers, genre movie buffs, and the like. Right now, those people see next to nothing they want to watch on Blu-ray, and so have stuck with DVD. Blu-ray is seen as the "PS3 movie format" and is perceived as a toy and a gimmick.
Criterion announcing their first Blu-ray titles is a big step in the right direction, but the other studios need to open their vaults as well. And no more holding back of "prestige" titles until the market is large enough for them to make a big splash. Doing that is a sure-fire way to ensure that the market never hits that point.
It will also require that the movies that do get released offer a compelling upgrade over DVD. No more recycling dated video masters with bad edge enhancement or DNR artifacts. No more dropping all the supplements that the DVD had and then charging $39.98 for a mediocre catalog title. And if the studio is going to invest in a fancy new interactive feature, they need to make it something useful and worthwhile, not just a stupid Java game or overly complicated menus.
Fixing all of those things would be a very good start.
I think consumer education is a HUGE key.
I was in line to get into a graduation yesterday. This woman in front of me was marveling at an iPhone this guy in front of her was using. She was amazed how something so small could do so much. He told her that technology makes things smaller and smaller. He then said, and I quote, "That is what those new blu-rays are. They are smaller than DVDs (he pantomimed the size of a 3" CD)."
Now this guy was clearly no total stranger to technology, as he was having no issues using his iPhone. He clearly had no clue what BD was all about. Now this is total anecdotal evidence, and I know that the iPhone is a "hot" toy, but this sort of surprised me.
The existence of upconverters and the way they are marketed absolutely kills BD.
05-19-08 | 10:55 AM
#328
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
. . . Fixing all of those things would be a very good start.
Josh, allow me to offer my full support in any potential future bids you might make for the presidency.
05-19-08 | 10:57 AM
#329
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Originally Posted by darkside
I don't see them taking their marbles and going home. They supported laserdisc for decades, but my big concern is getting mostly safer blockbuster style films on Blu-ray and fewer catalog releases. If all we end up getting is big budget films and the typical guy action and comedy releases because that is all that sells Blu-ray might as well be dead.
05-19-08 | 12:41 PM
#330
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
.....That's the most common misconception I hear. It's pretty ridiculous to think that people assume movies from the '50s or '60s will look horrible in high-def when they were shot to look spectacular on screens dozens of times the size of an average home theater.
As we have seen with Casablanca, Adventures of Robin Hood, Forbidden Planet, et al., older movies can and do look great in HD. However, the market for these type of titles has (thus far) proven to be lackluster at best.
05-19-08 | 12:49 PM
#332
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
.....Hopefully Wizard of Oz will change all of that.
05-19-08 | 02:43 PM
#333
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Josh Z
It's more than just pricing that's causing these poor Blu-ray sales. That's only one factor. The bigger issue is that the format has not demonstrated itself to be a sufficient improvement over DVD in the eyes of most consumers. This will require a consumer education initiative to show people that upscaled DVD is not just as good as HD, and that every movie and TV show can benefit from High Definition, not just big-budget action and sci-fi flicks. Those are huge misconceptions that still dominate the marketplace, which the studios and hardware manufacturers have further perpetuated through their release slates and marketing claims.
It will require a better selection of movies be released, content that will appeal to more than just PS3 gaming teens. Blu-ray needs to appeal to more women, families, classic film lovers, genre movie buffs, and the like. Right now, those people see next to nothing they want to watch on Blu-ray, and so have stuck with DVD. Blu-ray is seen as the "PS3 movie format" and is perceived as a toy and a gimmick.
It will require a better selection of movies be released, content that will appeal to more than just PS3 gaming teens. Blu-ray needs to appeal to more women, families, classic film lovers, genre movie buffs, and the like. Right now, those people see next to nothing they want to watch on Blu-ray, and so have stuck with DVD. Blu-ray is seen as the "PS3 movie format" and is perceived as a toy and a gimmick.
Another problem is that some have a notion that HD has a certain look that everything has to strive for. They feel that if the movie is grainy, or soft, or otherwise not perfect, they should just get the DVD instead. It doesn't matter to them that the colors could be better, or the movie could look more detailed but not perfect, or that the compression artifacts would be greatly reduced; if it doesn't have that "pop" they don't want it. Some movies, particularly older ones, just aren't going to reach their lofty standards no matter how well they're remastered.
BTW, there's a guy on AVS who is almost never satisfied with anything. He was criticizing the transfer for No Country for Old Men, and actually insinuated that the reason some shots were softer than others was because the compressionist was deciding on the level of sharpness for each shot.
Last edited by Drexl; 05-19-08 at 02:46 PM.
05-19-08 | 03:00 PM
#334
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Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k
Ridiculous or not, many people do assume that.
05-19-08 | 08:09 PM
#335
DVD Talk Legend
The education thing is huge, but honestly I just keep running into the "I don't care attitude". I know more and more people every day that are getting HDTVs and the majority still don't care about watching HD content on them. I have definitely tried showing people I know real "HD" content and occasionally it works, but by and large it fails. They figure they spent enough money buying the HDTV and they feel no need to spend more money on HD Cable, Blu-ray or in some cases just freaking component cables.
It frustrates me to no end.
I don't think Blu-ray has to be the same price as DVD, but it shouldn't be the large difference you see on TV box sets and if they are going to slap on $39.99 MSRPs on movies that 50GB disc better be just as loaded as the DVD that will be selling for $14.99 at Best Buy. I'm the first to say video and audio is the most important thing, but when I'm paying $30 I don't want to go home with less feautres than the DVD version. Wasn't the 50GB disc the reason many wanted BD to win? Then we still get barebones releases? Unacceptable.
I think Blu-ray can find a profitable niche and not be a UMD type failure, but they may be selling largley to the enthusiasts so they better deliver if they want the discs to sell.
It frustrates me to no end.
I don't think Blu-ray has to be the same price as DVD, but it shouldn't be the large difference you see on TV box sets and if they are going to slap on $39.99 MSRPs on movies that 50GB disc better be just as loaded as the DVD that will be selling for $14.99 at Best Buy. I'm the first to say video and audio is the most important thing, but when I'm paying $30 I don't want to go home with less feautres than the DVD version. Wasn't the 50GB disc the reason many wanted BD to win? Then we still get barebones releases? Unacceptable.
I think Blu-ray can find a profitable niche and not be a UMD type failure, but they may be selling largley to the enthusiasts so they better deliver if they want the discs to sell.
05-20-08 | 12:28 AM
#336
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From: Blu-ray.com
Originally Posted by darkside
I think Blu-ray can find a profitable niche and not be a UMD type failure, but they may be selling largley to the enthusiasts so they better deliver if they want the discs to sell.
I stopped by my Walmart tonight to see for myself the new advertisement policy the retailer has adopted,which has been a hot topic for discussion on other forums, and there are a couple of things to note (addressing your comments above).
UMD never saw the sort of massive promotion that Walmart is going to unveil this Memorial Day (I did not have a camera with me but the above photos were borrowed from another poster showing the transition).
Enthusiasts are clearly not the target with such advertisements.
Even though this forum has remained suspiciously silent it is worth pointing out that the new Magnavox 500 players (with the same chip used for the Panasonic players) are now in stock for less than 300$ (the Walmart on Lake Cook Rd. in Buffalo Grove, IL sold out in 48 hours, and tonight at 8.45pm they were restocking).
Pro-B
05-20-08 | 01:26 AM
#337
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Wait....so half-baked $300 BD players are the solution but full featured $99 HD DVD players were not? ...right.
I like how you pointed out the $300 BD players sold out in 48 hours. How many did they stock, 2-3? Do you know? I recall a November where nearly all Wal-Marts in America sold between 20-100 players in a single day...but it was not a Blu-ray player. So even if the Wal-Mart masses go crazy and buy a handful of players, will it all of the sudden mean Blu-ray is relevant?
It was funny watching a certain forum dismiss Wal-Mart selling HD DVD players for $99 and how it was so stupid and lame. Yet, now that they are doing it for Blu its all good. Irony.
I like how you pointed out the $300 BD players sold out in 48 hours. How many did they stock, 2-3? Do you know? I recall a November where nearly all Wal-Marts in America sold between 20-100 players in a single day...but it was not a Blu-ray player. So even if the Wal-Mart masses go crazy and buy a handful of players, will it all of the sudden mean Blu-ray is relevant?
It was funny watching a certain forum dismiss Wal-Mart selling HD DVD players for $99 and how it was so stupid and lame. Yet, now that they are doing it for Blu its all good. Irony.
05-20-08 | 01:43 AM
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From: Blu-ray.com
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Wait....so half-baked $300 BD players are the solution but full featured $99 HD DVD players were not? ...right.
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
I like how you pointed out the $300 BD players sold out in 48 hours. How many did they stock, 2-3? Do you know?
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
I recall a November where nearly all Wal-Marts in America sold between 20-100 players in a single day...but it was not a Blu-ray player. So even if the Wal-Mart masses go crazy and buy a handful of players, will it all of the sudden mean Blu-ray is relevant?
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
It was funny watching a certain forum dismiss Wal-Mart selling HD DVD players for $99 and how it was so stupid and lame. Yet, now that they are doing it for Blu its all good. Irony.
Pro-B
Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 05-20-08 at 01:50 AM.
05-20-08 | 01:49 AM
#339
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Wait....so half-baked $300 BD players are the solution but full featured $99 HD DVD players were not? ...right.
I like how you pointed out the $300 BD players sold out in 48 hours. How many did they stock, 2-3? Do you know? I recall a November where nearly all Wal-Marts in America sold between 20-100 players in a single day...but it was not a Blu-ray player. So even if the Wal-Mart masses go crazy and buy a handful of players, will it all of the sudden mean Blu-ray is relevant?
It was funny watching a certain forum dismiss Wal-Mart selling HD DVD players for $99 and how it was so stupid and lame. Yet, now that they are doing it for Blu its all good. Irony.
I like how you pointed out the $300 BD players sold out in 48 hours. How many did they stock, 2-3? Do you know? I recall a November where nearly all Wal-Marts in America sold between 20-100 players in a single day...but it was not a Blu-ray player. So even if the Wal-Mart masses go crazy and buy a handful of players, will it all of the sudden mean Blu-ray is relevant?
It was funny watching a certain forum dismiss Wal-Mart selling HD DVD players for $99 and how it was so stupid and lame. Yet, now that they are doing it for Blu its all good. Irony.
05-20-08 | 04:18 AM
#340
DVD Talk Special Edition
Certainly, studios have to insist on the fact that HD offers benefits even for movies other than the latest blockbuster. Just because Juno is a comedy doesn't mean it can't benefit from hidef. As long as the average movie buyer thinks otherwise, growth will be stunted.
However, this is by no means the result of Blu-ray being the "PS3 movie format". The proof: HD DVD. Going by the last figures, 2/3 of HD DVD players were standalones, so the effect of the console crowd was much lower. However, just as it happened with Blu-ray, top sellers were the big action movies (Transformers, Bourne Ultimatum, 300) - and Planet Earth. People want eye candy.
Ironically that's why the public at large doesn't really have a problem with DNR - it's film grain they are objecting to.
However, this is by no means the result of Blu-ray being the "PS3 movie format". The proof: HD DVD. Going by the last figures, 2/3 of HD DVD players were standalones, so the effect of the console crowd was much lower. However, just as it happened with Blu-ray, top sellers were the big action movies (Transformers, Bourne Ultimatum, 300) - and Planet Earth. People want eye candy.
Ironically that's why the public at large doesn't really have a problem with DNR - it's film grain they are objecting to.
05-20-08 | 06:13 AM
#341
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Originally Posted by Grubert
Certainly, studios have to insist on the fact that HD offers benefits even for movies other than the latest blockbuster. Just because Juno is a comedy doesn't mean it can't benefit from hidef. As long as the average movie buyer thinks otherwise, growth will be stunted.
However, this is by no means the result of Blu-ray being the "PS3 movie format". The proof: HD DVD. Going by the last figures, 2/3 of HD DVD players were standalones, so the effect of the console crowd was much lower. However, just as it happened with Blu-ray, top sellers were the big action movies (Transformers, Bourne Ultimatum, 300) - and Planet Earth. People want eye candy.
Ironically that's why the public at large doesn't really have a problem with DNR - it's film grain they are objecting to.
However, this is by no means the result of Blu-ray being the "PS3 movie format". The proof: HD DVD. Going by the last figures, 2/3 of HD DVD players were standalones, so the effect of the console crowd was much lower. However, just as it happened with Blu-ray, top sellers were the big action movies (Transformers, Bourne Ultimatum, 300) - and Planet Earth. People want eye candy.
Ironically that's why the public at large doesn't really have a problem with DNR - it's film grain they are objecting to.
However, I do think that they need to get a few standalone decks into stores that are reasonably priced (compared tot the PS3) and as fully feature, well supported and reliable as the PS3. Now that PS3 has done its job in getting BD launched, Sony needs to work on divorcing the two products a bit in the mindset of the average consumer.
There are a lot of people who think BD are strictly for PS3 owners and dismiss the format because they don't play video games.
05-20-08 | 06:14 AM
#342
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Is this WalMart BD reset a nationwide thing or is it regional? With WalMart, more than any other retailer, YMMV.
Also, I did see some very large UMD displays back in the day. Not this big though.
Also, I did see some very large UMD displays back in the day. Not this big though.
05-20-08 | 06:23 AM
#343
I don't believe the general public needs an "education" in HD. Most get it; they're just not video enthusiasts or movie hounds such as those of us who visit these boards. When the price of Blu comes down to around the level of DVD, they'll bite, and only because they can still play their DVDs on the new machine. And, I don't think that's being unreasonable.
05-20-08 | 07:37 AM
#344
DVD Talk Hero
You'd figure they would do the wise thing.. huge 1080p tv + blu + planet earth = sells itself
05-20-08 | 07:48 AM
#345
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Originally Posted by Pizza
I don't believe the general public needs an "education" in HD. Most get it; they're just not video enthusiasts or movie hounds such as those of us who visit these boards. When the price of Blu comes down to around the level of DVD, they'll bite, and only because they can still play their DVDs on the new machine. And, I don't think that's being unreasonable.
05-20-08 | 09:27 AM
#346
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
This is not a fire-sale. And as you could see from the pictures this isn't an end-cap.
No, I do not know how many they sold. What I know is that Walamart has designed an entirely new floor plan to promote the format. This will be a long term commitment not a temporary sale event.
It is ironic indeed. The only irony I detect however is that you can not recognize that Magnavox and Sylvania are not priced at 99$ and are not part of a short-term fire sale. The new floor plan will have a selection of BR machines, PS3 included.Pro-B
I see you have edited you're post from what you had originally said last night. Anyway, I'll keep you on block like before. There is no point in even replying to these posts.
05-20-08 | 09:29 AM
#347
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Is this WalMart BD reset a nationwide thing or is it regional? With WalMart, more than any other retailer, YMMV.
Also, I did see some very large UMD displays back in the day. Not this big though.
Also, I did see some very large UMD displays back in the day. Not this big though.
05-20-08 | 09:48 AM
#348
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
As-is 1 out of 3 Wal-Marts I visit (shudder) has the "cube" HD/BD display. All the movies are in nasty spider-like security devices to prevent theft.
05-20-08 | 09:48 AM
#349
Banned by request
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
There is no point in even replying to these posts.
05-20-08 | 09:58 AM
#350
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Originally Posted by jiggawhat
The sad part is that most of those HD-DVD players went back so your point is irrelevant.