But they have sold more than that number of PS3s. Again the "counting game" is very clouded by the "do's" and "do not's" of PS3 and BD.

You are right about the less than a million BD players sold. Anyone that replies with the total number of PS3 sold is also right.

ETA:
Further complicating things is that PS3 is seen as the defacto standard BD player. Right now, anyone would be crazy to buy any other model on the market, except at some ridiculous price. But this too is a double edged sword as BD runs the risk of being the next UMD, and when the pS3 hits with some more compelling software later this year, will BD sales wither and die just like UMD's sales did?

And yet Warner Brothers, Netflix, and now Best Buy will be shifting focus to Blu-ray only.

They still managed to outsell cheaper HD DVD players during Christmas.

That in itself should speak volumes.

Outselling 4 to 1 is only "marginally better."

One format, one market, one united family of distribs

Pro-B

Well, let's set aside format bickering for a moment.

Ever heard a Best Buy employee explain HD? Hehe. You go BB! You undo all that confusion. Knock. Yourself. Out.

Hell, they can't even get my in-store pickups done right. Really, how hard is this? And now they are supposed to lead the "unconfusion" of HD?

Thanks to Best Buy, consumers will be even more confused.

Leaving retail stores like BB to do the "explaining" of HD, is like letting your 97-year old grandma do the driving the next time you go shopping. Great experience for sure and it'll get the blood pumpin', but whether it helps your situation? Not so sure.

I don't really understand this comment. It's not like you save shelf space with one format. Those red cases of Transformers and The Bourne Ultimatium may change to Blue, but it won't save any space. And those Toshiba HD DVD players may become Toshiba Blu Ray players, but ot won't save any space.

Less choice and higher prices

I'll buy HD DVDs until they stop making them, guess it won't be at Best Buy though.

Jericho,

It's about where the money goes. Ever heard of Slot Fees? It's the same thing here. Blu-ray backers (such as Sony) are giving incentives (i.e., Slot Fees) to Best Buy and other merchants to display their product exclusively. They don't want the competition cutting into their format sales. So, in this case, it really does matter what is on the shelves. Sony doesn't want even a fraction of HD DVD sales being rung-up at the counter. They want ALL the shelf space. No competition. No other format. Only Blu-ray.

So, the retail stores, like Best Buy, are the means to an end. And they are willing participants.

Best Buy wants the cash for their shelf space, and they don't give a shit which format wins, and they see Blu-ray written on the walls as well, so they don't want to be left with an extinct product on their shelves (or the perception of it which leads to lower sales anyway), and getting less cash for that shelving space as well. They'd rather get the maximum $$$ for their shelving space, and Sony is certainly paying them for it (or could be heavily discounting Blu-ray titles--either way, Best Buy is saving money).

Well, I hope this means we'll see more HD-DVDs on sale at BB while they dump inventory rather than having to order everything from Amazon. Right now, all I'm seeing is BOGO on a real short list of titles. Granted, I still need Transformers and Bourne Ultimatum, but there's some catalog titles I really want.

My only concern is HD-DVD going the way of LD (bloody impossible to find a player for). It better not happen. VCRs are still pretty easy to come by, and that's a dead format. I don't want to be without a player anytime soon.

I'm confident we have enough of an HD DVD presence, that Toshiba will make a dual-format player, and LG and Samsung will make more quality combo players. If they don't? Well, I'll store my HD DVDs until I can transcode them myself...

Not sure why you quoted him and addressed format bickering. The above quote is his entire comment, hence, there was nothing that even remotely comes close to bickering. The poster simply echoed what others have already stated: this is a major announcement.


Yes, I have. And even though they do have some unqualified people on their team not every BB employee is a moron. As not every regular person is an idiot.

I am flabbergasted to read, daily, how ignorant and asinine the average consumer is according to this forum. Give it a rest, not every person out there who isn't a member of an online community is an idiot. I think.

Walmart hires plenty of individuals who can hardly even spell. Yet, they were touted on this forum as the major player of all players capable of deciding the war. At least at the time when they were set to promote HDDVD.


Hardly!


And letting internet boards lump everyone who does not contribute to them in the idiot box is as laughable of statement as I have ever read.

Pro-B

When it comes down to a difference of 4,000 copies to 1,000 copies (which is what we're facing with many catalog titles), yes that's pretty marginal.

Looks like someone is well on their way to becoming the Curator of HD-DVD Forever as well.

Well, maybe I chose the wrong word of "bickering". How about...touting.

However, my opinion of BB still stands. Most of them are idiots. And letting them "unconfuse" the potential HD consumer, is a fucking joke. How many BB stores have you been to? I've been to a shitload in my geographic area, when I find deals and choose in-store pickup. I could give you a novella's worth of stories of my experiences. Believe me, I'm not just throwing comments off the cuff of my internet sleeve.

There are some Best Buy employees on here, and I'm sorry to group you in with my comments if you consider yourself not a part of them. However, I've experienced enough to justify my comments.

And I'm flabbergasted to read, daily, the kinds of crap I see on commercial websites regarding Blu-ray as the only logical choice, and making the choice FOR the consumer.

He expressed excitement. Not sure why you are having an issue with his post? How else is one to respond to the news without being offensive to those who may think that the announcement is a letdown for their site?


Ok, most of BB's staff are idiots. I think that this is a very elitist opinion but it is what it is -- your opinion.

I live in an area only 10 min away from a BB and 20 min away from ABT.

Why do you believe that BB will be the only party "unconfusing" potential HD adopters. Did you have the same issue with the company when they opted to support SDVD over VHS?

You have a very negative opinion on everyone, anyone, and anything that has to do with BB.

There are at least two posters at DVDTALK that I know for a fact work part-time at BB. I am sorry to hear you believe the majority of them are a fucking joke.

I sympathize with your disappointment but disagree, which I hope you already know well enough.

Pro-B

After a half dozen failing formats it was only a matter of time before a.)they succeeded at one or b.)did everything but break the bank making one succeed.

Seems it's a little of both.

So, you believe when you walk into a BB, you'll get true facts about HD? Every single time? No prejudiced information? You won't hear the reason for Blu-ray being the "winner" was due to having a higher capacity therefore having higher quality movies? I heard that today, by the way when I picked up two HD DVD movies.

Or how about Blu-ray discs having a "harder" coating? I've heard that one, too. Because HD DVDs are more fragile, you know.

Or what about the reason why Blu-ray is better is because...well...more movie studios support it. I mean, is that a proper answer? And if you can tell me you don't hear this stuff at BB, then I guess I must be in the dumbest motherfuckin' geographical area in the US, if not, the world.

And that's just the format competition part. Now, let's get into the specifics of HD itself, and what it means.

A couple, mid-40's, is looking for an HDTV to play movies from a Blu-ray player (not yet purchased but will be with this HDTV). And no, I didn't fly over the shelves, screaming at them why they were going with Blu-ray. I listened.

The couple says they want a small HDTV because they don't want to remove their expensive all-wood shelving unit (can't remember if they said it was built-in to the wall of their living room or not). A 32" HDTV is suggested, and even a 26" HDTV (looked like a Samsung). What the fuck. The BB employee didn't even mention the factors of noticing HD material on a smaller size television. I can see it now. The couple spends around $1000 on HD equipment, go home, hook it up, and they look at each other and say, "I don't see much of a difference."

These are the types of comments and leadership in HD I'm talking about. In some ways, I don't really blame the BB employees, because for one, they don't get paid much, so where's the incentive, and second, they have propaganda being shoved in front of them in the first place to recite to the unsuspecting HD owner. Third, they don't have information in the first place. So, they make it up as they go along and/or get misinformation from other employees.

And don't play the Best Buy employee victimization routine. While we have a few BB employees on this forum, they are unfortunately a part of a retail entity that completely sucks ass when it comes to delivering information--or at least, accurate information.

This is why Best Buy announcing they want to end the HD confusion, is a joke to me. And I am most assurred, I am not alone in my experiences at Best Buy.

Pro-B, unless I'm mistaken, this thread is about....BEST BUY. The only reason why I am commenting on Best Buy, is because they made the goddamn announcement and it's specifically the reason for this thread. What the hell are you attempting to get at? You see, it's that type of implying, which frustrates not only myself, but others on this forum.

If it was Circuit City I'd say the same thing. But we don't have CC announcing they are unfconfuse the HD consumer on 2-11-2008, now do we.

But yes, I will say overall, the retail centers selling HD components, we find misinformed and uneducated individuals, who routinely give their consumers bad information--whether because of low pay, misinformation, or whatever else. In the high-end shops, it's even worse in some cases. So it's not just Best Buy. Ok?

But this thread is about Best Buy. I suppose if I commented about Circuit City, you'd say, "Hey, this thread is about Best Buy! Not Circuit City!"

You can spin the percentages all you want, but Best Buy gets four times more value from shelf space dedicated to Blu-ray than from HD-DVD.

Sounds like smart business to me.

This is totally anecdotal but my parents bought an HD set for their bedroom at BB about two weeks ago. It was a miserable experience to say the least. They still bought the TV because it was an open box at a decent price. I doubt they will ever step foot in a BB again though. The CS was a joke. They went to HH Gregg to essentially buy a different TV(and probably return the one to BB). The guy was well informed and helped teach them what they needed to know and didn't force anything on them. They ended up just keeping what they bought because of the price and not wanting to deal with BB customer service again.

There may be insightful and well educated BB employees, but they are definitely in the minority.

No. I believe that they provide a competitive solution to my needs. That is it.

Just as I don't believe all the, true or not, facts about HD posted on online forums.

BR discs do have a great addition which HDDVD does not, protective coating, and as I have stated numerous times on this forum and elsewhere I happen to be extremely fond of it. So, it is an aspect of HD that matters to some.

No need to overemphasize the importance of studio support but it appears that it was indeed a decisive factor in this war. I also share the opinion that BR has a superior manufacturer support. Hence, even if you aren't familiar at all with the current fiasco the fact that ALL major players (Matshushita/Panasonic; SONY; Phillips; SHARP) are in the BR camp and not in HDDVD's is indeed an issue to consider. This alone seems to be a great talking point for the red camp: consumer choice. Strangely, the fact that Toshiba is the only company producing their machines (with the other few whose market performance no one ever analyzed) does not appear to be as disturbing.

Great!

Some posters on this site claim that they are fine with films that aren't in the original aspect ratio or are close enough. They are already HD supporters. But..that is how the networks broadcast their films. Do you also have an issue with them? I do but I don't think that they are all a fucking joke.

People make up claims about pay-offs and so on on this site as well. I have issue with that as there aren't real facts to be discussed but it is what it is...I read DVDTALK.

I just find your characterization of Best Buy as the big, bad, and evil corporation on a mission to misinform prospective HD owners strange. And childish.

Not to me. Unlike some members here who are only concerned with instant gratification I am more interested in the long-term development of HD media. Furthermore, as I noted numerous times last year, I am interested in having one format, one market, and one unified family of distribs. Whether or not any move that promotes such a vision is deemed by a minority of early adopters as consumer-unfriendly and is a disappointment to them I recognize but deem insignificant given what is at stake.

I am not getting at anything. I am simply puzzled to read your extreme amusement and critique of Best Buy and their decision as the swing towards Blu-Ray has been evident elsewhere as well.

Pro-B

Minus the PS3, which most of the general populace is using strictly as a gaming console, HD-DVD sold about 50K more players (standalone) during the Holiday 2007 than standalone BR players.

I see most people that come into my friend's store are either using the PS3 strictly for just movies or strictly just for games. Very few are doing both with it. The PS3 numbers thrown in the mix make it that much harder to talk numbers on the HD Hardware. At least 75% of the people who got a PS3 that shop at my friends store have one and only one BR title - Spiderman 3. When asked why they don't purchase more BR discs, they say "why pay more for those when the regular DVD is half the price?"

I'm not saying this is a statement across the retail space, but looking at a small sample can tell you a lot about the big picture. Personally, I'll have both when it's all said and done. HD for now because it's cheap and upconverts well, and BR when a good 2.0 player gets around $150.

What's at stake. Ok, finally I can at least have a glimpse of your overall agenda. You really don't care about the consumer having these ill-informed experiences (you say minority) at retailers around the nation, because the ends justify the means. As long as there is one format, then everything is ok. Because one format, will make everything better.

I can't go for that. And that is where we disagree. Deep down, you don't mind forcing consumers to feast on one format. In the end, you feel it is worth it, because even though some may suffer, overall, it's better for the format's continued existence.

While I agree the HD format should continue, I disagree on the method.

Best Buy Co., Inc. (NYSE: BBY) is taking a step forward in addressing consumer confusion about high-definition formats. Beginning in early March, the leading consumer electronics retailer will prominently showcase Blu-ray hardware and software products in its Best Buy retail and online channels in the United States.

"Consumers have told us that they want us to help lead the way. We've listened to our customers, and we are responding. Best Buy will recommend Blu-ray as the preferred format," said Brian Dunn, Best Buy's president and chief operating officer. "Our decision to shine a spotlight on Blu-ray Disc players and other Blu-ray products is a strong signal to our customers that we believe Blu-ray is the right format choice for them."

---

Sounds like they want to forge the new frontier. Oh. Wait. Uh, with the blessing of all the customers who have wanted a savior to lead them in this dark night of HD format confusion, and who have been listened to by the HD Savior and Great Listener...Best Buy Does this not smack you in the face as a Warner Brothers clone press release, or what. I mean, this is like a political campaign, where one party uses virtually the same words. We'll probably see the same with future announcements from studios and retailers: "...because the consumer has told us..."

And I bolded an interesting part of the press release. I do see a pattern with some Blu-ray proponents. You and the press release sound very similar...we believe Blu-ray is the right format choice for them.

And that's the concentrated version of this format debate. Most HD DVD consumers do not like others telling them what is "right" or "best" for them.

P.S. If I think there is anything new to add if you respond, I'll have to do it later tomorrow.

Okay, you guys can choose to PM each other about this.