Gizmo

I don't own anything made by Panasonic (to my knowledge), and Sony + PS2 DRE issues make me want to never own any piece of equipment by them in my life. Once there is a suitable replacement for the PS3, I will be glad that I own nothing electronical made by Sony.

dsa_shea

Well, I bought a new player, A-30, at the very end of September of 2007 and it wouldn't play Shrek The Third on the day of release without an update. So I guess the "finished" specs don't really determine if a movie will play or not straight out of the case does it?

Gizmo

That's news to me. Shrek 3 played fine on my XA1 and my A3 (stupid Donkey Dance crap girlfriend wanted to see) without the need of an update. Anyone else have this issue or just you?

A search on AVS shows not a single person having to update their A3x or any machine to play Shrek 3. Now, maybe your player you bought new had the original launch firmware still on it, but as far as I can tell, it never required one from launch day to work. Hell Shrek 3 worked fine on my 2.2 (or 2.3 cant remember now) XA1 firmware unit when I bought it used.

TheMovieman

Nope. My copy of Shrek 3 played fine on the A2 and A3. Only issues I've had have been with the combo discs.

dsa_shea

I don't know if anyone else had a problem or not. But this goes to show that there will always be problems with individual players and certain titles no matter what format we are talking about. That is why you should love technology but not as much as you love your girlfriend. I understand that HD-Dvd has finished specs but it didn't make the systme immune from problems. As a matter of fact I have had far more playback problems like skipping, freezing and error codes, on HD-Dvd than Blu-Ray and I own close to double the number of titles on Blu-Ray.

Gizmo

So because 1 out of thousands have an issue that HD DVD is just as bad as Blu-ray when thousands of people can't play a movie 2 months later?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=938053
1 Person in that thread has issues with Shrek 3 and it was because their firmware was out of date. They updated and it was fine. An update that was available weeks before the movie even came out (if we believe its just an update and not a finicky disk).

Now, are those people that own Samsungs enjoying Live Free, Resident Evil Extinction etc....yet? YET? Nope.

dsa_shea

Don't buy Samsung. As a matter of fact I woudln't have bought a Toshiba HD-Dvd player had there been other companies making HD-Dvd players. I think their products are second rate but that is my opinion.

Hammer99

To each his own. I would love to be able to dropkick my Toshiba A1 out the door and finally cleanse my gear 100%, but then I'd have all these HD DVDs sitting here with nothing to play them on.

And no, a Sammy or LG dual-format player is not an acceptable replacement to me.... no more crap.

Hammer99

Very sound advice. Caveat emptor, I say.

RoboDad

Why do you persist in your scathing (yet misplaced) indictment of the entire Blu-ray format based on one hardware manufacturer's inability to follow a published spec? Are Sony and Panasonic owners enjoying those titles? Yep.

You have repeated several times that the Blu-ray spec is not "finished". This is simply untrue. Profile 2.0 is done. It's been in manufacturers' hands for months. Just because you don't have it in your hands doesn't make it unfinished.

You also claimed that DVD never experienced such growing pains. This is also patently false. In fact, Toshiba was the absolute worst of all the player manufacturers for the first several years of the DVD formats life. Numerous players (mostly from Toshiba, but also from a few other manufacturers) were unable to play many discs, and even several firmware upgrades didn't fix some of their problems.

RoboDad

My sentiments exactly. The A1 (which, I believe, falls into the "every HD DVD player from day one" category) is still giving many people fits with some discs, and new firmware updates for that model are few and far between now.

whomod

To answer your question. I'm underwhelmed overall. Not just in picture quality. I'm underwhelmed with the performance of the players. I've already gone thru 2 Blu's before I just threw my hands up in disgust with their profile nonsense.

I was underwhelmed with a video game console being the best player out on the market. A bulky ugly one at that. In my living room, my 360 DOES NOT make an appearance. A PS3 would be just as out of place.

I'm underwhelmed by the arguments that Blu is better. Gizmo is making a real good case and I agree with every word he says. Everyone is quick to talk about how EVENTUALLY Blu will work the kinks out and that DVD had similar growing pains. With HD-DVD, all the major growing pains were with their 1st gen player. After that, it was just a matter of some firmware upgrades. With Blu, we're talking about having to buy entirely new players down the road. I know I'm not made of money and neither is the vast majority of people out there. If anything is going to hinder the growth of HD, it's THAT. Not 2 competing formats. It's the fact that the winning format, a format people will thus assume is the superior one, can't even do what an average HD-DVD player can as of yet.

As for the specs, i'm not a tech person mind you but all the codec controversy hasn't eased my mind about Blu either. I just know what I THINK looked better when I made my initial choice. One that I wasn't at all disappointed with. Not like when I actually dipped my toe into Blu ray. THAT was disappointment and not because I'm loyal to HD-DVD. Just because I realized the better choice was no longer a choice.

My HD-DVD on a purely intuitive level, never mind the technical stuff, is just a very elegant machine (Toshiba HD-A20), in looks, in performance, functionality and picture quality. The (more expensive) Blu's I've used so far just feel as if they're basic. And just barely.Anyone who's ever bought tech can hopefully understand what I'm saying.

I guess it's like owning a nice BMW and then having someone come along and tell you they will no longer service it but you're free now to get a MORE expensive Ford Escort basic which is the better car overall, don't 'cha know. And you'll have to PAY MORE FOR IT than you did the BMW!

EDIT:

Going over the online petition, it's amusing to see the Blu trolls signing to slag HD-DVD with such insightful commentary like 'BLU ROOOOOLLLZZZ!". Overall, all it does it inflate the totals further as I'm sure any potential delivery of the results to Warner isn't going to be met with someone reading each and every statement. It's just amusing to see is all...

Gizmo

Oh, I see, so lets forget about anyone that buys a player that is not a Sony or Panasonic. You are singling out two out of 6 CEs that currently make players. Forgot about LG, Samsung, Sharp, and Pioneer, right? Who cares if those people own a player, screw them and there issues! They should have known better!

Profile 2.0 is not done. Do I see any Profile 2.0 discs right now? Nope. Do you?
What players can use 2.0 discs to its full advantage...? Oh, JUST the PS3! Every other player being sold right now can't use 100% of Profile 2.0 discs.

As for DVD issues, there were not profile messes like there is with Blu-ray. There were not movies that refused to play on certain players like there are right now with Blu-ray players. Hell, Ive been into DVD since early 1999 and Ive NEVER updated the firmware on any of my 10+ players Ive owned and they all played each and every disc I threw at them, including my $200 region free Circuit City Apex player I still use to this day. Ive owned Toshiba, Samsung, Apex, Insignia, Panasonic etc.

Your trying to compare a format like DVD that could allow some growing pains because it was the best logical way for movies on home video to continue. The advantages were numerous. Blu-ray/HD DVD only has a few advantages and DVDs are "good enough" for 99% of people. That can't have these issues if they want to replace DVD.

Gizmo

My XA1 is currently playing Zodiac, which just came out, using Firmware 2.7 which came out in November 2007. How is the Samsung 1400 handling those Fox movies with no new firmware update in sight? How about the 1200? How about the UP5000? How about the LG1000? LG2000? How about...

Just so you know, most firmware updates just fixes bugs and what not. The ones on HD DVD have not only been doing that, but giving us extra features that were not promised to us when buying them (i.e. black over black etc). You can feel free to badmouth HD DVD all you want, but just know that the next firmware update from Samsung will be to fix movies to be able to play, not bug fixes and additional stuff like the HD DVD ones.

Hammer99

I don't think Zodiac is a combo though... most likely no one had to boil it in water to get it to play.

RoboDad

Just so you know, I'm not "badmouthing" HD DVD. I've been an HD DVD owner since day one. But I'm not so blinded by hatred as to be unable to see its failures and shortcomings. And FWIW, the HD-A1 is a failure as a player, for me. I haven't even used it in almost a year. I was forced to buy another player to get one that would actually work most of the time.

dsa_shea

I agree 100%. People need to realize that there are still uncertainties with both formats. At one point the momentum had to go towards one. Now that the momentum is going towards Blu I can see the manufacturers of the players working out the existing flaws. If you are uncomfortable with this then just don't buy, but arguing that "HD-Dvd is better" will not change anything that has happened.

RoboDad

If you want to carry on a civil discussion, you should probably try avoiding such incendiary statements as this one. Just FYI.

QuePaso

I think the point here is, Samsung sucks. Do not judge the format on players made by Korean companys. Samsung constantly uses Broadcom hardware vs Sigma chipsets in all the "good" japanese players. Which is why they have issues. I also hope someone here isnt claiming that ALL HD DVD players play all discs. There is a handful of discs the Xbox 360 HD DVD Addon refuses to play and microsoft refuses to issue a firmware update due to fears of bricking the drive. Newer HD DVD Addons have the new firmware and play the discs now. Why isnt this person so Gung Ho about these flaws?

mzupeman2

Yeah, that's true. Samsung does suck.

But at this stage of the game, Blu-Ray won and hell, there really isn't even THAT reliable of a player yet out on the market. The BD30 is out, and that's the best so far. I think I may wait for the BD50 comes out and get that. And to be fair about the 360 add-on, it is an add-on. We're discussing stand-alone BR players here. And as far as they go, I'm hearing by far, the best things about the Panasonics. Which doesn't surprise me... panasonic products have never been an issue for me.

As far as the comments about HD-DVD not being a finished spec because it needs a firmware update once in a while... I think the big issue people are talking about are the earlier blu-ray players not being completely compatible with the future discs that will be coming out with 1.1 and Blu-Ray Live (2.0).

darkside

This is one thing I can agree on. If the Blu-ray problems are mostly with Samsung and LG players then the lesson is stop buying players from Korean companies. If LG and Samsung have taught me anything its not to ever buy their products.

darkside

Neither of those is 1st tier. When I think 1st tier and reliable I think Denon, Pioneer Elite, maybe Onkyo with some products though that is pushing it. Panasonic and Sony are both mass market and 2nd tier at best.

Gizmo

I've never had issues with LG products...but I would never tough their Gen1 Dual player.

tylergfoster

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Basically this post reads to me like 'people who support HD-DVD should have free speech and Blu-Ray supporters shouldn't'. Now, I'll admit that you didn't actually ask us to clam up, but in so many words you've suggested that it's wrong for people who genuinely believe Warner made the smartest decision for everyone to thank them, which is crap. The idea that people who think Warner are wrong should speak up and people who support their decision need to shut the hell up is just plain stupid.

Sorry, there will always be people who disagree with your opinion. You think Warner made the wrong decision, many think Warner made the right one, and neither of us has the higher ground to suggest the other one is talking too loudly.

whomod

Sorry you would think that I was stifling free speech. That wasn't my point or my inention.

What I'm saying is that if this is all so final and irreversible the why are people essentially trying to counter any action by a counter action to Warner Customer service and why even bother with denouncements and discouragement?

If it's so inevitable and pointless, then the pro HD people are essentially wasting their time. No need for counter protests or discouragements.


Which is another way of saying that deep down, I do think some people think it may make a difference. Otherwise they wouldn't even bother to post. It's certainly not me telling anyone what to do. It's just an observation.