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Warner, New Line, Paramount, Universal ... The Studios/Networks Thread - Part 2

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Warner, New Line, Paramount, Universal ... The Studios/Networks Thread - Part 2

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Old 01-14-08 | 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cardaway
I also believe there are enough people out there unwilling to go VOD to keep hard copy format alive. A combination of people who are not connected, not connected at fast enough speeds, or just simply like the idea of having the hard copy. Can't blame them IMO given the prices of high speed internet and digital cable/satellite services.
Yep, that would be me, too.

I will have no problem signing up for a VOD rental service. But treating that as my collection? Never gonna happen.

If these guys are smart, they'll see the difference, and exploit it. Imagine this scenario. Netflix starts a new service where you pay a monthly fee, and can have X number of movies downloaded to your VOD device at any given time (or maybe you can have more, but you can't watch any new downloads until you delete enough older ones), but otherwise it works just like the current Netflix model. You queue things up, and when you are eligible to view a new rental title, then BAM, it's there. None of this "you have 48 hours to watch the movie before it is auto-deleted" crap, just limit what you can rent/view until you delete previous rentals.

And then for movies that people would want to collect, the full-featured SE is still available for purchase on Blu-ray (or at least some physical HDM format that you hold in your hand and call your own).

Under that model, I could see myself renting a LOT more, but still collecting the movies that are really important to me. And, as I rent more, I might see movies that I would otherwise have missed, realize that I want them in my collection, and go buy the SE to get the extras. Everyone wins.

Last edited by RoboDad; 01-14-08 at 02:42 PM.
Old 01-14-08 | 02:42 PM
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^ At the end of the VOD movie or when you stop it at the end, it says....

"Did you like this movie? If so, click the thumbs up three times to purchase this film through amazon.com and have it shipped directly to you."

(Of course, integration with Tivo would be AWESOME)
Old 01-14-08 | 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by namja
We're getting solid state drives. Reliability is going to be a non-factor soon.
Soon? Have you priced solid state harddrives? They are not going to be affordable soon. Especially if we start needing Terabytes of storage capacity for HD movies.

I am fine with the idea of VOD for rentals. If Sony adds this to the PS3 I will definitely rent HD movies with my PS3. Keeping my whole collection this way is not going to happen though.

No way the idea of storing hundreds of movies on multiple harddrives will ever appeal to me. If I wanted to do something like that I would just do it now with bit torrent and stop buying movies, but the idea doesn't even appeal to me for free movies much less movies they want me to pay $20 for.

I don't see this catching on over the next few years. Too many storage and bandwith issues to work out. Discs are not going away. I think it could develop into a viable rental service and Netflix and cable and satellite TV providers are already on board for making that the future of rentals.
Old 01-14-08 | 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RockStrongo
^ At the end of the VOD movie or when you stop it at the end, it says....

"Did you like this movie? If so, click the thumbs up three times to purchase this film through amazon.com and have it shipped directly to you."
Now you're talking! See, with the RIGHT model, mass acceptance of VOD could be incredible. They could even work out affiliate/partnership relationships with Amazon or other retailers to provide a minimal discount if you buy the movie after watching the VOD version.
Old 01-14-08 | 02:53 PM
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For me, it's not a collection thing. I would love to gain some space by reducing the number of movies on my shelves. I would have no problem with my DVD Profiler online collection being the only way to see my collection.

The problem is the releability and cost. Right now, even after paying the price I pay per month for Comcast Digital Cable, they still want to charge me to see most HD movies on demand. No way I'm paying to watch something only once, and even then it might crap out midway through the movie. Not when the relative price of buying the hard copy is not THAT much more.

Now that might just be my wallet talking. People who make more might be willing to pay for a lot more VOD and the montly price, but I far more are on the other end. Not willing to pay the price that makes VOD an option int he first place.

We make pretty good money, but even I get sticker shock when I hear the monthly amount we pay for cable and internet rounded up to a yearly cost. Ouch.
Old 01-14-08 | 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cardaway
For me, it's not a collection thing. I would love to gain some space by reducing the number of movies on my shelves. I would have no problem with my DVD Profiler online collection being the only way to see my collection.
Reducing, I agree with, but I will not want to completely eliminate all of the movies on my shelf. Ever. My 4-disc LOTR EE sets are, well, precious to me. My perception is that it's like books. For some books, I would have no problem reading them on an e-book reader (books that I would be more likely to buy in paperback and then sell to a used book store, for example), but there are many books that I want to have on the shelf. It's the same with movies. There are many movies that are "paperback" movies to me. I will never want to watch them more than once. But there are many movies that are important enough that I will always want to collect them in physical form.
Old 01-14-08 | 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Draven
It continues to bother me that PS3 purchases are automatically lumped into the "total amount of Blu-ray players sold" category. I understand why they do it, but it bugs me.

It's completely plausible that someone could buy a PS3 and never stick a Blu-ray movie inside. To them it's not a Blu-ray player, it's a game machine. It's not an automatic "all PS3 buyers prefer Blu-ray over HD DVD!!!" situation.
After a point, it makes sense to me. Whenever they started giving out five free BDs with every unit, that automatically, at the very least, makes people aware it plays movies, and who's going to turn down five free DVDs, whether they're hi-def or not -- you have the PS3, you can play them, maybe you don't own them, and they're free, so why not?

Sure, there are probably people who don't actively use it, but I would say since the whole giving-five-away-free thing started I imagine literally 99% of the consumers who have bought it starting at that point have tried it at least once.
Old 01-14-08 | 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
Reducing, I agree with, but I will not want to completely eliminate all of the movies on my shelf. Ever. My 4-disc LOTR EE sets are, well, precious to me. My perception is that it's like books. For some books, I would have no problem reading them on an e-book reader (books that I would be more likely to buy in paperback and then sell to a used book store, for example), but there are many books that I want to have on the shelf. It's the same with movies. There are many movies that are "paperback" movies to me. I will never want to watch them more than once. But there are many movies that are important enough that I will always want to collect them in physical form.
I can see that. The extended LOTR is also a pretty good example. They're as close to a work of art as disc pagkaging gets. I'm sure you're not alone.

But as somebody who had their FOTR green box spine fade into a second blue spine, I wouldn't mind giving up all packaging.

Or at least make it a LOT smaller. If they can do it for video games (Nintendo DS games come on something almost as small as an SD card) why not movies?
Old 01-14-08 | 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cardaway
Or at least make it a LOT smaller. If they can do it for video games (Nintendo DS games come on something almost as small as an SD card) why not movies?
Theft would be a problem. They'd probably have to lock up all their movies or put them in those outer cases used for video games. By the time they do that, what's the point of smaller cases?

They can do it for games because they carry a limited number of them, and the margins are higher so they can justify the expense of protective casing/locked storage.
Old 01-14-08 | 04:06 PM
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08012/848675-96.stm

In the past I have strongly recommended the HD DVD format as the best choice for consumers. Surprising developments this month led Warner Bros. to drop support for the format, which likely will lead to a Blu-ray victory in the format war. I started receiving inside information about a week before it happened and will recount the story here.

Warner Bros. publishes on both HD DVD and Blu-ray and found the "format war" was not only slowing the adoption of high-definition discs, but also hurting their regular DVD sales -- clearly an untenable situation for them. They wanted to bring the format war to a quick close by picking a side.

If they chose HD DVD, studio support would be roughly equal but would likely go HD DVD's way eventually, as Warner is the biggest producer of high-definition discs. If they chose Blu-ray, studio support for Blu-ray would be lopsided and the war would end more quickly.

When rumors started flying publicly, I e-mailed Jim Noonan, a Warner Bros. vice president, who immediately replied that they had not decided to change their policy. A WB executive in New Zealand issued an even stronger public statement denying imminent changes.

Obviously, they had decided to change -- they just didn't know the direction. Given their long partnership, Warner gave Toshiba an opportunity to lure a Blu-ray studio to HD DVD, in which case they would go HD DVD exclusive and give HD DVD a clear studio advantage. A deal was nearly secured with Fox, which had been having trouble with Blu-ray disc production due to the lack of manufacturing infrastructure. At the 11th hour, Fox went to Sony with its concerns and received a reported $120 million payout to stay with Blu-ray.

With no studio joining them on the HD DVD side, Warner's hand was forced and it went with Blu-ray, receiving a reported $500 million for doing so.

Obviously I am saddened by the implications for my readers, the industry and consumers, but still believe I recommended the better, more solid format, which was much more affordable, as well.

I was at their booth at the Consumer Electronics Show and regretted I could not find a single stand-alone player worthy of recommendation -- and if HD DVD goes away, the cost of entry to high-definition movies will be doubled. It's sad for the consumer, really.

My mind and my heart were in agreement that HD DVD was the way to go. To not recommend HD DVD would not be true to my own convictions, and it would be unfair of me to not recognize Toshiba's accomplishment in bringing an affordable, fully developed product to market.

Many in the industry agreed with me, and no one in the media expected Warner to pull the plug so quickly when HD DVD stand-alones were selling so well this holiday season. As for my future course, I will recommend the Playstation 3 to people who want Blu-ray until fully specified Blu-ray Profile 2.0 players are available and their performance matches the PS3
PIttsburgh Post-Gazette columnist Don Lindich reports a dirty bit about Warner's defection to Blu-ray that we had uncovered in our own reporting of the format war at CES, and which we had confirmed through a different source (except for the payout numbers), though were holding close to our chest while we worked some other angles. Warner actually wanted to go HD DVD. They gave Toshiba the chance to bring another studio into the HD DVD camp before they turned Blu. Fox was lined up, and told the HD DVD camp it was going to switch to HD DVD, which would've also turned Warner exclusively HD DVD. At the last possible minute, it nixed the deal.

Lindich says it's because Fox received a reported $120 million payout from Sony to stay Blu-ray—Warner then switched and received between $400 and $500 million for its defection. BW says it's closer to $400 million. In our phone call with Warner Kevin Tsujihara said it wasn't a bidding war that brought them over—that's true, in the words of Ben Kenobi, from a certain point of view.
Ouch if this is true considering all the Blu-ray "insiders" are claiming there was no such payout and Fox NEVER had any interest in HD DVD at all. Wonder if any "insiders" will comment on this or just call it lies?
Old 01-14-08 | 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Ouch if this is true considering all the Blu-ray "insiders" are claiming there was no such payout and Fox NEVER had any interest in HD DVD at all. Wonder if any "insiders" will comment on this or just call it lies?
My guess is that there was no cash payment, but they probably got hundreds of millions in other incentives/subsidies. Hence, at the press conferences, they can say that they got no money from Sony. Maybe Sony will pay for all the equipment cost related to manufacturing BDs; and they may even subsidize them with $/disc up to a certain point. Or maybe Fox/WB meant that they didn't get paid ... yet ... but they will be getting paid in the future. Who knows. But there are many ways of "paying" Fox & WB without cash exchanging hands.
Old 01-14-08 | 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by namja
My guess is that there was no cash payment, but they probably got hundreds of millions in other incentives/subsidies. Hence, at the press conferences, they can say that they got no money from Sony. Maybe Sony will pay for all the equipment cost related to manufacturing BDs; and they may even subsidize them with $/disc up to a certain point. Or maybe Fox/WB meant that they didn't get paid ... yet ... but they will be getting paid in the future. Who knows. But there are many ways of "paying" Fox & WB without cash exchanging hands.
Oh, I fully understand that and believe its exactly what happened with Paramount/Dreamworks. But for the Blu-ray "insiders" to claim nothing like this happened (payouts/Fox switcheroo) is just plain crazy.
Old 01-14-08 | 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Ouch if this is true considering all the Blu-ray "insiders" are claiming there was no such payout and Fox NEVER had any interest in HD DVD at all. Wonder if any "insiders" will comment on this or just call it lies?
i can understand why that story is initially compelling, but really, what difference would it make if the insiders called it lies or if they said, "yep, the BDA paid them bigtime! deal with it."

the fact is, Warner is Blu-ray exclusive as of the end of may and we will probably never know everything that went into that decision.
Old 01-14-08 | 04:49 PM
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Sounds to me like Fox leveraged Toshiba against Sony so they could get their BD concerns addressed.
Old 01-14-08 | 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Oh, I fully understand that and believe its exactly what happened with Paramount/Dreamworks. But for the Blu-ray "insiders" to claim nothing like this happened (payouts/Fox switcheroo) is just plain crazy.
Yeah...but do we care anymore?
Old 01-14-08 | 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Yeah...but do we care anymore?
Care? Not really...but I am interested from a business point-of-view.

The payout we should be concerned about (that hasn't occurred yet, but seems inevitable) is the one to Toshiba.
Old 01-14-08 | 05:32 PM
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As a consumer, I'm interested in the payout to ME. WHERE'S MY MONEY???!!!!
Old 01-14-08 | 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Yeah...but do we care anymore?
Maybe you don't.
Old 01-14-08 | 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Sounds to me like Fox leveraged Toshiba against Sony so they could get their BD concerns addressed.
Agreed. I don't think there was ever a legit chance of Fox moving over, but it was obvious they were unhappy about a number of things.
Old 01-14-08 | 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Drexl
Theft would be a problem. They'd probably have to lock up all their movies or put them in those outer cases used for video games.
Sadly, that's a very good point. I can't think of even one place that doesn't have the DS games locked up or behind the counter. Not a very good statement about society.

But I still wonder; is that something unique to games and theft stats on games? Would they need they really need to lock up movies if the cases were a little smaller than the BD cases?

When I got some BD's at TRU duing their b1g1 sale all the BD's were in those larger game theft protection devices. They are the only store I've seen do thatwith BD's. Theft protection levels seems to be all over the place depending on the store and their location.

Last edited by cardaway; 01-14-08 at 06:29 PM.
Old 01-14-08 | 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08012/848675-96.stm





Ouch if this is true considering all the Blu-ray "insiders" are claiming there was no such payout and Fox NEVER had any interest in HD DVD at all. Wonder if any "insiders" will comment on this or just call it lies?
I have no doubt there was some dealing going on behind the scenes, my problem with both of these articles state that Fox received a reported $120 million. Where has this been reported? I've never seen any confirmation or reputable source report that this has actually happened.
Old 01-14-08 | 06:08 PM
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Are we reporting the news that Warner almost went HD-DVD AGAIN!? How old can this news get before we can't possibly report it some more?
Old 01-14-08 | 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bretski
The payout we should be concerned about (that hasn't occurred yet, but seems inevitable) is the one to Toshiba.
Why do you care about that? Seriously, why should consumers care whether a studio was paid off? Businesses make deals like that all the time.
Old 01-14-08 | 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by namja
Why do you care about that? Seriously, why should consumers care whether a studio was paid off? Businesses make deals like that all the time.
Weren't a lot of Blu-ray supporters crying foul at the Paramount pay-off?

I think it's mostly a reaction to that.
Old 01-14-08 | 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by namja
Why do you care about that? Seriously, why should consumers care whether a studio was paid off? Businesses make deals like that all the time.
seriously, no one complains when Coca-Cola or Kellogg "pay off" supermarkets to market their products on the end of the aisles.


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