Just like the vague statement from Paramount, Universal also leaves out the word "exclusive" in their statement today. They're going to do just like WB. They will support HD DVD for a few months while transition to BD. That's the right thing to do, especially since there were many new HD DVD owners over the holidays.

I'm only one person, but I bought the PS3 primarily for the Blu-ray player and upconverting of DVDs, knowing that it would continue to get support from Sony for future upgrades (versus previously shipping hardware). The gaming part was just icing on the cake.

Do you read what people post? I'm not saying the PS3 is only a game machine. I'm saying the majority that buy one are doing so to play games. That is why the attach rate (which matters despite your dismissal) is so low.

Sure people buy them for movies and more may do so as the price drops and the war ends, but your anecdotal evidence is not backed up by the fact that movies are not the main focus of the PS3. The best selling games have sold 2-3 times what the few successful BD movies have sold (even though they cost 3 times as much) and those also get bought by non PS3 owners.

BTW, calling a video game system that plays movies a "video game system" is not an insult. We have all talked about how great of a BD and DVD player it is.

[QUOTE=Patman]Posted by MrDs10e

"The PS3 is a game system, and people buy it primarily to play games. "

theflyingdutch countered with:

"You are totally and completely wrong."

The contention can then be read as:

"The PS3 is a blu-ray player, and people buy it primarily to play blu-ray discs."

I must have missed it. What the hell is an "attach rate" supposed to be and how in the hell does it matter?

Most of the people who have supported BD have bought PS3s because of the fact Sony has put in so much quality into the player from the first. Anyone buying into BD and not buying PS3 is not getting a player that can roll with the times. As for people talking about how great a BD player it is, all I've heard from many on these forums who support HD-DVD is that the PS3 is just a game player that, by the way, can play BDs.

Let's get real, for the vast majority of PS3 owners, it's a videogame console that Sony shoehorned blu-ray capabilities into it, to deny otherwise is to reveal a blu streak very wide. Sony has huge financial reasons to get blu-ray into home by any means necessary, and the PS3 was supposed to be a killing stroke, but time has not been kind to the relative success of the PS3 as a videogame console (lagging behind the Wii, but doing okay against the Xbox), so it sure is awesome that it happens to also play blu-ray discs to bolster that product format launch these 15 months.

BTW, full disclosure, I'm purple.

Attach rate is basically how many BDs were sold divided by the number of BD players sold (and with PS3 representing a huge majority of "BD" players sold), the attach rate isn't all that great since it's about 1BD per BD player sold. HD DVD has an attach rate near 4, which means for every dedicated HD DVD player sold, 4 HD DVDs have been sold (bear in mind that HD DVD players don't also play games, people are buying it specifically to play HD DVDs, the same can't be said about the PS3 where its use can vary between only PS3 games, only BDs, or a mixture of both)

So the question is still: should the PS3 be considered solely as a BD player as some have contended, a BD player that happens to play PS3 videogames, or a PS3 videogame console that happens to also allow BD playback?

Attach rates are how much software is sold per hardware unit on the market. It is used a lot in the video game world. For instance despite the Wii outselling the 360 in the US it has a much lower attach rate so the 360 is really the more successful console from the software side which is where most of the money is made.

The only reason it got brought up in this discussion is the ridiculous comment that the PS3 is not primarily a game machine which is ludicrous. It has an attach rate for movies of about 1 movie sold per PS3 and over 4 games sold per machine not even counting downloadable game titles.

The weird thing is there is no shame in that. BD is still relatively young and growing so obviously the Playstation brand would be sought after more for its gaming legacy. I think more and more people will buy them for movies, but Sony also needs it to be a huge success as a gaming platform.

Sure many of us bought the PS3 because it turned out to be a very well made and reliable player and we know it will get updates. Again no one is really arguing that. However, I think you are being a bit insulting by slamming people for buying a standalone. The PS3 is definitely not for everyone and many seem to be happy with the Panasonic and don't want a Playstation in their home theater.

I think you are imaging all these PS3 bashers because this forum has pretty much praised the PS3 for over a year as an outstanding BD player. That doesn't change the fact its a game system and I don't understand your issue with the fact that gaming is still its primary function no matter how good it is at multimedia.

Well the PS3 is a difficult beast to pigeonhole. Of everyone who bought it, some use it just for games. Some use it just for movies. Some use it for both. More people use it for games than movies. And because of these kinds of people, the attach rate on a PS3 is low. But it's a bogus statistic, since you're counting people who never intended to use the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player in the data. Of course they aren't going to buy many movies, if any.


For PS3 users, a majority of them use it more for games. So it's a gaming machine. But the sheer volume of PS3s in the marketplace is huge. And the minority of users who use it for Blu-Ray look relatively large when compared to other standalone high def players. So relative to the HDM market, the PS3 is a very successful Blu-Ray player. So basically, it is both. No need to be one or the other.

Thanks for the great reply and defintion.

Pretty strange term. Sounds more like something that would pertain to how many actually stay hooked up vs. put aside a few months later.

I now have to agree with the others who said the measure is totally bogus. Just looking at the game console comparison; In many cases Wii's are bought by parents for little kids and the most popular games for PS3 and 360's shouldn't be played by little kids. Completely different target demographics. There is simply no apples to apples comparions to be made there IMO

Trying to throw movie sales in the mix just makes it that much worse.

Exactly. This was Sony's plan all along. Most will buy it for games, some for movies and some for both. However, those that got it just for one may in time get drawn into the other and it could be a huge crossover success for Sony.

The only issue as a Blu-ray player is how small the market is. If that market takes off and grows then movie sales could become the majority of its use and income for Sony. Right now Sony is in a tough spot where the BD market is still in its infancy and they are in a tough fight with Microsoft and Ninendo.

They actually gave up a large share of their gaming dominance to try and win this BD war. They have to hope BD does become successful and they need to get their gaming division in gear to catch the competition. There is definitely a chance both could happen, but we probably won't know for sure until the end of the year.

Maybe, but I believe the attach rate for the Wii is higher than the PS3 so Sony has work to do in this department to catch their real competition of Microsoft who I believe has an attach rate around 10.

To be fair though the PS3 is also in competition with the PS2 so you probably should add the game sales of those two together which helps Sony overall.

Put it this way. What's the average number of Blu-ray movies a PS3 owner has versus a typical HD DVD owner who owns an HD DVD player. While none of us really know (unless someone wants to find the stats), my point is, you only need one title purchased from every PS3 owner to make it look like Blu-ray is so successful. But this is misleading. And it's misinforming. Some say it might be even disinforming.

We need more than just PS3 owners to build the foundation for HD.

No. I don't hate PS3 machines. I don't hate PS3 owners. I'm just not a PS3 or Xbox fan because the games are about twice as much as an HD movie at MSRP. I'm a PC Gamer.

Along the lines of PS3 - game or movie machine? - what do people think the over/under is on when they will start inclduing the Bluetooth remote standard? I think at the latest we will see bundles that come with movies and the remote by X-Mas '08. Basically the next version of the recent Spider-Man promotion.

Of course the Wii is higher. Check out the attention span of the many young kids playing those Wii games. They either play it for a short amount of time, get bored, and want a new game. Or they play it almost 24/7, finish the game, and then want a new one. Not that different than many adults , but in the case of the Wii, I don't think people can ignore that in most cases the primary demographic doesn't buy their own games. Most older teens and young adults have to budget their game playing a lot closer.

How could you not? The last store I was in still had more PS2 games than PS3 games.

Sony doesn't give things away unless they think consumers need the "push" in terms of incentives/extras. If they are giving things away, it's because the market is soft for the PS3 (especially if they are trying to position it as a BD player). If it was as "desirable" as the Wii, Sony wouldn't have to put in the extras. You don't see Nintendo putting 2 sets of wiimotes/nunchuks just to move Wii consoles. They don't because they don't need to for the units to sell at MSRP.

Does anyone know if you can use a Best Buy reward zone 12% or 10% off coupon to buy a PS3 when the coupon prohibits its use on video game hardware/consoles? From what I've read, the answer is in the negative because Best Buy considers the PS3 a videogame console, and the margins on videogame hardware is not as high as the other stuff they let you use the coupon on in their stores.

But that's because the PS2 has had about a decade long run, so there are so many more games for it. The PS3 has only been around since November of 2006.

I see your point, but that's only because the Wii doesn't double as anything.
Even the 360 requires the add on drive for movies. Again, I see no apples to apples here.

Obviously.

That Xbox 360 HD DVD addon is specifically for HD DVD playback, no videogames use that drive to play videogames. So a Xbox 360 HD DVD addon should be counted as a HD DVD player "sale" only.

Why? It's not like the addon can work without the main unit. It's why even after the addon came out I still wouldn't touch the 360 given the unreliable main unit. Not worth the risk.

You buy the Xbox 360 HD DVD addon only to play HD DVDs. I'm not sure where's the disconnect? Also, with proper drivers and software, you can also use the addon on a PC via the USB port to play HD DVDs. Either way, its purchase is solely to playback HD DVDs, not videogames, this is not so clear with the purchase of a PS3 where its use can be either BD playback or videogames or both in terms of function.

Wow. Went to Best Buy today. They used to have three shelves each for BD and HD-DVD. Now, four are for BD and two for HD-DVD. They hadn't even changed the section's label yet which still said HD-DVD, but was stocked with BD.