A few words...
 

I’ve thought about what it would take for me to stop posting in the HD section for quite some time now. Would it be an end to the HD fiasco or would it be an irreversible disagreement with how far “discussions” go? Or, would it be a realization that there are people on this forum whose proclaimed “neutrality” is nothing more than a convenient platform for an endless format negativity I am not willing to consistently address?

At this point it is much more than that and I believe that it will be a long time before I heal my disappointment.

Before I exit the forum I would like to clarify a few things so there isn’t any confusion amongst those who read this text and might be uncertain about the motives behind my decision to depart the HD section of TALK.

1. Unlike the numerous insinuations and claims at TALK that I, directly or indirectly, have vested interest in SONY and the BR format in particular the reality is that I do not. I don’t benefit from the two financially. Yet, I continue to receive private emails urging me to acknowledge that I am being paid. My exit of this forum should make it obvious whether or not I was sincere about what I have posted previously.


2. I see double standards in how discussions are directed here. There are too many people who act from a position of “neutrality” to justify an attitude I am no longer willing to tolerate. Suffice to say, sooner rather than later, the consensus some of the moderators are willing to promote will be easily achieved. “Thinkers”, regardless of format allegiance, will be observers, not posters.


3. I have always striven to be considerate and respectful with those I disagree with. I have come to realize that this has not always been the case with those who disagree with me.


4. My participation on this site has always been driven by my love for cinema. For many years I’ve contributed to the international section, where I intend to remain active, for a reason. So, any indirect statements implying that format favorism has taken precedence with me are simply incorrect. My stance against neutrality is driven by my conviction that such isn’t in the best interest of those who care about film and HD advancement.


5. I did not contribute to the Blu-Ray section with news and articles from around the globe to propagandize or, as some have described my posts, convert the undecided. I have genuine interest in one of the formats which I wished to share with the rest of the forum. I follow(ed) a similar passion for news and desire to share in the international section where I always contribute(ed) with news about European/Arthouse cinema. I hardly ever found time to share news about Asian cinema. So, it was quite sad to read the backlash of negative posts condemning non-English articles, foreign info, etc, which targeted my BR-related posts as “propaganda”. Furthermore, a few times I sensed that there was much more to the above mentioned criticism than disagreement. Hence, as of today, I simply choose to avoid the zealotry some here are willing to transfer from their active “discussions” in the political forum.


6. I am truly saddened to have witnessed how fellow journalists and writers were smeared with tirades of derogatory statements I would not use even for my most passionate opponents. I am even more saddened and disappointed with the fact that people who I have publicly defended elsewhere, ignoring my profound disagreement with their writings, appear to be the instigators. In the academic community I belong to such lack of professional integrity sooner or later catches up with you. And I will be surprised if, sooner rather than later, this isn’t the case here.


7. Finally, it has become obvious that “ignoring” is a much promoted course of action as of late. Unfortunately, I was never good at it. I don’t see it as beneficial for TALK as it only gives wings to people who aren’t here to contribute, share their passion for cinema, and celebrate diversity. In fact, it allows negativity to slowly erode what made TALK a preferred stop for many around the globe.

Best Wishes,

Dr. A

Sorry to see you leave pro-b! I know we never agreed on a few things, but I did enjoy your input, for what it's worth.

Pro-B,

I read your posts with interest as they are always well-thought and never fail to provide a clear opinion. I understand your decision to exit this forum as I've noticed of late the slant towards generalizing most of your input, which is unfortunate.

I look forward to your well-informed and enthusiastic posts in the International forum!

I really appreciate all your posts in the International Forum and hope you continue to post reviews and appreciations of International Films.

I believe that the HD section should not be a place for a cheerleader for one format or the other.

Your responses to many legitimate questions asked to you were venomous, spiteful, condescending and sarcastic. That is often why people returned the salvo to you, and hostilities increased. You set a condescending tone from your posting history, and that is how others treated you in return. It is important that you realize this, because if you continue such behavior at other forums, the situation will repeat itself.

I cannot recall a single post where you touted any benefits of HD-DVD or even that it was a viable format. It's quite clear that you feel BD is the stronger format, and your posts reflected that. There is nothing wrong with that position, but you cannot say that you did not have any format favoritism, it is simply not a tenable position.

If you are talking about Bill Hunt, he's getting as good as he's giving. It's like Ann Coulter saying that Jews are imperfect Christians and then being incredulous that people would take great offense to such a comment. You cannot make inflammatory comments and expect no backlash.

What you really mean is share your opinion on those things. DVD Talk is the strongest forum of it's kind on the net, and will never stop being so, with or without you.

Look Pro-B, whatever this is worth to you, it is disappointing that you are leaving. Anytime this forum loses a longtime, passionate poster, it is a sad day.

I sincerely hope that you are able to find a place with those who closer share your beliefs about cinema and developing formats. Check back in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.

Josh

What can I say? I expected this to happen considering.

I don't know anything about this situation but is the "Look at me, look at me" thread/post really necessary? Are we so self important that everyone on the forum needs to know about you and your departure?

Gimmie a break. Wanna leave? Leave. We don't need a detailed account about it.

There will be peace brought to the forum now.

Agreed. It's usually the unannounced exits that have the most impact, based on what I've seen with other forums.

I agree. Was this thread really necessary? It's sad for you to leave, but we don't really need a thesis about why you are leaving.

I have never seen it said that Pro-B had to support HD-DVD on these or any other forum. He supports what he feels is the better format, as do many here.

Necessary or not, we'll allow this as a parting gift. This is a common courtesy that the forum provides to longtime members. There are many who appreciated what pro-B had to say. Let them say a few words.

Now, are all these "was this necessary?" posts really necessary? -wink-

namja
Moderator, DVD Talk Forums

i once decided to leave a discussion forum that i had been very active in for years due to some personal reasons that i could not divulge publicly. i intended to leave silently, but the moderators urged me to leave some sort of "farewell announcement" and so i provided one for them to post. that message was misunderstood by some members of the forum and apparently came off as being condascending and self-important, which was not my intention at all. if i could do it again, i would have simply left silently as i originally intended.

i hope that similar to me, the words you wrote here, pro-b, are just a poorly worded expression of your feelings, because your post comes off as extremely self-righteous and completely void of humility. because of my experience, i'm going to do my best to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you just didn't express yourself very well. i wish you the best.

I don't understand why people decide to leave a huge forum over some stupid arguement. If you are getting raked over the coals in the HD Forum. Stop posting in the HD Forum. Is there nothing else on this site that interests you? That you have to leave it completely? DVDTALK as a whole must not matter much if you corner yourself into one topic and then get upset that it doesn't go your way. Oh well. Good Luck.

He's just talking about the HD section, not the whole forum. It's in his first sentence as well as the third paragraph.

I agree as well. I also think your "calling out" of the mods here is utter bullshit. They are doing a great job keeping the fanatics on both sides in check. If you feel targeted, then maybe you need to look inward.

Good. I would miss seeing his avatar.:D

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have one of the scourges of internet forums: not reading the posts.




pro-bassoonist has always struck me as a true film lover and I don't understand all the venom above. He wants to say why he feels his input isn't welcome anymore.

Be seeing you, pro-b.

Oops. It's attitudes like the ones above that are the reason he is leaving (the HD Forum)!! ;)

Read post #5. I feel that DVD Josh sums it up correctly, IMHO.

I didn't have a problem with his posts. Sure, he chose to only post positive news for BD, but before long you came to expect and accept that. At this point I don't care about sales figures, or promotions and talk from studios, but for those that did care his contributions were valuable.

I'm not buying into this "I'm the victim, so I'm leaving" post either. For someone who supposedly loves films so much, I can't recall ever seeing any such discussion of BD films from the OP. What I did see was an agenda-esque posting style. No other member, that I recall, spent their entire time digging up any kind of pro-BD news. I know news posting is allowed, but to have 95% of your posts be news related? This leads me to believe that your job was to be a BD messenger, which I've seen plenty of on AVS. What I didn't see much of was actual discussion of BD movies or players. Even other members here who are BD only, certainly posted in a different manner. Some actually *gasp* acknowledged some of the BD criticism that has been brought up. Being a true supporter of one or both formats is by spending money on the product, not scouring the internet looking for any possible positive news that may help convert someone. Most did not see this post as it was quickly (and rightfully so) deleted, but you went as far as posting a new Disney flyer that was supposedly sent to retail, listing 5 reasons why you should choose Blu-ray over HD DVD. This adds to my agenda claims.

I agree with most of the replies posted in #5, especially response 1.

Does the academic community you belong too allow you to "confirm" facts that you had no personal knowledge of? Because thats what you did, right on this forum.

Another quality person and supporter of blu-ray run off of DVDTalk. I will miss Pro-b's post.

He seems to specialize in international films and other stuff that may not be released yet on BD. His position here isn't to review BD films. Maybe he wants to make sure HDM suceeds so that his favorites eventually do get released on BD. It's a reasonable position to believe that 1 format is the way to go. He may be wrong, but I think it's reasonable.

He clearly states that BD winning is his agenda. Nothing hidden there. No other member? That's exactly the point here. This board tends to run off anyone leaning Blu. Noone else is left to post news at all favorable to BD. I refuse to believe that either side is wholly immature and uncapable of reasonable discussion. So when a forum can't tolerate one pro-Blu poster (who else than pro-b has stuck around), I think it reflects more on the forum than that one remaining poster.

If he's pro-BD, it's not his duty to criticize the format. Plenty posters here will take of that. Would it make him look more objective? Probably, but so what? He's clearly taken a side. If his agenda is to come to the BD thread and post news updates, so what if that's his only role on the HD forum?

It seemed to me that after just about any post (in the BD thread), there were 2 or 3 posters coming along to pick apart whatever possible. It's hard not to appear defensive in such a situation. Since when is sarcasm not allowed? I think the proper response to something considered condescending would have been ignoring it.

Overall this is a great forum. Does anyone really believe that the BD side is incapable of providing serious posters? Maybe, just maybe it reflects on this section how noone pro-BD can stand to remain posting actively very long. But it doesn't seem enough to run off every last serious BD poster. They've got be kicked on the way out.

Great. The agenda of this site has been about movies, not one format winnnig over another. For that reason alone his posts mean absolutely zero to me and have no place on this forum IMHO.

The logic jumps required to justify "Loves Movies Therefore Must Have One Format Win In Order to Enjoy Movies" are way too high and moreover, the ends don't always justify the means. If someone truly loved movies, they would buy a HD DVD player because well some films aren't on Blu Ray....and vice versa. I have a HD DVD player and will get a Blu Ray player when the prices come down and the specs are finalized. Unfortunately, Blu Ray players prices aren't in my league yet (or at least what i want to spend)

I won't miss the constant cheerleading. :shrug:

Yawn....

I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for my Icelandic Blu-ray news.

I don't understand the problems that certain people on this board had with Pro B. So what if he likes to share news from around the world, including Iceland, about his preferred format. Does it bother you that it may not be the format of your choice? So what that he is pro Blu-Ray in Blu-Ray threads. Does that bother you? It seems like there were people on here that: a) wanted him to either fall in love with HD-DVD or at least become format neutral and then b) upon realizing that he was firmly entrenched with his choice in formats nitpick every little thing he had to say.

Nope, you won't. There are plenty of others.

I know I just wanted an explanation of why he chose BD, it's fine to choose whatever but I dunno, the stubbornness of it I guess. That said, I've kind of washed my hands of this entire "war", I'll continue taking the deals but screw the competitive non-sense with other enthusiasts.

Svet is a good guy! His tastes in film may differ from mine but I always respected his opinions.

Does this deserve its own thread? I don't know. It is his business. BOL.

Pro-B, I honestly hope you reconsider as I did enjoy your reading your posts and I'm quite dissapointed with most of the reaction in this thread considering everything pro-b has done since he started here. Most of you guys really need to look at his entire history since 2000 rather than the portions you don't agree with within the past year.
Either way, best of luck and will visit the international forums more often to chat with you.

Well said. Much more polite than the post that was formulating in my head.

Hey Pro-B, this is True_Story's fiancee. I know that you were one of the best on here and I am very sad to hear that you won't be around anymore! Even though I am not really terribly interested in the whole B and H wars. I have always thoroughly enjoyed hearing about you from Charles. If you happen to have another forum in mind that you plan to enter, or already post at. Would you not mind emailing Charles and letting him know? Your leaving is indeed a Great loss to this board. Not only for your well thought out opinions but also for your example of chivalry. The best of luck to you wherever you go!

for the record, i don't have a personal problem with pro-b and never really did. as someone with an interest in all HDM including Blu-ray, i grew tired of his frequent faux-news postings and speculative information passed off as confirmed fact, but i did my best to address the information directly when appropriate. i do think the mistreatment he has received from some members is entirely unwarranted, especially if he is receiving e-mails baselessly demanding that he reveal that he is secretly on some sort of corporate payroll. that's a prime example of the ridiculousness that this format war has brought out in people and there is no place for it.

that said, he is not free from some responsibility in all of this, as his farewell post seems to be desperately trying to suggest.

He is not free from some responsibility, but neither is he obligated to explain why he chose to go with Blu-Ray as some have vehemently requested. Do I ask people in Tulsa, Oklahoma why they are Boston Red Sox fans and demand an answer that satisfies my need to know? At one time I was more for Blu-Ray, and I still lean that way, but I have just decided to forgo this war and participate on both sides. Maybe it is in his best interest, as he believes, to stay on one side of the fence. I'm happy for him and I would love to see more of the Blu-Ray information that he once brought to our thread.

Excellent points. I wish all the annoying pro-format people would go away. Unless you are being paid by Toshiba or Sony, I do not understand how any consumer could get SO WRAPPED UP in a "format war." It's not a war, folks, it's just two different media devices. If you like one more than the other, vote with your wallet and enjoy getting half the films in high definition.

I personally enjoy watching great films that I love in HD - who gives a shit what color the box is that they come in. It's the same reason I came here in 1999 - I just want to watch great movies in the best quality possible.

If two billion dollar multinational companies want to have a pissing match, so be it. There's nothing an average consumer can do about it, and behaving like a petulant child on internet message boards isn't going to change the fact that there are currently two formats. Do you really think the CEOs of these companies give a rat's ass what anyone on this message board thinks? No, they only care about the bottom line.

BTW, I have avoided all the idiotic "news" threads in this subforum and stick to topics that actually matter - discussion of specific discs, release dates, and bargains. I have usually found Pro-B to be a valuable addition to DVDTalk's community, especially when commenting on Criterions and other international releases over in the main forum. So, I cannot comment on his behavior in this particular subforum, and my comments are not directed at him, just the fanboys in general.

There are annoying posters here that are pro-BD, pro-HD-DVD, and format neutral. Pro-B, however, is the only one that started a separate thread about how he/she is not posting in this forum anymore. Anyone that does that is opening themselves up to criticism and sarcastic comments.

I personally don't care what his/her preference is when it comes to HD movies. I do care that nearly every time he/she posts, it becomes a big deal and distraction. See post #5 for why that happens.

I've tried to stay away from posting in the frequent "wars" threads, and while Pro-B has gone out of his way to put the best BD foot forward, I do appreciate that he has put thought behind his posts and I never saw any name-calling or juvenile rantings that some of his enemies posted about him.

But I think this quote illustrates my complete confusion regarding this "format war." How can anyone on either side be so emotionally tied to a stupid little thing as a home theater format to actually require time to heal a disappointment from some disagreeing posters on a message board?

I couldn't care less if tomorrow either HD or BD announced they had full 100% studio support and the other format was being nuked. I own 2 HD-DVD players and 2 PS3s, and honestly I might own a third HD-DVD player before the holidays end. I've probably invested about $950 (maybe a little bit more, a lot of it in gifts and some in trades for the PS3, etc...) for all of those players in the course of over 18 months and have far exceeded the price tag with how much I have enjoyed the players and movies. They're my adult toys of preference, but nothing more. I'll never, ever, understand how anyone can be emotionally invested in something as trivial as this, without working for the companies that financially benefit (not accusing anyone of this at all).