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A few words...

Old 11-20-07, 04:26 AM
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A few words...

I’ve thought about what it would take for me to stop posting in the HD section for quite some time now. Would it be an end to the HD fiasco or would it be an irreversible disagreement with how far “discussions” go? Or, would it be a realization that there are people on this forum whose proclaimed “neutrality” is nothing more than a convenient platform for an endless format negativity I am not willing to consistently address?

At this point it is much more than that and I believe that it will be a long time before I heal my disappointment.

Before I exit the forum I would like to clarify a few things so there isn’t any confusion amongst those who read this text and might be uncertain about the motives behind my decision to depart the HD section of TALK.

1. Unlike the numerous insinuations and claims at TALK that I, directly or indirectly, have vested interest in SONY and the BR format in particular the reality is that I do not. I don’t benefit from the two financially. Yet, I continue to receive private emails urging me to acknowledge that I am being paid. My exit of this forum should make it obvious whether or not I was sincere about what I have posted previously.


2. I see double standards in how discussions are directed here. There are too many people who act from a position of “neutrality” to justify an attitude I am no longer willing to tolerate. Suffice to say, sooner rather than later, the consensus some of the moderators are willing to promote will be easily achieved. “Thinkers”, regardless of format allegiance, will be observers, not posters.


3. I have always striven to be considerate and respectful with those I disagree with. I have come to realize that this has not always been the case with those who disagree with me.


4. My participation on this site has always been driven by my love for cinema. For many years I’ve contributed to the international section, where I intend to remain active, for a reason. So, any indirect statements implying that format favorism has taken precedence with me are simply incorrect. My stance against neutrality is driven by my conviction that such isn’t in the best interest of those who care about film and HD advancement.


5. I did not contribute to the Blu-Ray section with news and articles from around the globe to propagandize or, as some have described my posts, convert the undecided. I have genuine interest in one of the formats which I wished to share with the rest of the forum. I follow(ed) a similar passion for news and desire to share in the international section where I always contribute(ed) with news about European/Arthouse cinema. I hardly ever found time to share news about Asian cinema. So, it was quite sad to read the backlash of negative posts condemning non-English articles, foreign info, etc, which targeted my BR-related posts as “propaganda”. Furthermore, a few times I sensed that there was much more to the above mentioned criticism than disagreement. Hence, as of today, I simply choose to avoid the zealotry some here are willing to transfer from their active “discussions” in the political forum.


6. I am truly saddened to have witnessed how fellow journalists and writers were smeared with tirades of derogatory statements I would not use even for my most passionate opponents. I am even more saddened and disappointed with the fact that people who I have publicly defended elsewhere, ignoring my profound disagreement with their writings, appear to be the instigators. In the academic community I belong to such lack of professional integrity sooner or later catches up with you. And I will be surprised if, sooner rather than later, this isn’t the case here.


7. Finally, it has become obvious that “ignoring” is a much promoted course of action as of late. Unfortunately, I was never good at it. I don’t see it as beneficial for TALK as it only gives wings to people who aren’t here to contribute, share their passion for cinema, and celebrate diversity. In fact, it allows negativity to slowly erode what made TALK a preferred stop for many around the globe.

Best Wishes,

Dr. A

Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 11-20-07 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 11-20-07, 08:09 AM
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Sorry to see you leave pro-b! I know we never agreed on a few things, but I did enjoy your input, for what it's worth.
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Old 11-20-07, 09:28 AM
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Pro-B,

I read your posts with interest as they are always well-thought and never fail to provide a clear opinion. I understand your decision to exit this forum as I've noticed of late the slant towards generalizing most of your input, which is unfortunate.

I look forward to your well-informed and enthusiastic posts in the International forum!
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Old 11-20-07, 09:29 AM
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I really appreciate all your posts in the International Forum and hope you continue to post reviews and appreciations of International Films.

I believe that the HD section should not be a place for a cheerleader for one format or the other.
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Old 11-20-07, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
I have always striven to be considerate and respectful with those I disagree with. I have come to realize that this has not always been the case with those who disagree with me.
Your responses to many legitimate questions asked to you were venomous, spiteful, condescending and sarcastic. That is often why people returned the salvo to you, and hostilities increased. You set a condescending tone from your posting history, and that is how others treated you in return. It is important that you realize this, because if you continue such behavior at other forums, the situation will repeat itself.

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
Any indirect statements implying that format favorism has taken precedence with me are simply incorrect. My stance against neutrality is driven by my conviction that such isn’t in the best interest of those who care about film and HD advancement.
I cannot recall a single post where you touted any benefits of HD-DVD or even that it was a viable format. It's quite clear that you feel BD is the stronger format, and your posts reflected that. There is nothing wrong with that position, but you cannot say that you did not have any format favoritism, it is simply not a tenable position.

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
I am truly saddened to have witnessed how fellow journalists and writers were smeared with tirades of derogatory statements I would not use even for my most passionate opponents. I am even more saddened and disappointed with the fact that people who I have publicly defended elsewhere, ignoring my profound disagreement with their writings, appear to be the instigators. In the academic community I belong to such lack of professional integrity sooner or later catches up with you. And I will be surprised if, sooner rather than later, this isn’t the case here.
If you are talking about Bill Hunt, he's getting as good as he's giving. It's like Ann Coulter saying that Jews are imperfect Christians and then being incredulous that people would take great offense to such a comment. You cannot make inflammatory comments and expect no backlash.

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
Finally, it has become obvious that “ignoring” is a much promoted course of action as of late. Unfortunately, I was never good at it. I don’t see it as beneficial for TALK as it only gives wings to people who aren’t here to contribute, share their passion for cinema, and celebrate diversity. In fact, it allows negativity to slowly erode what made TALK a preferred stop for many around the globe.
What you really mean is share your opinion on those things. DVD Talk is the strongest forum of it's kind on the net, and will never stop being so, with or without you.

Look Pro-B, whatever this is worth to you, it is disappointing that you are leaving. Anytime this forum loses a longtime, passionate poster, it is a sad day.

I sincerely hope that you are able to find a place with those who closer share your beliefs about cinema and developing formats. Check back in with us from time to time to let us know how you are doing.

Josh

Last edited by DVD Josh; 11-20-07 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:29 AM
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What can I say? I expected this to happen considering.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:33 AM
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I don't know anything about this situation but is the "Look at me, look at me" thread/post really necessary? Are we so self important that everyone on the forum needs to know about you and your departure?

Gimmie a break. Wanna leave? Leave. We don't need a detailed account about it.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:36 AM
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There will be peace brought to the forum now.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
I don't know anything about this situation but is the "Look at me, look at me" thread/post really necessary? Are we so self important that everyone on the forum needs to know about you and your departure?

Gimmie a break. Wanna leave? Leave. We don't need a detailed account about it.
Agreed. It's usually the unannounced exits that have the most impact, based on what I've seen with other forums.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
I don't know anything about this situation but is the "Look at me, look at me" thread/post really necessary? Are we so self important that everyone on the forum needs to know about you and your departure?

Gimmie a break. Wanna leave? Leave. We don't need a detailed account about it.
I agree. Was this thread really necessary? It's sad for you to leave, but we don't really need a thesis about why you are leaving.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
I cannot recall a single post where you touted any benefits of HD-DVD or even that it was a viable format. It's quite clear that you feel BD is the stronger format, and your posts reflected that. There is nothing wrong with that position, but you cannot say that you did not have any format favoritism, it is simply not a tenable position.

Josh
I have never seen it said that Pro-B had to support HD-DVD on these or any other forum. He supports what he feels is the better format, as do many here.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Courtjester
I agree. Was this thread really necessary? It's sad for you to leave, but we don't really need a thesis about why you are leaving.
Necessary or not, we'll allow this as a parting gift. This is a common courtesy that the forum provides to longtime members. There are many who appreciated what pro-B had to say. Let them say a few words.

Now, are all these "was this necessary?" posts really necessary?

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Old 11-20-07, 10:56 AM
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i once decided to leave a discussion forum that i had been very active in for years due to some personal reasons that i could not divulge publicly. i intended to leave silently, but the moderators urged me to leave some sort of "farewell announcement" and so i provided one for them to post. that message was misunderstood by some members of the forum and apparently came off as being condascending and self-important, which was not my intention at all. if i could do it again, i would have simply left silently as i originally intended.

i hope that similar to me, the words you wrote here, pro-b, are just a poorly worded expression of your feelings, because your post comes off as extremely self-righteous and completely void of humility. because of my experience, i'm going to do my best to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you just didn't express yourself very well. i wish you the best.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:04 AM
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I don't understand why people decide to leave a huge forum over some stupid arguement. If you are getting raked over the coals in the HD Forum. Stop posting in the HD Forum. Is there nothing else on this site that interests you? That you have to leave it completely? DVDTALK as a whole must not matter much if you corner yourself into one topic and then get upset that it doesn't go your way. Oh well. Good Luck.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:11 AM
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He's just talking about the HD section, not the whole forum. It's in his first sentence as well as the third paragraph.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Vipper II
Agreed. It's usually the unannounced exits that have the most impact, based on what I've seen with other forums.
I agree as well. I also think your "calling out" of the mods here is utter bullshit. They are doing a great job keeping the fanatics on both sides in check. If you feel targeted, then maybe you need to look inward.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ianholm
He's just talking about the HD section, not the whole forum. It's in his first sentence as well as the third paragraph.
Good. I would miss seeing his avatar.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
I don't understand why people decide to leave a huge forum over some stupid arguement. If you are getting raked over the coals in the HD Forum. Stop posting in the HD Forum. Is there nothing else on this site that interests you? That you have to leave it completely? DVDTALK as a whole must not matter much if you corner yourself into one topic and then get upset that it doesn't go your way. Oh well. Good Luck.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have one of the scourges of internet forums: not reading the posts.

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
[...]

For many years I’ve contributed to the international section, where I intend to remain active, for a reason.



pro-bassoonist has always struck me as a true film lover and I don't understand all the venom above. He wants to say why he feels his input isn't welcome anymore.

Be seeing you, pro-b.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:16 AM
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Oops. It's attitudes like the ones above that are the reason he is leaving (the HD Forum)!!
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Old 11-20-07, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Grubert





pro-bassoonist has always struck me as a true film lover and I don't understand all the venom above. He wants to say why he feels his input isn't welcome anymore.
Read post #5. I feel that DVD Josh sums it up correctly, IMHO.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:17 AM
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I didn't have a problem with his posts. Sure, he chose to only post positive news for BD, but before long you came to expect and accept that. At this point I don't care about sales figures, or promotions and talk from studios, but for those that did care his contributions were valuable.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:33 AM
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I'm not buying into this "I'm the victim, so I'm leaving" post either. For someone who supposedly loves films so much, I can't recall ever seeing any such discussion of BD films from the OP. What I did see was an agenda-esque posting style. No other member, that I recall, spent their entire time digging up any kind of pro-BD news. I know news posting is allowed, but to have 95% of your posts be news related? This leads me to believe that your job was to be a BD messenger, which I've seen plenty of on AVS. What I didn't see much of was actual discussion of BD movies or players. Even other members here who are BD only, certainly posted in a different manner. Some actually *gasp* acknowledged some of the BD criticism that has been brought up. Being a true supporter of one or both formats is by spending money on the product, not scouring the internet looking for any possible positive news that may help convert someone. Most did not see this post as it was quickly (and rightfully so) deleted, but you went as far as posting a new Disney flyer that was supposedly sent to retail, listing 5 reasons why you should choose Blu-ray over HD DVD. This adds to my agenda claims.

I agree with most of the replies posted in #5, especially response 1.

Last edited by Mr. Cinema; 11-20-07 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
In the academic community I belong to such lack of professional integrity sooner or later catches up with you. And I will be surprised if, sooner rather than later, this isn’t the case here.

Dr. A

Does the academic community you belong too allow you to "confirm" facts that you had no personal knowledge of? Because thats what you did, right on this forum.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:59 AM
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Another quality person and supporter of blu-ray run off of DVDTalk. I will miss Pro-b's post.
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Old 11-20-07, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I'm not buying into this "I'm the victim, so I'm leaving" post either. For someone who supposedly loves films so much, I can't recall ever seeing any such discussion of BD films from the OP.
He seems to specialize in international films and other stuff that may not be released yet on BD. His position here isn't to review BD films. Maybe he wants to make sure HDM suceeds so that his favorites eventually do get released on BD. It's a reasonable position to believe that 1 format is the way to go. He may be wrong, but I think it's reasonable.

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
What I did see was an agenda-esque posting style. No other member, that I recall, spent their entire time digging up any kind of pro-BD news. I know news posting is allowed, but to have 95% of your posts be news related? This leads me to believe that your job was to be a BD messenger, which I've seen plenty of on AVS.
He clearly states that BD winning is his agenda. Nothing hidden there. No other member? That's exactly the point here. This board tends to run off anyone leaning Blu. Noone else is left to post news at all favorable to BD. I refuse to believe that either side is wholly immature and uncapable of reasonable discussion. So when a forum can't tolerate one pro-Blu poster (who else than pro-b has stuck around), I think it reflects more on the forum than that one remaining poster.

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
What I didn't see much of was actual discussion of BD movies or players. Even other members here who are BD only, certainly posted in a different manner. Some actually *gasp* acknowledged some of the BD criticism that has been brought up. Being a true supporter of one or both formats is by spending money on the product, not scouring the internet looking for any possible positive news that may help convert someone. Most did not see this post as it was quickly (and rightfully so) deleted, but you went as far as posting a new Disney flyer that was supposedly sent to retail, listing 5 reasons why you should choose Blu-ray over HD DVD. This adds to my agenda claims.
If he's pro-BD, it's not his duty to criticize the format. Plenty posters here will take of that. Would it make him look more objective? Probably, but so what? He's clearly taken a side. If his agenda is to come to the BD thread and post news updates, so what if that's his only role on the HD forum?

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I agree with most of the replies posted in #5, especially response 1.
It seemed to me that after just about any post (in the BD thread), there were 2 or 3 posters coming along to pick apart whatever possible. It's hard not to appear defensive in such a situation. Since when is sarcasm not allowed? I think the proper response to something considered condescending would have been ignoring it.

Overall this is a great forum. Does anyone really believe that the BD side is incapable of providing serious posters? Maybe, just maybe it reflects on this section how noone pro-BD can stand to remain posting actively very long. But it doesn't seem enough to run off every last serious BD poster. They've got be kicked on the way out.
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