Aren't you a peach, especially to someone who was coming to your defense.

Whether you like it or not, Sony has combined the gaming system with a Bluray player. The sales of the Wii, 360 and so on DO affect the sales of the PS3 (the player that you say is the best selling bluray player). So, that obviously impacts Bluray software sales.

You can spout numbers all day in this thread, so he should be able to also. They are definately relevant to Bluray.

One might also ask why you would mention the HD DVD players in a BD thread?

There's no argument that the PS3 is outselling HD DVD players. Similarly, as shown by the figures in Dan's post, the PS3 is getting trounced by all other game systems. That seemed to be the point he was making, and, since the PS3 is currently the best-selling Blu-ray capable device, that point is a relevant one.

FROM YOUR ARTICLE


SO I CAN'T post information that directly relates to what THE CHAIRMAN OF SONY SAYS ABOUT THE PS3!!! THE PS3 is a gaming system and movie player, AND A LOT OF THE SALES OF PS3 are to gamers..so its ranking in terms of a game machine is very relevant.

Oh and please check out Post #80, it will provide plenty of "confirmation" that discussion of the PS3's "gaming side" is allowed:

and finally #82

Saying the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player is the same as saying the PS2 was a DVD player. Neither statement is really true. PS3 is a videogame system that has BD playback as a feature, not a raison d'etre. There is a good portion of the PS3 base that does not use the machine as BD platform. I do not argue that the PS3's numbers must be counted in the tally of installed BD units, but I DO argue the equation that PS3=Blu-Ray player.

Right. A minority of PS3 owners like myself got it mainly to watch movies, but BD disc sales pretty clearly show that the millions of PS3 owners do not equate to millions of BD movie watchers.

The same relationship exists between XBOX, the add-on, and HDDVD. Your point is?

Because the broad generalization was not introduced by my post. Throwing the rest of the consoles in but leaving the A2/3 out of the equation, when we all agree that PS3 is both a player and gaming console, looks off to me.

You could post, no need to "scream". The issue here is that if you choose to generalize and broaden up the market then by all means throw in the machine PS3 is outselling. Why avoid it? If PS3 has plenty of catching up to do with the rest of the consoles so is the A2 with the PS3. Its ranking (A2/3) in terms of a dedicated player is very relevant.

Agreed. That is why I never used only. Yet, since this is the BR thread I commented on its performance as such (player).

Pro-B

I post an article about how the PS3 is selling compared to other gaming machines and you RESPOND to that post by talking about it against a stand-alone HD DVD player. Makes a lot of sense, if you are into non-sequiturs.


Hell, why not open it to sales of standard DVD players, because it can play standard DVDs too

What your post can't hide the fact the PS3, was dead-last in October in video game consoles, and while it will be helped by a price cut, it still has a lot of "catchup" to do which is what I originally said.

Maybe because the PS3 has an identity crisis?

Game Machine Blu-ray player!!!

Dude, everyone chill out on the whole PS3 thing.

pro-B, if you're going to post a PS3 article, then get ready for a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE comparison. It is much more a video game console than it is a Blu-ray player. Didn't we learn recently that the majority of PS3 owners don't know that it plays BD?? And this (discussion of PS3 as a video game console) is especially true when the article you quote mentions the comparison of PS3 sales to the Wii & the 360.

applesandrice, just because this is a Blu-ray thread does not mean that HD DVD cannot be mentioned at all. Since they are very closely related, it would be near impossible for the two to be totally separate.

chanster, if you keep responding to pro-B, then this thread goes nowhere. Just report the inappropriate posts and let the mods handle the rest. We'll take a look and respond if one is necessary.

namja
Moderator, DVD Talk Forums

It makes perfect sense to me. If you choose to broaden up the discussion then by all means make all relevant points known. The PS3 competes on both markets, gaming and media, why do you choose to only show its ranking in one of those since you admit that it is also a movie player. It sounds and looks like a perfect lesson in Graffeo-ism -- we choose to take the PS3 in and out of the equation when the numbers sing our song.

Because the main objective of this thread is HD-related data (in this sub-thread the main topic being Blu-Ray). And both the gaming and BR/HDDVD industries are part of it. SDVD players are not a relevant subject.

Ciao,
Pro-B

Actually, that's what SONY is famous for doing. Not just with the PS3 but with just about everything it makes. If you want to do a fair comparison, then you should do it this way. Compare these:

# of PS3 sold to people who will be using it as a BD player
# of A2/3 sold

Pro-B, you're picking a fight -- plain and simple. Chanster was making a point comparing the PS3 to other video game systems, and your response so far has been to completely sidetrack the issue. If you would indeed like to discuss the relationship between software/hardware sales between the two formats for the time period in question, let's do so.

First, however, we need to come to some sort of agreement on what the attachment rate is for PS3 owners buying Blu-ray discs. I don't think that can really be nailed down, though, can it? So a direct comparison between the two "players" is a bit difficult, at best. Still, from the figures which regularly get quoted here and elsewhere, it's pretty apparent that the number of people buying PS3s is far higher than the number of people buying Blu-ray discs. Having said that, selling 125,000 PS3s as opposed to selling 90,000 HD-A2s in a given week is eye-opening, to say the least. Out of those 125,000 PS3s let's be generous and say that 50% will fully utilize the BD-playback functionality and buy movies. How many of the 90,000 HD-A2 owners would you suppose are intending to buy movies?

This is exhausting. We can debate this crap back and forth until we've all got carpal tunnel and everybody hates each other, but, really -- what's the point? Is this really how you expect to positively influence people for buying into your format of choice?

Couldn't agree more. My intent was not to say that HD DVD shouldn't be mentioned, it just seemed like it was being dragged in for the sake of creating a new argument. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

I agree. It is mentioned as a deflection. Even in the absense of a single model of a competing player, PS3 is not doing well against thier competitors, and that was the point being discussed. It is very easy to point to one of the only numbers that PS3 has going for it, that being the number of drives vs. competing hi-def drives. But that is not what the article Pro-B was talking about. It specifically mentioned the PS3's numbers against the item's true competition in its marketplace, that being XBox 360 and Wii.

You probably don't need to worry about this particular sales discrepancy. And comparing to A2/A3 is way down the list. The sales discrepancy vs the PS2 is far more worrisome to any Sony exec with a brain. (and is the reason behind the lack of backward compatibility, but that's just shot another hole in their foot rather than patching up the first one) Note in your original post the quote about the effect of the PS3 price drop did not say they were selling more PS3s, but that "In the two weeks ending Nov. 11, Sony said it sold more than 100,000 consoles of all types." Talk about damning yourself with faint praise.

BD movies aren't going to keep the PS3 alive. They better get some decent games.

I am sorry to disagree with you but this is the one way you could never fairly compare the two. There is no statistical data which clearly reveals what percentage of sold PS3 are used as BD players. Just as there isn't a statistical data pinpointing the number of XBOX consoles used for HDDVD viewing. If you have the relevant data by all means point out the source and let's debate.

That is why I pointed out that if you choose to broaden up the discussion you should recognize where the PS3 is behind (gaming) and where it appears to be a leader (BR media).

As to your SONY remark, I shall leave it at that, we simply have to agree to disagree.

Incorrect. Nowhere have a disputed the fact that PS3 is behind in the gaming industry. I challenged the fact that Chanster brought up a one-sided comparison. PS3 is not a game console only, so by all means, if you wish to highlight its failure(s) in gaming sales single out its success(') as well (BR media). Why do you think that it is only relevant to argue its ranking amongst game consoles when the OP recognized it as a movie player. Particularly, I must say, when the article I quoted makes it very clear that PS3 was undeperforming! Should be obvious, no?

I don't see my challenge to Chanster's chart as a spin. Why did you?

And here we go again. You figure out a pattern that takes into consideration the amount of XBOX consoles used for HDDVD viewing and I am ready to follow you with addressing PS3's performance. They are both relevant to software sales and requesting to have them in the comparison you wish to have is anything but spinning. Agreed?

Hope this also answers why HDDVD was mentioned in the post you addressed before I left the office this afternoon.

Pro-B

http://www.playthree.net/2007/11/ps3...11-update.html

PS3 to get Blu-ray Profile 1.1 update before end of 2007

The HD DVD on XBox 360 is an add-on so the number of consoles used for HD DVD = the number of add-ons sold. Easy.

Whoa, if that's true, not a bad way for the PS3 to end the year. The only issue I have with it is the fact that there is only one other player out there that is P 1.1. I would have assumed that the BDA would have had four or five manufacturers with P 1.1 players before the PS3 got it. Either way this is very good news.

The answer from the BDA European Promotions Committee came after the announcement from the European HD DVD Promotional Group.

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/ne...released.phtml

Answer :
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/ne...tatement.phtml

What? Of course there is!

You can only view HD DVDs on an Xbox 360 if you buy the HD DVD add-on.

The number of HD DVD add-ons sold == the number of Xbox 360 consoles used for HD DVD viewing

That's the difference between the Xbox 360 and the PS3 as far as HDM playback goes. If you want to watch HD DVDs on the 360, you have to buy the add-on. It's not bundled in like it is on the PS3, so if you're buying the add-on, it's essentially the same as picking up a standalone player -- you can say with 100% certainty that the person buying the add-on is doing so for the HD DVD functionality since that's all it does. The same assumption can't be made for the PS3. If it were, than Blu-ray sales would eclipse HD DVD instead of being as modest as they are now.

I'm not arguing that the Xbox 360's approach is better than the PS3's (I really don't care either way; I love movies, not formats), but it is much more clear-cut how many of its consoles are being used to watch high-def movies and which ones aren't.

this statistic would be more impressive if it weren't a firesale of old goods, and were repeatable week on week. we shall see what finally pans out after this holiday period...

more clear cut but not exactly straight forward. many of my friends have consoles, and have used them for years. most also have peripherals (add-ons) of various types, most of which are only infrequently used, due to lack of convenience (lazyness!). it's an open question how much of an issue this is with the hd dvd add-on. the only true guide of hardware use is software sales. currently these favour bd, though there have been a few weeks where hd dvd has almost achieved parallel.