We can debate on whether or not 1.1 will make 1.0 players "obsolete" or not, but it is beyond debate that 1.1 will reduce the effectiveness of 1.0 players. A lot of people say they don't like extras and just want the movie, but the level of interactivity available to these formats has barely been hinted at and are only limited by the imaginations of the people who create the content.

You may not like the extras that appear on regular DVDs, but who's to say you wouldn't want to watch the movie with a live PiP window of the star or the director giving commentary and even talking via a chat client. This stuff is actually achieveable. But people who buy 1.0 players won't be able to get it unless the technology allows for an upgrade of the specs, which many don't. To try and downplay the idea that it doesn't matter what profile of player you buy is not a good idea. I know that I would have been very, very angry if my HD-A1 couldn't play the web content on Transformers. And I will be even more pissed if my PS3 can't be upgraded to take advantage of later profiles.

Thank you for this SM. An intelligent and reasoned comment.

I'm sorry to pile it on here, but this post is just ridicolous. You buy a Blu Ray movie, you should EXPECT to be given access to whatever features the movie is offering.

Now these self-proclaimed consumer advocates (i.e. bits man) are saying blu-ray is the way to go. How the hell can something be the way to go if the players produced aren't going to be able access all the features on these discs???? Thats about as anti-consumer as you can go.

Now you can make up all kinds of elaborate lies and speculation..i.e. Warner working around 1.1 limits and such, but the truth of the matter is that eventually these 1.1 and 2.0 specs are going to be the final say in Blu Ray compatibility. For the early players well you are SOL sorry. I'm sorry I am not going to put my faith in distributors working out a solution, when Fox can't even produce discs that are compatible with players right now!

You buy one of these stand alone players and you are going to be SOL in 1 year...

This sounds kinda dumb, but I went with Blu-ray cause I've always like Sony's DVD players, reviews for BD playback on PS3 were excellent, and Casino Royale was being hyped. No regrets here...

As I said earlier in the thread, expect many of the HD DVD fans here to bring up spurious Blu-ray issues to try and dissuade potential owners going against their format(HD DVD) of choice. It's simply a marketing spin by online HD DVD fans trying to minimize sales of Blu-ray players.

The whole BD profiles issue is mostly moot, since the PS3 can and will be updated to 1.1 and eventually 2.0. With the PS3 making up most of the Blu-ray player base right now, virtually with one firmware release(possibly the upcoming PS3 firmware 2.0) most Blu-ray owners will become BD Profile 1.1 players overnight.

Anyone worried about being future-proof for the Blu-ray format should get the PS3(any model is fine).

...What you just said is that PS3 is the best and safest Blu-ray player around. Agreed. I think everyone can agree on that. However stand alones will not be able to handle Profile 1.1, which is a big deal. Period.

Shame on us "HD DVD Fanboys" for warning someone who is asking a question. I forgot how well the BDA is teaching customers the difference between profile...oh wait.

I side with HD-DVD but I have no problem with anybody having any differing opinions on that. We're getting to that point where this thread will come into an HD vs BR debate and it shouldn't be.

Again, get whatever format has the better titles for you. But, granted, with the Blu-Ray issues mentioned, make sure you purchase a player that's going to be the most compatible with future releases. What's important is you watch the stuff that makes you happy, end of story. No matter what the format.

The PS3 should really be the only Blu-Ray model offered at the present time. At least until the get all off the firmware issues resolved. I have not had one instance of problems playing Blu-Rays with my PS3. It all comes down to which particular movies you want. Get em both! Many of us on here did.

Gizmo, It's fair to bring up the point about the BD profiles and 1.1 extras, but your statements are much too dogmatic:

Some people, maybe many people will not consider them viable options, but some early adopters are choosing them even knowing the profile issue. Many early adopters will probably spend far more over the years on Blu-ray software than the cost of a player. Some upgrade their players (be they DVD, HD-DVD, or Blu-ray) fairly frequently anyway.

A better way to state that would be "stand alones will not be able to handle Profile 1.1 which is a big deal to some people." It's also not a big deal to some people. The "Period" makes it sound like an unquestionable fact.

Its funny. You make it seem like the only people who buy Blu-ray and HD DVD are people who belong to DVDTalk, AVS, HTF etc. What about the average folk who knows nothing of these issues? How do you think they will feel when they can't watch that special feature on BLANK movie because that $600 Samsung player that the Best Buy rep sold them as "advanced technology etc" can't handle it? I'm going to assume the average folk is not going to replace there $600 Blu-ray Player with a $300 several months later. They should be a viable option for a few years. Amazing how the A1 can still play everything 100% a year and a half later.

This forum is one of the most neatural forums on HD media I am registered to. Heck they don't even have a Blu section and a HD-DVD section like everyone else.

I am sorry I have to disagree with you yet again. There is no such limit on current standalone players which mandates that ALL features must be playable.

In fact, I find it very strange that some long-time users on this forum tend to make definitive statements without taking past events into consideration. Allow me to refresh your memory with an interesting fact:

Independence Day-5 Star SE (Silver cover/double case) was initially released by FOX on SDVD on 6/27/2000. To this day the easter-egg, the one where you must punch in the numbers/dates, so you could access the extended scene(s) through the controller is unaccessible via my old Phillips DVD player. I could access the easter egg on my SONY but not on the Phillips.

I can dig up some of the past threads on this issue to show you that there were other machines that couldn't access it either.

So, according to your logic above these players should have never been released on the market. Yet, in 2000 it was widely accepted that SDVD machines were "finalized". In other words, you could argue that the technical specifications with HD and SDVD present different issues but at the end, in my opinion, the effect any such issue is likely to have on the consumer is similar. Hence my conviction that if you are on the market for a full future-proof player then you go with the PS3. If you are informed and not concerned with 1.1/2.0 profiles, just as I am, then you proceed and purchase whatever fits your style.

It is very simple really. It comes down to reading, learning, and making an intelligent decision. To sum it all up I would be more concerned if there was not a single player on the market that could be upgraded. As the PS3 (as well as other manufactures prepping 1.1 machines) is here to stay all you have to do is choose.

Pro-B

It is rather sad that you still can not grasp the fact that the compatibility issue had absolutely nothing to do with FOX. It concerned two hardware manufacturers.

Pro-B

I think there's a difference between an isolated easter egg that may not work on every single machine versus an entire set of advertised extras that are guaranteed not to work on almost every machine produced to date.

Actually, it's funny you mention Fox, because the Independence Day issue seems to be very similar to the issue they had with Rise of the Silver Surfer and Day After Tomorrow not working on some Blu-ray players. But those can be fixed. Once any studio makes a Blu-ray disc that requires 1.1 or 2.0 to play, it diminishes the usable capabilities of players built before those specs were finalized that don't or can't get upgraded.

So are all 1.0 players 100% useless? No. But they're not 100% useful, either. I think this is something that is very much worth mentioning to someone who is deciding how best to get into the HD game. We shouldn't be telling people "Buy any player at all, it's totally fine" and try to sweep later profiles under the rug.

I think this whole line of conversation can be best summed up like so:

If you want a future-proof Blu-ray player, get a PS3. If you even think you may at some point want to use any special feature that requires specs later than 1.0, get a PS3. If you're 100% positive that you will only ever use Blu-ray to watch the movies, get whatever you want.

WOW. YOU COULD NOT ACCESS AN EASTER EGG on a DVD..that sure is a great comparision between the kind of features YOU KNOW will be on Blu Ray with the upcoming and heavily promoted. Never mind that the fact the "feature" was an easter egg, but probably had due with the fact that the problem wasn't with the DVD spec itself bur rather a simple IR deficiency with the remote/player. - yes that is definitely the same as the Blu Ray 1.0/1.1/2.0 fiasco. Intellectual dishonesty at its finest!

This isn't too far off where I stand on the issue.

The correction I would add is that 1.1 encoded discs will still offer a substantial amount of extras that would play just fine on your 1.0 player. The one, or two (extra bits), of 1.1 material I view as the web-enhanced ROM supplemental material(s) certain distribs favored during SDVD - you could play 90% of the extras with the rest accessible through your PC. Given that BR has a much bigger potential any "what ifs" at this point are simply speculations, perhaps viable, but speculations nevertheless as the format has not matured.

The rest I agree with.

Pro-B

I think the release of Transformers has shown us just how fast the new untapped portions of these formats can grow. Don't assume that 1.1 and 2.0 won't be heavily exploited upon finalization. Again, even if you're mildly interested in some of the potential applications of later profiles, it doesn't make sense to get a 1.0 player.

Actually I don't. But you seem to be well informed. Perhaps you could point me to your source? We could have a debate!

As to intellectual dishonesty, I have put my thoughts in words that reflect precisely what I find to be of importance to my viewing preference(s).

Pro-B

I'm sorry I don't have fantastic sources on Blu-Ray Forums, nor do I sit around and translate Spanish press releases which states that Blu-Ray sold 200 units in Spain for the year 2007 but common sense tells me that if a company spends money to develop Blu Ray 2.0 spec, they aren't going to sit around and do nothing with it.

And its interesting to note you have not refuted the point of my post which is whatever problems you were having with an EASTER EGG had nothing to due with the DVD spec itself, but rather an IR "problem"

Since you are so into sources all of sudden, Please name your source for the above bolded part of your quote. Also identify what you consider a "proper solution" Does "proper" mean labeling something as Blu Ray 1.1 or 2.0 so all the suckas who bought 1.0 will know that they are SOL with that feature.

Is that a proper solution? I don't think so, I think if you buy an Blu-Ray or HD-DVD you should be able to utilize the features of said Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

I have already addressed the topic of referring to non-English articles/information in another thread. For the record I don’t sit around and translate: I am fluent in four languages and reading Spanish is something I do regularly. I frequent a number of forums where I like to read and learn from others who may not be fluent in English. I am sorry you have such a negative attitude towards anything non-English (written or spoken).

I don't feel I have to refute anything. I believe the example I gave speaks for itself.

I have. In another thread. Perhaps the more suitable course of action here for you would have been to first research the topic, and my reasoning for stating it as a fact, before challenging its veracity.

To the second point: currently all BR discs are properly marked and labeled by software manufacturers to reflect compatibility. (On the back of each case you will clearly see a warning that BR content is only compatible with BR hardware, and not SDVD). This sets a precedent, hence my earlier remark. When 1.1 content becomes available I expect a similar practice of recognition to be adopted.

Ciao,
Pro-B

Irrelevant. Marking compatibility between standard DVD and Blu Ray has nothing to do with marking compatiblity betweent Blu Ray 1.1 and 2.0. And if it does, I congratulate you on admitting that Blu Ray 1.1 and 2.0 are so different that that it should be compared to the difference in compatibility between SDVD and Blu Ray...which tells me you acknowledge that 2.0 is essentially a different piece of hardware from 1.0 marked Blu Ray players.

perhaps some posters here should also be bringing up the potential incompatability of triple layer hd dvd discs with the current toshiba hd dvd players?

Every professional write-up of this issue I have read draws the same conclusion. It seems that the only place to currently find recommendations for either format is among enthusiasts. This tells me that it is probably smart to wait unless one wants a PS3 for gaming, in which case, going with Blu-ray might make sense. Unfortunately, most of the Xbox 360 vs. PS3 comparisons I've read (for gaming) pick the 360 as the clear winner.

You do realize that there's an HD-DVD add-on for the 360, don't you?