I thought you could preorder this at J&R for $399.

If you are a Value Electronics preferred customer (meaning you ordered a HD-DVD player or probably anything else from him), he's got guaranteed stock for early orders and the best deal on the 605 and 805 I've seen. Won't post the prices out of respect but if you e-mail him I'm sure he'll work with you.

You can. My post was just for the very impatient who need it now.

And to say it's out in the wild, meaning it shouldn't be much longer to be widely available.

I think I heard that J&R will start shipping the players tomorrow.

I picked up an Onkyo 604 at Fry's over the weekend for $255. It's a great receiver with HD DVD and well worth looking into if you're not wanting to spend a lot.

Might as well get the 505 for $299 and get DTS-MA and DD-HD decoding.

I was thinking the same thing.

You and I should work together more.

Right here. Since I was replacing my RPTV and also both of my sources support HDMI A/V (PS3 for Blu-Ray, and Toshiba XA2 for HD-DVD), it made sense to upgrade my receiver.

I did all the reading up on Onkyo's new summer line, and then asked a few ISF calibrators (who do audio setup calibration as well as video) what brands they preferred from a quality and reliabability standpoint. Two brands: Denon and Yamaha.

The only Onkyo models I was really considering were the 805 and 875. I eneded up buying a Denon 2807 for what an 805 would have cost me. Has all the bells and whistles one would ever need, and the Audyssey MultEQ does a very nice job of room configuration.

It's not all that beefy at 110 wpc, but I'm running front preouts to a Carver M4.0t (375 wpc @ 8 ohms, 500 wpc @ 4 ohms) to run my fronts, so that takes a nice load off of the receiver.

The only problem I've encountered, is that no matter what settings I adjust, I cannot get a signal to my sub when listening to CDs (I've tried all the LFE vs. LFE+ main, large vs. small settings, etc.). Rather than pull my hair out, I'll just wait until my ISF calibration in July.

I started with a Denon AVR-3200 (now in my office at work), then upgraded to an AVR-3803 (destined for my bedroom system) and now the 2807.

I don't think Denon has announced any HDMI receivers in this price range, hence the lack of discussion.

To the guy buying Sony, please don't. Just.....don't. Look at the Onkyos discussed. Same price, FAR better machine.

dharding,
How is your CD hooked up? What machine plays them, what wires?

OK you win, you got me looking at the Onkyo now. Why is it that the Onkyo TX-SR575 is $75 more than the TX-SR505 and the only difference I can find in 5 watts per channel. That hardly justifies the extra cash, What am I missing?

Just an FYI...

If you are wanting eventual Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA processing, neither the 505 or 575 will do it. The HDMI inputs on these are only passthrough for the video- no audio signal is passed. You'll need to get the 605 or above for this.

Also, as it relates to the 605 (and really the 705 and 805 as well), the "upconversion" in this case is actually transcoding, not actual upscaling. It upconverts in that it will take any analog input and transcode them to be output via the one HDMI going to the tv.

It was actually stated that there is no upscaling at all on the 605- basically it would output whatever resolution it was fed. Early reports from the few people who have them say that this is incorrect- at least somewhat. The 605 WILL upscale a 480i (or progressive) resolution up to 720p, however, it is only for the analog inputs on the receiver. It will not upscale anything at all if you have HDMI monitor set to on and are transcoding all your analog inputs.

I actually have a 605 on pre-order and I am excited to get it, but frankly, those of you who were kicking yourself for buying a 604 or 674 right before the new line was announced really aren't missing out on very much...yet. To my knowledge, there still aren't any HD sources that will send a TrueHD or DTS-MA feed via bitstream. Everything still sends a PCM track. The 605 and up may be capable of displaying "TrueHD" or "DTS-Master Audio" on the text line, but it will keep showing up as PCM for the foreseeable future. You can use analog multi channel inputs, but then, you could do the same on the 604 and 674 as well. For those of us who get the 605, we will be getting the exact same PCM audio you guys all get now. Until we all have HDMI 1.3 TV sets and all our HD-DVD and Blu-ray players can send the actual TrueHD or DTS-MA over bitstream, there is no difference. I have also been hearing that it won't matter anyway due to the fact that HD discs are authored in some advance mode that would require the TrueHD/DTS-MA decoding to be done on the player, not the receiver.

Well, I got the 605 and it's really good so far (meaning doing everything I'd wanted) with one hitch. I have my X-Box 360 set to display 1080i (using component cables), and when the Onkyo sends the signal through the HDMI connection to my TV, the image kinda judders a bit. When I set it to 720p, the judder is gone and it looks the same as if I connected it straight to the TV, but at 1080i, the judder is there. I could always just connect the 360 right to the TV, but that would negate one of the prime reasons for having the receiver .

I had upgraded from an older Yamaha and the base sound from the Onkyo is a lot more spatial than the Yamaha gave me.

Right, so I've learned what causes the judder when using HDMI to display my 360 signal. Any non-HDMI originating source that is sent through the HDMI out is converted to 720p by the faroudja chip. So, the 1080i signal the 360 sends through component cables is changed to 720p when outputting through HDMI. When I set it to 720p, there wasn't really any "work" done to the signal, so it looked correct. Anyone wanting to use a single HDMI cable from the receiver to TV that sends 1080i/p signals through component will have this problem .

Thanks for the info. I will definitely buy an 360 Elite then.

Luckily, my tv is 720p native, so I will be able to dodge this bullet for now. Where did you get your 605? Circuit City?

Ok, I just don't get it. Why should I pay more money for a receiver that is 2 jumps down in the model number? I know I bought last year's receiver (604), and the 505 is newer, but mine is still two models better.

Second I can't find any evidence that the 505 has DTA-MA and DD-HD decoders built in. The 605 does, but it's a lot more than $299.

Finally, my player does the decoding anyway. And there's no evidence that the decoders found in this year's line of receivers will ever be used. Might be, but the players (I have an HD-D2) still won't output the streams to the receiver. Plus nearly everything out there is advanced content anyway which must be decoded by the player anyway.

So you've not really made a convincing argument why I should buy the 505 for $299 when I was able to get a 604 for $255.

None of this makes any sense. At best it's ONE model up in series, but one generation back in generation. Seems like a wash at best. But it's features that you have to compare, and features wise, you are not nearly any better and probably worse. Please explain your rationale.

You are right, I w/d about the 505 decoding those two formats.

[/QUOTE]

Again, makes no sense. You say that the player does the decoding but YOUR player won't output the stream? Please explain. And yes, unless you are hooking your player to the analog inputs of your receiver from the player, you are NOT getting DD-HD or DTS-MA, but could get uncompressed PCM over HDMI through the 604.

[/QUOTE]

I honestly don't give two shits about convincing you what to buy, it's your money. I just think that others shouldn't make the same mistake.

It's inappropriate to quote your discount pricing on the 604 vs. the MSRP on the 505. The 505 is exactly the same price, $255, at amazon.com. So that seems to be a wash there.

So not even the XA2 outputs the DD-TrueHD streams? I thought all the second generation models could output the stream but all of them were also capable of PCM conversion because there were no receivers capable of decoding DD-TrueHD or DTS-MA.

At best? You're saying the 604/605 might be one model up from the 504/505? Besides, I don't know about last year's line, but this year has a 505, 575, 605. Looks like two jumps in series to me.

The 604 has more power (90W per channel vs. 75W). Beyond that, it's really hard to compare the features at the Onkyo site. Since you're the one who questioned my decision, I thought you could explain why my choice is a bad one.

My player is decoding the DD+ or DD True HD track, converting it to PCM and sending that to the receiver. That's what ALL HD DVD players do. There's not a single one on the market today that will pass the track to the receiver for decoding. HDMI 1.3 doesn't do squat at this point for advanced audio streams. The potential is there, but the players don't support it.

Also, 99% of the discs out there use advance authoring anyway. That means the player must do the decoding so it can mix in sounds from the player (menu noises and whatnot) with the audio tracks. If you think it's a better receiver because it supports 1.3, that's simply not true at this point. And lot's of people think it won't make a difference for a very long time, it ever, because of the advanced authoring.

Why the anger? I posted a great price on a great receiver. You called that decision into question. When I ask you to explain where I went wrong, you get all defensive. And you imply I've made a "mistake". If I have, I wish someone would point that out so I can return what I have for something better. I've still not seen a good explanation for why a 604 over a 505 is a "mistake".

You say that like I did it intentionally. I thought that was the price. But I just double checked and you're right. It's about the same price.

But it's still downgrading to get a newer model. Since my 604 plays everything I've thrown at it just fine (DD+, DD True HD), it seems a bit short-sighted to get rid of it for something that has features my player can't take advantage of. And as I already pointed out, it's the 605 that will decode the advanced audio tracks, the 505 doesn't. If anything, the "mistake" would have been passing on the 605 for the 604. I don't think the 505 would have done crap for me and been a lesser (albeit newer) receiver to boot.

This is just simply not the case. There is also a 674, btw. So there's the 5 and 6 series. You may be one series up, but you are also the fourth generation. Now we are on 5. So it's one series up, but one generation down. Surely you must agree that products tend to improve from generation to generation. Where you are getting two from I cannot for the life of me figure out.

You are correct it's hard to compare on the Onkyo site, but at worst, they are similar except for the power per channel, and let me tell you, 15 watts is barely noticeable at top volume.

Why limit yourself? Why not be a little more "future proof?"

Why limit yourself? Why not be a little more "future proof?"

:: I have nothing more to say to this.

All things being equal, and in this case they are, I'd rather have the newer model.

Glad you see that.

You simply have not explained why you think a series up but a generation down is "downgrading". In fact, the 505 simply looks like the 604 with a reduced power output.

Well, that and the fact that the 505's HDMI inputs are pass-through only, so no audio will be transported, where as the 604's inputs are fully functional- they may not be 1.3, but does it really matter at this point? MEJHarrison's last paragraph that you quoted sounds about dead on to me.

Well shit, I'm all out of bullets. I still disagree that it's "two steps up" (it just doesn't make any sense) but a 604 for $255 is a good deal. However, the best price I've seen for it is $400. MEJ, where did you get it for $255?

What exactly are you trying to argue here? When I go back a page or so, it looks like you are advocating the 605. Then on this page, you get into a disagreement with someone when it looks like you said 505 instead of 605 in at least two different posts.

If you did in fact mean 505 as you stated, then I agree with MEJHarrison that it is 2 steps behind the 604. The 505 is a piece of worthless crap to anyone who really has even a passing interest in home theater. Why would you spend money on an HDMI receiver only for it not to even process any audio? It is pointless. The 505 requires you to connect an additional cable (read: lesser quality digital optical/coaxial) for audio. At that point, you are getting Dolby Digital, DTS, or 2 channel PCM. Shit, I can get that now on my 7 year old receiver. Not every source has multichannel analog outs, either, Chief.

I think that MEJ and I both agree the 605 is superior to either the 604 or 505. Neither you or MEJ have adequately explained why the 505 is TWO steps back. It cannot possibly be.

You'll need to show me some tech articles explaining why one digital audio source (HDMI) is "superior" to another digital audio source (opt/coax). That doesn't make any sense at all. We can't talk about what it *will* pass since neither receiver will decode advanced codecs.

The argument for the 505 is pretty basic: It's $255 for an HDMI capable (even if pass through) receiver. MEJ got an incredible deal that I have yet to be able to find anywhere else. The lowest I've seen is $420, which is a great deal more.

You and MEJ seem to think I'm taking some aggressive, angry stand here, and that's just not the case. I don't care what he buys, and I don't agree with your logic. Isn't that a board is supposed to be about, friendly argument? If you can't handle that, "Chief", then find another dance partner.