it doesn't apply to the first...and definitely to the latter 2.

Yeah, pretty much any social/civil rights issue it will work for. Maybe I should think about trademarking it.

I haven't read this entire thread, but Criterion's decision (if that's what it is) to sit back and wait for the format war to play itself out seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'm doing the same thing. Those of you who were into laserdisc back in the day should recall that Criterion took its sweet time before embracing the DVD format. The market for SD DVD dwarfs the market for HD DVD right now, and despite the optimistic projections to the contrary, I believe that the studios' inability to agree on an HD format will retard the growth of HD DVD until it gets resolved. I'm not enough of a videophile to care about being an early adapter. I'd rather sit back and enjoy my substantial investment in DVDs (and laserdiscs, for that matter) than buy a bunch of new, expensive equipment for a format that may or may not survive long-term.

Wake me up when it's over. 16x9 SD DVDs still look pretty damn good to me. There's always going to be something better out there. If you have the interest and the resources to upgrade, though, more power to you.

The mathematics are much less important than what the human eye perceives. After a point, twice the mathematical resolution does not mean a picture is perceived as being twice as good. Obviously the returns begin to diminish at the upper end of what the human eye can perceive. Somewhere in between is the break point. But people aren't as likely to pay double (or much more) for something that is not perceived as being at least twice as good.

I know no one that was not amazed at the difference in quality between VHS and S-DVD (particularly considering the improvements in convenience, audio, and special features which HD-DVD improves on little if at all). Even old TV shows looked dramatically improved. This board is replete with those who claim nowhere near the same feeling about the jump from S-DVD to HD-DVD, myself included. Is it better? Of course. Amazingly better? Nope. When the cost difference is close to or at zero, and there is no doubt which HD-DVD format to go with, I will consider upgrading, but not before.

i could send you one. But it's only because it's animation.

Basically download the trailer for Ratatoillie from Apple. That's some of the best I've seen.

You can download high-definition clips online, but I'm not aware of any of comparable quality to HD DVD that are easily downloaded.

The difference is better appreciated on a television than a small PC monitor.

Personally I applaud Criterion not because I want to see those who have taken the plunge be deprived, but because it's nice to see the little guy stand up to the two giants and basically call them idiots for starting this format war. That's how I see it.

Will they care? Probably not. But Criterion could add a lot of prestige to one of the formats especially since CC is so visible amongst HT enthusiasts.

I'd say. Pretty close.

Honestly, none of the apple trailers OR broadcast signals are as good as HD DVD. The others are typically compressed too much.

Which part of "it's not available" do you not understand?

There are no VC1 clips available on the net.

Period.

Well, "screen size considerations" is an awfully big thing to set aside.

If you're running at a resolution lower than 1920x1080 and if your video card isn't beefy enough to keep up, you're not going to really be watching the clip in high-definition.

He recommended some be made available to help promote the fromat. Calm down.

Right, but not arguing math. I'm arguing perception. I was just saying that VHS to SVHS wasn't that big of a jump (mathematically or perceptibly) compared to DVD->HD DVD.

In other words, if you think SVHS is a big improvement over VHS, then you'll appreciate the jump from DVD to HD DVD.

SD DVD certainly isn't at the point where the improvements are not perceptible.

If people don't see it-- no big deal. I see enough of a difference that I won't be buying any more SD DVDs.

And we've repeatedly said that there really are none. The only ones out there are MPEG2 and MPEG4. No VC1. And yes, it does make a big difference.

Have you seen the HD DVD demo disc that is played in a loop at retail stores?

Approximately 5 seconds of that convinced me.

Ditto.

That demo from the "tour" probably over a year ago convinced me.

Actually I would say ther there was definitely a noticable improvement, but not enough to cause the masses to go out and pay double for players and media. Also, the new players could play both Std-VHS and S-VHS. Right now I think HD-DVD is in a very similar boat.
Agreed. But for a given mathematical improvement I think the perceived difference is diminishing.
Well enough put. People see it, but are not impressed enough to drop big coin on it just to play the most recent Adam Sandler movie.

There are none now? Or it is impossible to create them?

That's the big BD title...not HD DVD

We have Batman, Superman and Kong.

No, the HD DVD demo will be hooked to a single monitor (in Best Buy it was a Westinghouse 42" LCD panel) fed by a Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player. It has some clips of nature scenes shot in HD. It also contains lots of movie clips in HD.

The setups aren't the best, but I still think it shows pretty well. Just remember it will look even better when setup properly.

There's something about the way you put "We have..." that frankly gives me the heebie-jeebies.

And if I've learned one thing over the course of my life, it's that Batman always wins.

If you are looking for a VC1 1080p demo to download there is one floating around, though you will have to look at torrents or filesharing programs. It's called Elephants Dream

This title was the first European Hd-dvd title and also includes a nice interactive SD/HD demo on it.

I guess I'm curious as to how many people will actually be buying into the new formats. I gather not many at first, looks like these formats will be going the Laserdisc route, with only 1 difference, unlike Laserdisc which eventually died, whoever wins the format war (HD-DVD or BluRay) will eventually own the DVD market. Since we know that 10 yrs down the road, when a standard DVD player breaks down, they won't be making any replacements. We'll all have to eventually replace our SD DVD players with whatever HD format eventually won out. Fortunately 10 yrs from now the replacement unit will cost about $100 just like SD players cost today. Good luck to whichever format wins, I'll be buying a new unit in 10 yrs when my present ones break.

It's not VC1. It's avc.

Neither DVD nor HD even begin to approach the limit of what the human eye can perceive. Neither does 35mm film, which has a much higher resolution than either. If you were at the limit of detail the eye could perceive, you would literally not be able to tell the movie image on your screen apart from the real world around it. The human eye is an order of magnitude more sensitive than you give it credit for.