Yes. Four titles with TrueHD out of the how many released? Yeah, I take issue with that. You don't need bias to see that we, as consumers, are being jipped.

CJ made a good point about Corpse Bride...he said that since it was their first stop-motion movie, they gave more to the pic bitrate to be cautious. This was WHV's call.

So, there are alot more factors than you think.

You complain about hd-dvd, but you dont even speak of the fact that the BD version didnt include an uncompressed track either!

Oh, we are in a BHD thread....ill stop digressing

And now I have to admit that I really don't care much about TrueHD or any of the other audio formats. My ears are not nearly as good as my eyes, though. I actually think my iPod sounds great.

I wonder what problems they had with bandwidth. The topic has been discussed too much on AVS but I would think the live action movies with TrueHD like Troy/Batman/Superman Returns would take up more bandwidth than Corpse Bride?

Read my next post and maybe that will answer it.

Your next post?

What was this one? The trailer?

But I was talking about both formats. I don't know why people keep thinking that TrueHD is a HD DVD only audio codec. Incased you missed the announcement, Dolby said they would have 7.1 TrueHD in the PS3. The TrueHD track would be for both discs! I wouldn't care that the BD disc didn't have an uncompressed track as long as it had a TrueHD track.

Edit: missed your earlier post.

I gotcha. Sorry Rock I should read everything before I reply now.

Anyway, I'd prefer better PQ anyway over SQ. I'm just surprised this title was an issue for WB.

That is pretty insane if they are maxing out bandwidth!!!

Of course, that might be the bandwidth avaiable for VC-1 rather than the HD DVD limits. I don't think this was ever addressed as a potential issue with going with VC-1.

Ah, I didnt realize that you were speaking of both formats.

Thank God your HO is not gospel, Freak. Quality audio is not an extra. And IMHO, you should not consider it so. There still hasn't been a disc that would make me drop everything and go buy either format. It's looking like there won't be for some time. Esp considering the discs that do have this are only including 30 year old lossless tech so far.

Rock, Josh,
DD and DD+ can have the same bitrate on anything. DD+ adds better compression to fit more in that bitrate. And it adds 2 channels. That is the only difference between these two codecs. (I should say it adds many channels, limited to 2 more on HDDVD/BD)

Excellent...thanks for the info

Who said that the current audio specs are not "quality?" Certainly not *I*.

It really is. I'm curious what would cause this.

Well, I dont want to put words in his mouth.

He said to me "pushing the bandwidth" and josh said "maxing out the bandwidth", that may not necessarily mean the same thing.

I'm thinking it may be the computational limitations of the hardware. These advanced codecs are much more taxing on system resources than MPEG-2, and they may have hit a limit of what the players can process without drop-outs or skipping. Just a thought. I somehow doubt they are pushing the bandwidth limits of the format, as they are set high for MPEG-2 playback.

I would like to post on AVS and get Amir's take, but I don't want to call out CJ like that and quote him without him posting it.

Yes, if you do so, please do it generically, id rather not lose CJ's confidence.

I dont think anything he said to me on this subject is really "in confidence", but just in case.

Me. After I first listened to DVD-Audio and SACD 3.5 years ago. TrueHD is essentially DVD-A. PCM 96/24 is essentially the same, and DTS-HD-MA is at least as good.

Exactly why I won't be posting anything. It is his information to post, and if he feels he can post it, he will.

He is a real nice guy....so if you have a specific question, im sure CJ wouldnt mind a pm. I bet he could answer it for you.

BD also has a lot of titles with poor PQ as well as many with plain old SD DVD sound codecs. All the HD DVD titles I have seen at least have DD+. I would guess that TrueHD will become more common on HD DVD releases going forward.

The good news is that newer BD releases seem to have pretty good PQ and some, at least, have PCM audio. Why Sony refuses to use modern compression codecs for both picture and audio is a mystery to me.

However, I entirely agree with you (and kvrdave) that PQ and AQ are more important than extras. Nevertheless, why not have both? Using modern codecs they could do that, or, at the very least, they could include a second disc for extras. Instead they are releasing substandard discs. I just don't get it.
Spiky beat me to it on this one, so I assume that it is now clear that the compression algorithm is much more important than bit rates.

More to the point, I use DD+ and the difference between that and plain old DD (or DTS) is truly stunning. Whether Dolby TrueHD will be a noticeable improvement over DD+ on my system I look forward to checking on when I get my copy of Batman Begins in a couple of weeks.

The DD and DD+ streams on BD and HD DVD are exactly the same. You are correct that DD+ compresses better, but that also means that quality can be slightly worse than DD, atleast according to Dolby.

Well, DVD-A brings tears of joy to my eyes. And then tears of sadness when I think of it dying. And that's with Klipsch speakers!

Keep in mind that TrueHD and LPCM are still only giving you CD audio at this time on HDDVD/BD. One disc has LPCM 48/24, still not up to spec. Although for most things I rate CD PCM above DD/DTS. They (TrueHD & DD+ as currently used) are probably very comparable.

I have yet to find a single DD+ track that was anything but superior to the DD track. I definitely wouldn't buy a Blu-ray player that didn't fully decode DD+. DD+ holds up very well to the TrueHD tracks I have heard on Phantom and Troy.

It would be nice if we could get full 96/24 audio, but I doubt they want us to ever have a copy of the movie that close to perfect.

You've compared the DD+ track on HD DVD with DD track on Blu-Ray? Because the standard DD track on HD DVD can't be higher than 448Kbps, which is why they use DD+.