Clearly you missed my point. The members of the DVD Forum made a conscious decision to design packaging that was visually different than audio CDs, because they were concerned about the potential confusion the new disc-based format would create.

Of course it can happen with any of the various formats out there. My point was, and still is, that making the cases between two DIFFERENT formats appear IDENTICAL (and not just in a generic, for factor way, but in color AND in use of a specific logo embossed on the case itself) is a bad thing, and only serves to INCREASE the chances of that confusion occurring.

I think that Aunt Sally will obviously just gravitate towards the format with the most porn. If she needs to buy a new player, so be it...

If they have something that can play the BD movie, like a PS3, then it's not really a "problem" that they bought the BD, since it will play and will show on an SD TV, just without the boost in resolution.

Thanks for the correction. I only recall PSX games in CD cases, but I think I do remember the longer Saturn cases now. However, that Sony felt they could move to CD cases for the PSX without causing undue confusion, and it didn't, shows that people are able to distinguish between a game and other media on the same type disc. I think those huge "Playstation" banners on the cases help.

I'm not disagreeing about people making mistakes. But DVD-A and SACD did not do this. I've seen both in at least 3 different packages, some of those exactly the same as CD or DVD.

Perhaps that helped them fail.

I'm not sure of the logic here. Someone looking at discs to buy is obviously going to already have a player. So first they're going to be looking at players for the formats. Let's say that they do have the misconception that BD is PS3-only, so look for a HD DVD player. Well, when they go to a store they'll find it by the DVD players, and BD players. Plus, any self-respecting sales rep is going to mention both formats. So the misconception, if it ever really does occur, would be cleared up as soon as they go out to look at players.

Doesn't that prove that just a different case isn't enough to stop confusion? So quibbling over the case is irrelevant, since the confusion will arrive from having 3 different disc formats anyway. Oddly enough, having 4 different video game systems with the same size & style case hasn't caused excessive problems. Probably because the huge game system banners on the front clue people in, much like the PS3 BD games have.

Shockingly, a 7.1 analog output exists. Now we just need some price reductions and a few other points:

http://saitti.kuvat.fi/kuvat/PanaBD10/DSC_0051.jpg/full

They also made a concious decision to design a video case different from VHS. That's because they were selling different formats that had the same basic function (play video/ play music) When selling different formats of the same type indicators of different formats, like different cases, is needed. When selling two things of the same format but different types, the case difference doesn't seem to be needed, especially since they're significantly physically separated in stores (unlike audio CDs vs SACD and DVD-A) and feature other significant differences, like banners on the games telling them it's a video game for a specific system.


PS2 and Gamecube have the same color cases as DVDs, and PS2 games feature a DVD-ROM logo on them that look markedly like the standard DVD logo. The only difference is the prominence of the media logo, and I think that it will be overshadowed by the huge banner indicating that it's a video game on the cover that there won't be a significant increase in confusion over the existing DVD vs. DVD-ROM game situation we have.

And that is where we clearly disagree. You say the "huge banner" overshadows the Blu-ray logo. I say the huge embossed reflective logo that is part of the case itself, which is also exactly the same unique color, size and shape as the cases for a brand new movie format will vastly overshadow any game logos or banners for a lot of confused consumers, and I think that confusion could easily be avoided.

My question to you is, why argue in favor of confusion? That is what you seem to be doing. Whether the amount of confusion created is minimal or vast, if it can be avoided, why not avoid it?

This thread is funny. Really. Things are kinda slow these days, so now we're arguing about the confusion due to packaging. I wonder what's next.


Anyway, all this talk is making me want to go buy a player. Which means that I should probably buy a TV with 2 HDMI inputs (1 is going to be used by Directv HD). I'm ordering the TV at the end of the week. Decisions, decisions. It's a $200 price difference between the two models (no, the # of HDMI inputs isn't the only difference, but I don't really care for the other features).

If there's a way to debate about something, we'll find it.

Are you going HD DVD or BD?

UMD movies and PSP games had the exact same unique cases, and yet confusion between the two types was minimal, largely because stores often had them separate and consumers were smart enough to know the difference between a game and a movie despite them having the same case.

I don't think the logo will be a big factor either. It says "BD," not "PS3." I just don't see that many people confusing a BD movie for a PS3 game, and vice-versa.

I'm not, I'm arguing that any confusion will be minimal at best, and on par with existing case confusion, and overshadowed by the confusion between the 3 video disc formats in general, which the different style cases don't seem to be allieviating, since HD DVD manufacturers need to slap an explanitory sticker on top of the already different case.

Are you saying PS2, Xbox, 360, and Gamecube should all be using different cases to avoid consfusion?

I haven't decided whether to purchase a machine or not. But if I get one, it'll most likely be the A1.

You could buy a separate remote-controlled HDMI splitter for less than $200.

For around $120 you can get a 5-way splitter from mono-price:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...01&cp_id=10110

You'd have room for any additional devices that need HDMI inputs that come along futher down the line then.

I also think that if people are confused, they have gotten good at asking for help. BUT, how well do the employees know.

That's an interesting notion. I've thought about that option and the thing that annoys me the most is that ... I'm gonna have yet another remote control to fuss with.

Well, I may just have to get an audio setup when I buy the A1. A receiver with at least 2 HDMI inputs. If I'm going to have another remote, it may as well serve more purpose than to just switch inputs.

You can always get the non-powered, non-remote version for 28 bucks or so.

But, then youd have to get up!?!

Just be forewarned that none of the HDMI splitters/switchers currently available support HDMI 1.3 (or so I've been told by several people at AVS). If that will not be a concern for you, then it is certainly the most economical alternative.

Then again, my TV allows me to set up seperate video settings for each HDMI input. With a switcher, you could also lose that capability, depending on the TV you might choose.

That's right. It will say BD on PS3 games. That's been my point.

So, you're saying that, since others have screwed up, one more screw-up is just dandy with you. Hmmm... Not much point in further discussion then.

What's left?

Everything else is "bashing". Hell, if I posted segments from the BD reviews on this site it would be considered "bashing".

That's why this thread is dead.

Hey, stop bashing the thread!

One negative of the swticher is that then you have less reason to buy a new tv....

I'm sure there will be some confusion...but not as much as we think, at least between movies and games.
* They're likely to be in separate sections of the store...unless they're things like XMen which be considered tie-ins, they might be together to an extent.
* Price--HDDVDs are running 14.99-29.99, probably 24.99-29.99 in a store, correct? New release games for the new consoles will be 39.99-59.99. Granted, older games or 'greatest hits' will be 19.99-29.99, but still.

I can definitely see confusion between HD and BD, like someone said....how do you describe BD without using the term BluRay, or the phrase 'high definition'. Then again, if you have to tell Grandma to 'get the blue one', it's just as likely that she'd get the game instead.
Your self-purchaser, well, if he can figure out how to get a HDDVD/BD player hooked up and working as it should, he should be able to select the right disk.

I do agree, however, that it could be made more easily understandable. As we say in the document writing business, "Don't make it so it can be understood--make it so it can't be misunderstood."

Yup. There were three casing styles for PS games before they changed over to jewel cases.

I think it would be bad for BD to be considered "the PS3 movie format" if people associate it too closely with the way UMD was PSP's movie format. In the short term, it wouldn't matter if the format is tied to the system, but for BD to be a success it has to be MORE than the "PS3 movie format."

No, we won't!