You're getting boring, Freak. I think we get your opinion, you needn't post it in every other post in this forum. Neither has even engaged the enemy since hardware actually started shipping. 12 people have HD discs in any format, get a grip. (<--that's called hyperbole to prove a point, btw) 2007, 2008, maybe we'll start seeing something indicating a denouement.

Unless Sony is still being whupped. Then it will be 2009 or 2010. Or any year until BD has the lead.

You don't like reading it? Ignore me. Don't think your bullshit pompous posts don't get old too. It's pretty simple, actually.

Sony's BD player. Haven't you been paying attention? Perhaps you should do some research and come back to us.

Just did...as things stand right now.

There's no reason for overpriced underperforming crap to get marketshare.

DFNYC, I think you're in the extreme minority when you'd rather have HD-on-disc (BR/HD) die as a format rather than have Blu-Ray and HD-DVD coexist. Given the choice between HD-DVD & BR releases for 2007 and 2008 films or those films never getting past DVD, my choice is clear. And I think most people would agree.

(Note: We agree on the #1 preference between those four).

I would tend to agree. It makes no sense to me to be willing to see HD DVD die, just to spite Blu-ray. That would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.

My order of preference would be:
If it came down to it, I'd rather have Blu-ray than nothing. I'm in this for quality HD. As we all know, Blu-ray isn't delivering that today, but I don't doubt that someday they will. And when that time comes, if Blu-ray has "won" the war, then I'll grudgingly buy a player (but it will have to be affordable, i.e. $300 or less, and it won't be a Sony ).

Sorry. I screwed that up. Re-ordered.

Sorry, I'd rather have SD-DVD than BD. I wouldn't be paying that much more for quality that isn't much more than SD-DVD. And until BD proves itself in any capacity, there really isn't a war to talk about.

And btw, for those who care, the panasonic is supposedly coming out Sept 15 and the Pioneer on the 22nd. Let's see if they stick to those dates. As far as I can see, none of the major retailers even have them for sale.

As it now stands, I would agree with you (as, I'm sure, would most people). But I'm pragmatic enough to realize that eventually, the Blu-ray camp will get their act together and match HD DVD in quality, and that someday there will be affordable Blu-ray players out there. When that happens, if it becomes clear that HD DVD is going to go away, are you seriously saying that you'd rather have SD DVD than something else that offers the same quality as HD DVD?

Get over yourself. Just because I'm willing to be truthful about quality doesn't make me pompous.

And tell me this isn't pompous:
Um, yeah. Sony is not currently shipping a player, hence my sarcastic question about how it can be on any sales hierarchy. Come to think of it, don't you like pointing out this very fact yourself in your tiresome "BD is the devil" bs? Did you forget their player isn't out yet? Did you switch sides temporarily just to berate me, a middle ground guy, yet again? Or are you pissed I beat you to a snide Sony comment and feeling bitchy?

There's a word I wish more here could use to describe themselves.

Who says that will happen?

Honestly, it's not really entering my brain that BD might win this. They've done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to make one believe that they could, would or should.

But when and if it does, ask me again.

Oh...and Spiky, dear...this is all I see x2:

I'm SURE it was as enlightening as the rest of your posts, though. I'm confident that if you should ever say something of note, someone will quote it so that I can see it.

DFNYC Bitchy?! If only men had PMS, i'd say he'd have an excuse.

Thank God. Maybe I can post here now without my little bitchy shadow.

I'm sure we could all use a healthy dose of pragmatism.

I am the first to admit that I wouldn't shed a single tear if Blu-ray crashed and burned so hard that it made the Hindenburg looks like birthday cake candle (sorry, but that's the smallest flame I could think of ), and took Sony all the way down with it. And that I would be more than a little disappointed if Blu-ray does end up winning the war, mostly for emotional reasons (I'm just so tired of some of the BD/Sony fanboys chanting their repetitive mantra). But, if Blu-ray does win, I'll be grown-up enough to accept it, ignore the stupid victory cheers coming from the fanboys, and move on.

I am reminded of a quote I used to feature in my signature many years ago (pre-DVDTalk):

"That's the problem with common sense. It's far too uncommon."

I use that quote all the time; I've also applied it to "common courtesy."

I'm as disapointed in Blu-ray as anyone, but if they get it together and deliver a quality product and defeat HD DVD I will definitely get a Blu-ray player. Its a lot more about the movies than the media. If the HD DVD option is gone I will still want the hi-def movies. If both survive and combo players become the way to go then I will take that option as well.

Couldn't have said it better. Well, except that I would add the word "grudgingly" after "definitely" .

I know a lot of people keep hoping that a combo player will emerge, but I have this hunch -- can't really explain it, but it's just there -- that we'll never see a combo. This one is going to be a war to the death. Either one format will survive, or neither will. And personally, I really want something to survive.

So after a page of debate, you've agreed with me since the very beginning. It's pretty clear that nobody's ideal situation is a world of two formats. But just because we (and you) prefer it to Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD) or nothing at all doesn't mean that both formats winning is the first choice.

Let's be a bit more level-headed. It will make this discussion and this section of the board much more helpful for anyone thinking of getting into this format.

The more I think about it, I have to wonder if we won't see the hidef disc formats end up balkanized like gaming consoles.

Look at gaming systems... each of the platforms (Nintendo, Playstation, XBox) has its own exclusive games that can only played on its own system. Then there are games that are available for two, and occasionally all three, systems.

I have to wonder if we won't be seeing a future where, if you want to play a Columbia or Fox movie in hi-def, you'll have to have a Blu-Ray player. And if you want to play a Universal or Warner movie in hi-def, you'll need a HD-DVD player, with some studios (like Paramount) offering titles for both.

And, of course, enthusiasts would have to have both players just like a hardcore gamer might own a PS2, XBox 360, and a Gamecube; while the dilettantes would have to make do with just one platform.

Keep in mind that both BR and HDDVD are backward compatible with standard DVD... and even improve the picture... so there will still be availability of most content to both platforms, though not in true HD. (Unless, of course, someone decides to offer exclusive content to their HD players. Yes, I'm looking at you, Sony.)

So if you buy a HD-DVD player, you'll just have to be content with watching the Star Wars movies upconverted from standard-def on you player.

And if you buy a Blu-Ray player, you'll just have to be content with watching LOTR and Matrix upconverted to standard-def. (I realize that Warners is offering some support for the Blu-Ray format, but I frankly think it would be insane of them to offer up their big guns to the rival format.)

Which leaves Firefly fans with quite a dilemma...

(But, I have a feeling that if the format war isn't "won" in the next few years that someone will capitulate and allow multi-format players.)

Oh, sure. Like we don't already cry enough.

If memory serves, exactly zero people on this forum have claimed to want both to survive. Not that it's stopped certain ones from railing on other members as if they had said it.

I know I would prefer only one to survive. HD DVD has definitely earned my support and as long as HD DVD is viable I will put all my support behind it.

I don't think this will happen since software isn't easily ported from one console to another.

On the other hand both HD DVD and BD deliver the same end product: video encoded at 1080p24. It isn't terribly difficult to port that from one to the other (ignoring current BD disc limitations). The more economical solution will win.

If BD continues its quality and development problems, it will hasten the outcome.

While not easily ported, it is often produced or ported for multiple systems, with games produced for GC, PS2, and Xbox that are near identical. So system differences is not the main reason certain games are exclusive.

Rather, the majority of games that are system exclusives are those that are published by the system's manufacturer. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all produce and publish games themselves, and have a vested interest in making those game available for only their system. Third party publishers more often than not will produce the game for as many systems as is economically viable for them.

Carrying that argument over to BD vs HD-DVD, only those studios with a vested interest in one particular format would be totally reluctant to release a movie in two formats. Sony's Columbia is the most obvious example. None of the other manufacturers own a studio, and I don't think any of the other studios actually own a part of either technology. So Sony really is the only studio with a vested interest in exclusively serving one format.

Exactly. I fully believe that Disney, Fox, Lion's Gate, etc. will eventually start putting out HD-DVDs. If sales figures for software continue to be strong for HD-DVD, they'd be foolish not to, since there's no financial incentive for them to ignore those sales.

If everyone else comes aboard, I can live without Sony titles. The Spider-Man superbit upconverted on the A1 is fine for now.