DVD Josh

I'm frustrated on all sides (XBOX360, PS3, HDDVD, BR). I really feel like if they had just waited instead of rushing to be the first to market or the first to perfect, or for the perfect time, etc., we might be looking at a high quality, unified format.

The more I read, the more I think that HDDVD will win, not because it's the better product, but, like VHS, its the product that more people can obtain at a lower cost. After all, the only reason VHS exists is because Sony wouldn't share the Betamax technology.

I still feel like it's too early for the next gen digital format. We just entered a time frame where people have widely embraced DVD and now they are being asked to upgrade? How long did we have in between VHS and DVD, 15 years? Now clearly technology is moving faster than it did 20 years ago, but I still feel like it's a few years away from wide adaptation. Both technolgies have great promise, and I would hate to see them fail because they came out too soon.

Who knows. 5 years from now we may all have HDDVD/BR players and be thinking how we ever had SD DVD. Or we may not.

Burnt Thru

This is an excellent point. There must be a large section of the population who have only really embraced DVD fairly recently. It's probably asking a little much to expect them to go for a new system so soon after finally stepping off the VHS merry-go-round.

As to the thread topic, there are only two rumours I've seen. The first is that Toshiba are trying to get their 2nd gen units out before Xmas and at about $100 less than the current units. There was supposed to be an announcent of intent a short while ago, which passed untouched, so this scenario is perhaps a little doubtful now. The second rumour is that the 2nd gen players will not be SoC solutions, but will instead remain computers like these first devices. Which might present issues as far as mass manufacture and cost savings go - potentially impacting on Toshiba's ability to reduce prices yet further. Though then again these are just rumours.

Josh Z

First generation Blu-Ray players will offer:

- No Dolby Digital Plus
- No Dolby TrueHD
- No DTS-HD

Spiky

Most definitely, esp at their higher price points. I'm willing to drop a grand once it is worth it, that was the price of my DVDp. But clearly they aren't worth it, I want real sound.

digitalfreaknyc

Unfortunately, this "war" won't be decided by people who pay $1000 for DVD players.

HiFiLux

No problems with my A1 at all.

Spiky

I find it telling that people who wouldn't spend over $100 for a DVDp and ridiculed anyone claiming a $200 DVDp was a better buy are now frequently picking up the $500 A1. Similarly, I actually foresee myself going to as much as $1500 for a universal BD/HDDVD player if one ever comes about.

Perhaps some of those people would've had a different opinion of expensive DVD players if they'd seen what the Denon 2900 can do.

digitalfreaknyc

I wouldn't be one of those people.

Regardless of what people see, it's about what people can afford. You've already labeled yourself a snob Most people aren't able to put that much money into their home theaters. The Toshiba is absolutely fantastic for what it does.

AllHallowsEve

He's a snob because you can't afford a Denon? There's logic... lol

Maybe if you spent your time doing something else productive, instead of complaining continually (such as building work skills), you would make more money; therefore being able to afford them.

digitalfreaknyc

He called himself a snob. It was a joke.

Thanks for the info on how to run my life though. I'll get right on that.

Btw...even if I COULD afford BD, I never said I'd get it. It's not an issue of money. I've spent 2x what the PS 3 costs on Madonna tickets this year.

candyrocket786

Sounds like a baseless assumption to me.

Honestly...

I could afford some of that high-end HT stuff, but with ever changing technology...what's the point at spending all that cash?

You drop $1800 on a DVD player that will be replaced within a year or less by something better.

Hell... the same will happen to the HDA1, but at least I won't lose a ton of money over it.

TheKobra

I had lockup problems with my A1 and took it back to Best Buy. I waited a few weeks and picked up the D1 at costco and no problems with lock-ups at all.

Blitz6Speed

I was doing some reading on plasmas and LCD on avs forum and stopped by the HD Forum. I honestly couldnt beleive the amount of people having major issues with their hd-dvd setups. One guy actually posted that he has to clean, boil, wipe each and every disc before viewing, and if this is how it is from now on, he has no problems with it.

It is shocking to see this type of stupidity just to save a few bucks. But the main thing i noticed, is that the format and players have a ton of problems but they're talked down here like they're nothing. If anyone has any intrest in getting a HD-DVD player, i suggest doing research on AVS and see whats really happening with people and their players vs the sugar coated goodness you end up reading here. Nothing hurts from knowing more.

darkside

Sounds like there is some bad hardware out there. My player has never locked up on any disc and I have played dozens of DVDs and most of the HD DVD discs currently out there. Never had to clean a disc or boil it. I picked up the 4 year warranty since it was cheap, but I currently have no issues at all.

People having issues like that should take advantage of the warranty and send the player in to Toshiba for repair.

Coral

These are first generation players for a new format... you expect some problems. Not everyone is having issues so that's the main thing.

Expect the same amount of issues when Blu-Ray players are released.
And definitely expect a lot of bad PS3s to hit the market in the first few months, as new consoles always experience many issues.

Spiky

The Denon 2900 has never been replaced by anything better anywhere near its price. And it is not high end, Denon also sells a $3500 player. I still recommend that people look for one of these on the used market. They were still selling for half value 2 years after they were EOLed, quite high for a player.

The high prices (vs features) for 1st gen HD machines is why I want to wait. As mentioned, I probably plan on buying a $1000 machine, but not one of the first ones. Just have to see what happens.

Oh, and...I understood Freak's joke. Not a problem.

terisma

just waiting for the chinese brands to jump in and drive the player costs down. it would be more logical for them to side with hddvd since dvd factories can apparently easily make hddvds as well.

matome

Yep, I just picked up a Denon 2910 in December and it's awesome. I also have no qualms about dropping a grand on a hi-def player (be it HD-DVD or Blu-Ray), but I'll probably wait till second gen as well.

darkside

Actually the Denon 2900 is closer to the 3910 in comparison. Granted I really think the Denon 2910 is a top notch DVD, DVD-A and SACD player, but the Denon 2900 was pretty amazing in its day. You definitely do get what you pay for with the Denon models. I don't think the same will be true of first gen Blu-ray players and maybe not the first gen HD DVD players though they are at least cheaper.

FantasticVSDoom

Again, being able to afford them, and actually willing to buy them are 2 different things. For example, I can afford an HD-DVD, BR, and a new 1080p tv right now if I wanted to shell that kind of cash out. But why would I so early on? For myself, I don't chose right now to buy when if I just wait a little bit, I can get much more for my "hard-earned". The use of snob isnt a derogatory term in this sense. We know that Spiky is an enthusiast and he puts his money into his system.

awmurray

I don't know... just the ability to play HD DVDs is worth the $430 I paid...

digitalfreaknyc

Ditto. Cept I think i paid about $200 less than that.

RockStrongo

I agree that people should do research and never buy anything blindly.

The difference is that most of us (early adopters or trend setters whatever the econo term is) dont mind "minor" glitches for a first gen player. Thats all that I have experienced so far. I have not hidden my issues with the A1 (slow load time and crappy remote being the big two).

Your making them out to be a huge problem when for alot of people that just isnt the case. Everyone is different, but to expect it to perform flawlessly and like a current gen DVD player is quite absurd.

Hopefully, over time, these minor issues with be resolved via firmware updates. Even if they are not, someone could upgrade their player if they decide that these issues are too substantial.

Personally, I upgrade alot. Ive had probably 10 different dvd players over the years. I dont think my hd-dvd player will be any different. I will most likely upgrade it over the next year or so and ebay my old one. Its been a successful option for me in the past.

So, I get to watch HD-DVD in all its glory now. Not only that, but its an excellent upscaling sd-dvd player so I was able to sell my Oppo for $150 to cover some of the $440 that i paid for the A1.

digitalfreaknyc

Btw...for those who have problems with the remote, i would DEFINITELY suggest turning on the "remote tone." It's helped me out immensely. Whenever a button is pushed, a beep will be heard. That way you know if the machine has registered your request.

Spiky

The 2900 really was a 3xxx series player. It mostly replaced the 3800, another awesome model. But it isn't quite as solidly built as the 3800 and doesn't have as many features (like HDCD is missing), so its name and price got knocked down to the 2xxx. They wanted the audio to be excellent, so they had a custom-designed DAC that outshone anything at the time and pretty much matched the 3800. The x910 models have a newer DAC, but it is only as good. The 2900 was Denon's first attempt at a universal player, and is just plain amazing for a semi-Gen1 model.

And the picture is just stunning. On film-based material. On taped/video material it has errors. For someone with a massive anime or concert collection, it would not be the best choice. I have the same Faroudja de-interlacing chip in my TV as all these highly-touted upscaling players have. So I can pick which video system to use and get the best for film and the best for video.

Sorry for rambling OT. It's just that I go from 24 in HD to a Superbit or equivalent DVD and the picture actually gets better. Which is the fault of Fox for making 24 low quality this year, but it shows the real capability of the DVD system. I think many people go from a $100 DVDp on a 27" TV to HD on a 40-50" HDTV and think DVD sucks. My experience is not the same. Part of the reason I'm in no hurry to jump on high-rez discs and am happy waiting for Gen2 or even after.