Exactly. The HD-DVD people only badmouth the BD people, not the product.

Again, no one is being badmouthed on the Blu-Ray side. They are VERY grade school about the whole thing, though.

Please elaborate.

The anamorphic version of a DVD has extra information on it that the non-anamorphic one does not have. It has a higher resolution. This cannot be compared to 1080i vs 1080p because all HD-DVD discs are encoded at 1080p, therefore only a player (at the most) would have to be changed-- not the media.

As far as future proofing, it would be better (to me) to get the $500 HD-DVD player w/1080i output and then get a 2nd gen HD-DVD player for < $500 with 1080p output than to end up with a first gen BR deck for $1000. And that's assuming you have a 1080p TV in the first place.

The 1080i/p debate has to do with deinterlacing (not new information, just recomposing the existing information) not increased resolution.

I think this is just another straw that rabid BR supporters are grasping for in an attempt to show that HD-DVD is inferior. The truth is the PQ will be the same, but BR players will cost twice as much.

Another example is the studio support. BR supporters like to say:

• Blu-Ray has ~80% of studio support, HD-DVD has only ~45%

Why not say it this way:

• Less than 50% of all movie titles will be available on Blu-Ray, while more than 50% will be available on HD-DVD.

They're both true (as it sits right now), but you don't hear BR folks saying the second line.

EDIT: And, yes, I'm fully aware that all studios will eventually support the winning format. BR supporters seem to not even admit this simple fact.

Be careful, digi already owns Jimmy's ass...

However, deinterlacing artifacts might happen. But if the signal is 1080p all the way, you eliminate that possibility. Just like it happens with DVD players with an HDMI output - you eliminate the possibility of the video signal being altered by the DACs.

"rabid" BR [sic] supporters. Who's saying now that BD supporters don't get badmouthed?

If the PQ will be the same, how come Toshiba will include 1080p in its 2G players?

Because "this way" is false. The proof:

We assign a variable letter to the percentage of movies from each studio: D, F, L, M, P, S, U, W. Those are between 0 and 100.

You say that:

P + U + W > 50

and

D + F + L + M + S + P + W < 50

It follows that

P + U + W > D + F + L + M + S + P + W

Substracting (P + W) from both sides we get

U > D + F + L + M + S

So the only way your claim could be true is that the number of movies in the catalog of Universal was higher than the aggregate number of movies of Disney, Fox, Lionsgate, MGM and Sony.

Which is not true. QED.

The studio with the biggest catalog is Warner... and Warner is supporting both formats.

Yes, they might happen, if the TV in the equation does a poor job of de-interlacing. But with a good quality TV, they won't happen. Unfortunately, many of the rabid Blu-ray supporters continue to cling to this "might be" scenario as a defect in the HD-DVD format, when it is no defect at all, and shout from the rooftops that it will happen 100% of the time (since Blu-ray supporters seem to love percentages, I just thought I'd throw that in).

Kind of like how Fox absolutely refused to support the DVD format because it didn't offer the pay-per-view model they insisted on, while the (to them) superior DiVx format did. Gee, it sure is too bad Fox never released any movies on DVD. :rolleyes:

If the extra capacity is just being used for bonus features and interactive games, there's no reason they couldn't include those as part of a 2-disc set.

Disney has already intimated that they will likely release titles on both formats.

Finally found where I read this. It was on ZDNet News:

In response to this, all I can do if offer some history from the DVD format. When it launched, both Fox and Disney refused to release any product on it, citing that the copy protection was inadequate. Yet, when player sales reached a point where they could see that they would soon begin to lose sales, they did reverse their position, and did release titles on the format.

If HD-DVD sales are strong enough, the same type of reversal is entirely possible. History has been known to repeat itself.

So, why not take the TV's deinterlacer out of the equation? If the signal stays 1080p all the way, you can't muck it up.

No one has ever said otherwise. All I have done is point out that the absolute claims made by many Blu-ray supporters, namely that 1080i60 de-interlacing can't be as good as 1080p24 output, are absolutely false.

You said:

1. Less than 50% of all movie titles will be available on Blu-Ray
2. More than 50% will be available on HD-DVD.

Your link proves (2), which I don't disagre with. Can you find a link for (1)? (hint = you can't)

Exactly. The current "support" statements for BR show their preference for one format (because of stricter DRM). They want to throw their support behind it which will hopefully sway customers to choose one format over the other.

However, the final decision will be based on market factors-- i.e. what is selling. Ultimately, they are in the business of selling movies... they won't go down with a sinking ship (not even Sony).

I don't care who wins, but hope one wins quickly.

BR's biggest fear has to be studios going agnostic and supporing both formats as Netflix's CEO advocated this week. That way, the market can truly decide.

If HD-DVD sells well Disney will release on it. However HD-DVD sales would have to trump Blu-Ray to get Fox and Blu-Ray would have to completly dead to get Sony. The chances of getting Universal to come to Blu-Ray are much higher. When Universal comes to our side it is OVER. Completly over. As long as Universal a studio with lots 13% of all movies including many great favorites supports HD-DVD exclusively the format will survive. Be honest who would buy a format with 45-60% support over a 100% support format. The milisecond one format gets 100% studio support it wins. Since Blu-Ray is more likely to get 100% studio support first it is far more likely to win.

Absolutely history repeats itself. DVD had more studio support than Divx, and the holdouts (Fox and Disney) ended up caving in. So this time who was it again who had more studio support? and who is the holdout who will cave in?

DVD and DIVX weren't the same thing though.

Yes, this is probably true. That statement has been nagging me for a while... I asked if it was true on a thread somewhere and people felt that it might be true that more movie titles would be available on HD-DVD. This was based on the supposition that Universal had the biggest catalog. You're saying Warner is?

It is true that 2 doesn't imply 1 (given that some studios are agnostic).

And finally it comes out. Your side? What does this mean? Are you an engineer responsible for the design of part of the Blu-ray spec? Do you have a financial investment (stock, that is, not products) in the format? Why do you view it as your side?

I don't have a side. I win no matter what. I have HD-DVD now, and when Blu-ray players are affordable, I'll have one of them, too (assuming quality Blu-ray players ever become affordable). It's just sad that you can't see the same thing.

THIS, is another example of Sony fanboyism. Jumping to conclusions.

Nor are HD DVD and Blu-Ray.

In terms of their sales and marketing model, they are exactly the same thing. DVD and DiVX were never even close to being the same, other than both being based on small optical discs.

Much better if you read it like I did:

[queue ESB music]

[Darth Vader Voice]
When Universal comes to our side it is OVER. Completly over. The rebel alliance will crumble.
[/Darth Vader Voice]

EDIT:

The average person isn't going to know which format has what percentage of studio support. They're going to be driven by price and perception/name-recognition. Here's an article that summarizes what I believe exactly: Why HD DVD will prevail: my opinion.

I know you really think BR has it in the bag... you've staked your ass on it for crying out loud...

But really, they are. A format to see movies in HD. You buy them once. You watch them the same way. They're just played on different players and that is the ONLY difference.

Exactly, eh? Disney official stance on supporting Blu-Ray was so that it could deliver extra content to the end consumer in addition to high definition video and content. Has Universal made any similar statements on their marketing model?