classicman2

As I have said, I haven't visited the site in quite sometime. My problem with it when I did visit it in the past was that many of the reviews the folks made about movies were taken directly from some critic. In fact some seemed to be word for word. The guy in Chicago (not Ebert -whose name escapes me) was particulary popular - I guess because he's quite wordy.

Josh H

Asking "when is x movie coming out" is not a poll. The poll threads are crap like "whats your favorite..." "Best..." etc. etc. Questions are fine, pointless polls are not, especially not in the quantity we have gotten lately. We need DVD Talk, General Move Talk, and a poll area. Narrow forums are better. Look how easy it is to surf through the threads in At The Movies, Video Game Talk and TV Talk.

Those are discussions, not stupid questions that can be answered with a couple of words or a short list. There is a big difference between and serious debate thread, and something like, "whats your favorite ice cream."

The poll forum wouldn't need much moderation, it would just be a bunch of crappy polls, all the mods would have to do is move the poll thread into it. People would eventually catch on.

Bushdog

joshhinkle, at this point our discussion diverges. At times you criticize polls across the board, and at other times you restrict your criticism for the Talk forum. I think there is a more tenable argument in Talk than in Other.

Josh H

The talk forum is my main concern, the numerous polls in other are annoying, but that forum has pretty much became useless anymore anyway. The sports threads are the only thing that keep me checking there, and the occasional (rare) intelligent political debate. In other words, I don't care what happens to it.

DVD Talk needs to be remedied though. It should be centered around DVD's. Movies should be discussed in a movie forum, and polls in a seperate forum. Maybe there could be a "Movie Polls" forum and we could leave the crappy banal polls in the other forum with the rest of the crappy banal threads in there.

Bushdog

So what is your opinion of the Other forum?

Josh H

It used to be full of thoughtful conversations and threads and I loved it. Now its full of polls, pad threads, and stupid conversation threads. I don't come online to have conversations and build "friendships." I do that in real life. I come online to find information and have fun debating stuff.

X

I must say I agree. I used to enjoy the relatively intelligent conversation that took place. As much as I like having light give-and-take and fun repartee, that's virtually all there is any more. (If you even get that in the seemingly endless string of mindless polls.) I'm still around, but spend more and more time in AVS and HTF.

Chumley1

"Polling for responses"? Please don't be an idiot by clouding the issue. I think we can all tell the difference between a poll and a legitimate question. Just having a place where people would know they could go to post polls would greatly clean up the problem. I don't think a lot of moderation would be needed once people figure out that there is a specific forum for polls.

I don't mind occasional polls. I even participate in a few myself. But the Talk forum is SO overrun with absolutely insipid CRAP that it's no longer worth visiting.

Scott27

Simple (I think) solution to that problem (if a Polls forum is ever created): have Geoff and all the moderators meet and decide (with input from the membership) exactly what is or is not a poll. Essentially, make an "official" DVDTalk definition of what a poll is. Geoff could add it to the Terms of Service (or whatever it's called) that everyone is supposed to read when they register and add it as the announcement at the top of the forums. That way, the members (and mods) know exactly what a poll is and there could be no whining from a member if a mod moves their thread to the Polls forum and the member didn't think it was a poll.

classicman2

Cease the name calling, and tell us:

What is definition of a poll? Don't cop out with the lame answer that "everyone knows what it is." You englighten us with your definition.

Scott27

Classicman, I will kindly point you to the post directly above yours for MY idea of how we can get around that touchy area.

Josh H

My definition of a poll, is a question that is just asked to get short replies or lists. Obviously a single question like "When is x movie coming out" is not a poll. Or any other simple question like this,once it is answered the thread is done. These type of questions have merit and were asked for a reason as they are designed to obtain information. Polls are stuff like: "Best/Worst Movie, Best Worst actor, Whats your favorite ________, etc." These have no use for the Talk forum. In reality there nothing more than pad posts. People post their answer or list, and don't even read the other posts in most cases. Asking an opinion on something that leads to a discussion is a poll, but those aren't really a problem. They lead to thoughtful debates and are unfortunately few and far between. It's stuff like "Best movie to watch while intoxicated" that is cluttering the Talk forum while not adding anything of value. Threads like that can be answered with nothing more than a couple movie titles, and don't have any conversational value. Just a bunch of people posting movie titles.

Chumley1

Fine, I'll humor you.

I think it's very simple. A poll is an attempt to get a large sample of public opinion. There's very little discussion (or none at all), just a bunch of people throwing their opinions into the ring. Example: "What's your favorite Nick Nolte movie?"

A non-poll question (the kind that I imagine you are suggesting could be construed as "polling for responses") is a legitimate attempt to gain information. Example: "Is [such-and-such] out of print?"

The only gray area would be a question like "Is [such-and-such] worth buying?" It's asking for opinions, but presumably there would be some serious in-depth discussion, thus falling outside the parameters of a poll as described above.

But be totally honest, don't you know a poll when you see one? Don't say "no" if you're just going to do it to be contrary.

Chumley1

Heh, josh is thinking exactly like me.

Another thing: I think most people would have enough sense to understand what a "Poll Forum" means, and use it appropriately without getting bogged down in the semantics of "what defines a poll?"

classicman2

I think we have an impasse on what consitutes a poll.

I personally believe, rather than a separate polls forum, we should expand and rename the current "At The Movies Forum" to include a discussion of all movies - both past, present, and future.

Josh H

Here's a list of the threads currently on the dvd talk front page, below I'll regroup them according to where I think they should go. And yes I have too much time on my hands. I have a cold and don't feel like doing anything active, and there's nothing on tv. I opened and skimmed the threads that weren't titled clearly to see where they should go.

-WOW
-"The Criterion Collection, a continuing series..."
-BigTrouble In Little China Official Specs
-Soon-To-Be OOP Criterion DVDs
-Hard-To-Find DVD online stores
-Would you open a sealed SOTL: CC dvd?
-Jean Claude Van Damme or Steven Seagal?
-Anyone know where I can find a GODZILLA COLLECTION?
-I got my Total Movie rebate check
-One and Only ANIME Discussion Thread
-What's your favorite cameo appearance?
-Have a question about Criterion? Why Armageddon, etc.?
-Best High School Movies???
-Name one (or two) actors you like that no one else seems...
-The PHANTOM MENACE DVD Date Is
-Best ninja film?
-Martial Arts Top 10 debate
-"Kill Shot" with Denise Richards and Casper Van Dien
-Trailers/Teasers. What is your favorite?
-Reservoir Dogs question
-1 Disc Army of Darkness LE - Is it really limited to 40000? OOP, NOT?
-The Ten Commandments, no reviews anywhere need feedback!
-who sings "sayonara" (M.Brando movie)
-Your favorite classic "Hollywood" musical?
-Any good DVD Magazines?
-whats yur grandma's favorite movie??
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz - Good as standalone movie?
-? for Lucio Fulci fans
-What actor or actress has most of their movies on DVD?Anybody?
-Romper Stomper-- Any Good?
-March/April - Topic: How Many DVDs do you have ?!? 1.6
-Any sites have a list of DD 5.1 EX and DTS-ES titles?
-The Killer / Hard Boiled / Army Of Darkness
-Best Movie to check Surrounds?
-Night of the Creeps
-Star Trek Rumors
-Requiem for a Dream...please clear out..NC-17 or R
-? about some Anchor Bay preorders
-Best Stunts Ever
-What studio do you have the most DVD's from?


DVD Talk
-? about some Anchor Bay preorders
-Star Trek Rumors
-Night of the Creeps
-The Killer / Hard Boiled / Army Of Darkness
-March/April - Topic: How Many DVDs do you have ?!? 1.6
-Any good DVD Magazines?
-The Ten Commandments, no reviews anywhere need feedback!
-1 Disc Army of Darkness LE - Is it really limited to 40000? OOP, NOT?
-I got my Total Movie rebate check (this ones borderline, but it is an old dvd magazine)
-The PHANTOM MENACE DVD Date Is (should be in an existing star wars thread, but it is in the right forum)
-Have a question about Criterion? Why Armageddon, etc.?
-"The Criterion Collection, a continuing series..."
-BigTrouble In Little China Official Specs
-Would you open a sealed SOTL: CC dvd?(definitely a poll, but clearly dvd related so I'd leave it, it also has some purpose.)
-Soon-To-Be OOP Criterion DVDs
-Hard-To-Find DVD online stores

General Movie Discussion
-Romper Stomper-- Any Good?
-Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz - Good as standalone movie?
-? for Lucio Fulci fans
-who sings "sayonara" (M.Brando movie)
-Reservoir Dogs question
-"Kill Shot" with Denise Richards and Casper Van Dien
-One and Only ANIME Discussion Thread
-WOW (about Wonderboys getting screwed at the Oscars)

Poll Forum
-Best Stunts Ever
-What studio do you have the most DVD's from?
-Best Movie to check surrounds? (probably best suited for the Home Theater Hardware forum)
-What actor or actress has most of their movies on DVD?Anybody?
-whats yur grandma's favorite movie??
-Trailers/Teasers. What is your favorite?
-Best ninja film?
-Martial Arts Top 10 debate
-What's your favorite cameo appearance?
-Jean Claude Van Damme or Steven Seagal?

See how much more organized things would be if it were done this way. It seems to me that it is pretty easy to sort these out. It took me about 10-15 mins, and that was from cutting and pasting. A mod could skim through and move the threads much quicker than that. Plus once the forums were established, few people would post the off-topic stuff in the DVD Talk forum. I mean it's rare to see a TV or Video Game thread in Other now, and that used to be the place to post those things. People catch on quick and having several narrow forums is better for both members and mods than having a few broad ones that get a ton of traffic and get cluttered quickly. There might be a need for a couple more mods, but I'm sure Geoff would have no problems finding volunteers.

[Edited by joshhinkle on 03-18-01 at 07:02 PM]

Chumley1

I thought of that as well, and that's certainly a viable alternative.

Josh H

I too think that might work, we could try it for a while and see if the new "Movies" forum was too cluttered with polls. If it is then we could start the polls forum, maybe that would help unclutter "Other" as well. At any rate we do need to rename "At The Movies" to "General Movie Discussion." It gets very little traffic now, and doing so would stimulate it, and unclutter the DVD Talk forum as I've been saying for months. See the "How about a geneneral movie discussion forum" thread I just bumped up.

classicman2

The powers that be will never go along with our idea.

I believe it is their position that would it "diminish" the Talk Forum.

Bust

wow, thats amazing. I did the same thing but it was a state college and it was my Bachelor's Degree.

Gandalf

Someone was complaining about the poll abundance in DVD Talk as opposed to TV Talk. Here are some candidates from the TV Talk first page of threads that will most likely fit your description of "polls":

What did you think of Newsradio?
Who would win in a fight, BUFFY or ANGEL ?
Anybody going to watch"Face/Off"tonight on NBC?
Will you watch Boot Camp?
TV Shows which have/had lots of NUDITY ?
What's your Favourite "Killing Off" of a Character in a TV show ?
Who loves Son of the Beach?
Hottest TV sister or brother !
What channel do you watch the most?
WEIRDEST TV show ever?
TV Shows with a High Rewatchability Factor

The only difference that I can see between the situation in DVD Talk and the one in TV Talk is because of the expectations in each of the forums. I mean, I would not want TV polls in a separate polls forum, but rather in the TV Talk as they are now. However, in the case of DVD Talk, the area is so large that a lot of people feel frustrated by the abundance of "silly" polls for lack of better discussion topics.

Gandalf

Also, I think widening the scope of "At the Movies" would be a terrible idea. I am reading that forum _exactly_ because it tackles exclusively new releases. These topics will easily get lost among others if the forum was to become a more generic one.

Josh H

The difference is the amount of traffic. DVD Talk gets enough that clutter is a problem, TV Talk does not.

Scott27

First off, the NewsRadio thread is NOT a poll in the sense of asking a question that can be answered by a simple yes/no or a number. Those are the threads most of the people who want something done are worried about. I actually like that thread because it's actually asking for an opinion, and it's getting interesting responses, unlike a thread like "What was the best Robert DeNiro movie?" a recent thread I remember from the main forum.

Second, most of the threads in the DVDTalk forum area are NOT about DVDs, they are about movies in general and/or actors/actresses. Those do not belong in the DVD forum. The polls you quoted, though, from the TV forum are about TV and, thus, they belong in that forum, and I have no problem with them. I'm sure most people feel the same way about them.

classicman2

Don't you have that problem with general movie discussion being in the DVD Talk forum as it is now - and even more so??