2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
#201
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I have last year's Criterion Challenge to thank for me finally exploring Bergman. I watched Smiles of a Summer Night, The Seventh Seal, Wild Strawberries and The Virgin Spring; I enjoyed each (though I confess Smiles wasn't as fulfilling). The Virgin Spring is pretty powerful stuff, and like mrcellophane, I needed a little time to fully digest it. Intellectually, I was with it while watching but I needed some time to sort out how I felt about what I'd seen and whether it was merely shocking or genuinely upsetting. I eventually determined it was a real reaction (at least, insofar as a reaction to a manufactured work of fiction can be real).
As for me, I just finished streaming The Naked City, one of the remaining Criterion titles available via Netflix Watch Instantly. My thoughts:
As a story, it's much more a "police procedural" than "crime noir," and from a production perspective it's more a guerrilla film than studio piece. New York City homicide detectives work the case of a young woman found murdered, and each step of legwork in their investigation is shown leading them across the city. Shot entirely on location, we get a strong feeling of what late 40s New York was really like and it's this atmosphere that makes The Naked City interesting to behold 63 years later.
It's easy to see The Naked City as a precursor to Law & Order. Dragnet also comes to mind, of course, largely due to the omniscient narrator (film producer Mark Hellinger). Though, it's worth noting, the narration I found detracted from the film--chiefly the instances where the narrator addressed characters on screen. For instance, he says as we see beat cops take their orders, "Go get 'im, boys; there's only half a million big guys in the city!" It's rather silly, and this MST3K-style running commentary sanitizes the film.
Oh, and Trevor: you should promote your story to the producers of Hoarders, or maybe a wedding-oriented reality show. They might at least cough up some money to help make all this happen for you.
As for me, I just finished streaming The Naked City, one of the remaining Criterion titles available via Netflix Watch Instantly. My thoughts:
As a story, it's much more a "police procedural" than "crime noir," and from a production perspective it's more a guerrilla film than studio piece. New York City homicide detectives work the case of a young woman found murdered, and each step of legwork in their investigation is shown leading them across the city. Shot entirely on location, we get a strong feeling of what late 40s New York was really like and it's this atmosphere that makes The Naked City interesting to behold 63 years later.
It's easy to see The Naked City as a precursor to Law & Order. Dragnet also comes to mind, of course, largely due to the omniscient narrator (film producer Mark Hellinger). Though, it's worth noting, the narration I found detracted from the film--chiefly the instances where the narrator addressed characters on screen. For instance, he says as we see beat cops take their orders, "Go get 'im, boys; there's only half a million big guys in the city!" It's rather silly, and this MST3K-style running commentary sanitizes the film.
Oh, and Trevor: you should promote your story to the producers of Hoarders, or maybe a wedding-oriented reality show. They might at least cough up some money to help make all this happen for you.
#202
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I've only gone two movies further than you into this set so far, but my favorite is Take Aim at the Police Van-not surprising, as Seijun Suzuki seems to be the master of the yakuza genre, based of the relatively few films that I've seen by him so far. I Am Waiting and Rusty Knife are also well worth watching. I've had the same impression that you had-many Japanese yakuza films seem like they could have been Hollywood noir 10 years before.
Just watched The Tale of Zatoichi, which I was surprised to find was another noir, in both senses of the term. It seemed to be about the darkest film that I have ever seen in terms of its lighting, and very much in the spirit of film noir, even though they fight with swords. This was my first period yakuza movie. I was also surprised by the quality of the movie, since my expectations weren't that high, knowing that 25 movie sequels and 100 TV episodes followed. Looking forward to more of Ichi.
Just watched The Tale of Zatoichi, which I was surprised to find was another noir, in both senses of the term. It seemed to be about the darkest film that I have ever seen in terms of its lighting, and very much in the spirit of film noir, even though they fight with swords. This was my first period yakuza movie. I was also surprised by the quality of the movie, since my expectations weren't that high, knowing that 25 movie sequels and 100 TV episodes followed. Looking forward to more of Ichi.
And I tried the disc out on three different monitors: two CRT's and one flatscreen: just as dark on all of them.
Last edited by Ash Ketchum; 09-06-11 at 06:42 AM.
#203
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
As for me, I just finished streaming The Naked City, one of the remaining Criterion titles available via Netflix Watch Instantly. My thoughts:
As a story, it's much more a "police procedural" than "crime noir," and from a production perspective it's more a guerrilla film than studio piece. New York City homicide detectives work the case of a young woman found murdered, and each step of legwork in their investigation is shown leading them across the city. Shot entirely on location, we get a strong feeling of what late 40s New York was really like and it's this atmosphere that makes The Naked City interesting to behold 63 years later.
It's easy to see The Naked City as a precursor to Law & Order. Dragnet also comes to mind, of course, largely due to the omniscient narrator (film producer Mark Hellinger). Though, it's worth noting, the narration I found detracted from the film--chiefly the instances where the narrator addressed characters on screen. For instance, he says as we see beat cops take their orders, "Go get 'im, boys; there's only half a million big guys in the city!" It's rather silly, and this MST3K-style running commentary sanitizes the film.
it's more a guerrilla film than studio piece.
I enjoy the location work in NAKED CITY a great deal, but I have problems with the storyline and casting. It's a fairly routine and somewhat contrived crime story and I would have preferred a true crime story, something based on real life. And I really wish the main actors had been authentic New Yorkers instead of second- or third-tier Hollywood imports Barry Fitzgerald, Don Taylor, Dorothy Hart, and Frank Conroy. I'll give Howard Duff a pass because I've always considered him pretty cool. Fitzgerald's blarney act as the chief investigator really annoyed me. I did like Ted de Corsia as the object of the manhunt. He's very believable and his scenes really pump up the picture, especially in the chase sequence. As for the leads, if they were gonna pull stars from Hollywood, how about picking from those who grew up in NYC? Edward G. Robinson and John Garfield as the older and younger cop. How great would that have been? Or Cagney and Kirk Douglas?!! Or Humphrey Bogart and Burt Lancaster? Okay, okay, I'm just dreaming. I'll stop.
The supporting cast, though, has a ton of future name actors from New York's acting pool, including Carl Reiner, Paul Ford, James Gregory, John Marley, Arthur O'Connell, John Randolph, and four from Yiddish theater: David Opatoshu, Nehemiah Persoff, Molly Picon, and Celia Adler.
Last edited by Ash Ketchum; 09-06-11 at 04:17 PM.
#204
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I would disagree with this. "Guerrilla" implies shooting on the fly, sneaking shots in public without permits, etc. This was a full studio production with big crews and closing-off of streets and full cooperation with the city. It just happened to be shot entirely on location.
#205
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I see what you mean and I agree. I was reading "guerrilla" too literally. I think a lot of the credit goes to director Jules Dassin (who grew up partly in the Bronx), who gave the street scenes a feel that was unusual for a Hollywood film of the era. I mean, compare his street scenes with those by Henry Hathaway (who'd been with the studios since the 1920s!) in the films I mentioned and you'll see a whole different approach. And NAKED CITY got a lot more press and critical acclaim for its New York location work than the Hathaway films did.
#206
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
Quick checklist question: for the entry, "Watch an entire Criterion Collector's Set/Eclipse Box Set," does that mean we have to watch every movie in a set, or do we have to watch every movie and every special feature?
#207
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I've always interpreted that as just the features, as there is a separate checklist item for watching every special feature. And on that checklist item, one should choose a Criterion that actually has at least a few special features, and not one of the many bare bones releases. Just my personal opinions. CG?
#208
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
Still there.
Great comments. I wish I could convey my thoughts on films but feel like the extent of my "review skills" are "i loved/liked/hated it."
Watching that as we type.
That would require effort, I'm not good at effort. Plus, hopefully, I'm not quite up to their standards.
Wait. I'm watching this to qualify for the Hulu-only part of the checklist. Criterion hasn't put or announced it on disc yet have they?
Speaking of Bergman, I watched The Virgin Spring for the first time today. I am a bit speechless; I find that I have that reaction upon watching any of his films. I remember watching Persona and initially feeling numb about the experience. The next day, I started silently crying in the middle of the afternoon and had to rewatch the film. I have to process each of his films, sometimes for days before I sort out feelings and impressions. (Also, if you do watch the film, all of the special features on the DVD are work checking out, especially "Ingmar Bergman at AFI.")
My response to Douglas Sirk's films are the opposite. I watched All That Heaven Allows a couple of days ago and reacted immediately. The film's themes hit perhaps a little too close to home, and my mood was changed for the rest of the day. Bergman's film deals with heavier themes and traumas than Sirk's but is so much quieter. Sirk can make a disaster out of a stubbed toe or a misplaced word, while Bergman can relegate an individual's spiritual crisis to the background of a film or the fringe of the drama. But I've rambled on enough!
My response to Douglas Sirk's films are the opposite. I watched All That Heaven Allows a couple of days ago and reacted immediately. The film's themes hit perhaps a little too close to home, and my mood was changed for the rest of the day. Bergman's film deals with heavier themes and traumas than Sirk's but is so much quieter. Sirk can make a disaster out of a stubbed toe or a misplaced word, while Bergman can relegate an individual's spiritual crisis to the background of a film or the fringe of the drama. But I've rambled on enough!
Just watched The Tale of Zatoichi, which I was surprised to find was another noir, in both senses of the term. It seemed to be about the darkest film that I have ever seen in terms of its lighting, and very much in the spirit of film noir, even though they fight with swords. This was my first period yakuza movie. I was also surprised by the quality of the movie, since my expectations weren't that high, knowing that 25 movie sequels and 100 TV episodes followed. Looking forward to more of Ichi.
Wait. I'm watching this to qualify for the Hulu-only part of the checklist. Criterion hasn't put or announced it on disc yet have they?
#209
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
Here, I'll paste it again. See it on the left?
#210
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
Just FYI, Criterion has a sale on their website celebrating 75,000 fans on their FB page. 50% SRP until 1 pm ET.
#211
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DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
Hanging Center in first post is fixed.
Last night I watched Dr. No with the LaserDisc commentary track. Being a rip, it was aggravating to keep synced because every time the LD was flipped to another side, there was an edit. I had it spot-on for about half of the movie. Anyway, I didn't learn much new, though I can't say I recall ever hearing about Zena Marshall's fascinating life story. This isn't to say I haven't; my attention span and memory aren't what they used to be. If the offending material that incensed "Cubby" Broccoli was from this commentary, then it almost certainly was Terence Young relaying how he chased Harry Saltzman off the set of the movie for being a "pain in the ass" insisting on a line for Connery to say as he recognizes the stolen portrait of Wellington. Likely, though, I figure I'll find franker comments in the other two Bond commentary tracks and I'm looking forward to those.
Last night I watched Dr. No with the LaserDisc commentary track. Being a rip, it was aggravating to keep synced because every time the LD was flipped to another side, there was an edit. I had it spot-on for about half of the movie. Anyway, I didn't learn much new, though I can't say I recall ever hearing about Zena Marshall's fascinating life story. This isn't to say I haven't; my attention span and memory aren't what they used to be. If the offending material that incensed "Cubby" Broccoli was from this commentary, then it almost certainly was Terence Young relaying how he chased Harry Saltzman off the set of the movie for being a "pain in the ass" insisting on a line for Connery to say as he recognizes the stolen portrait of Wellington. Likely, though, I figure I'll find franker comments in the other two Bond commentary tracks and I'm looking forward to those.
#212
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I've always interpreted that as just the features, as there is a separate checklist item for watching every special feature. And on that checklist item, one should choose a Criterion that actually has at least a few special features, and not one of the many bare bones releases. Just my personal opinions. CG?
Incidentally, if you were watching an Eclipse Series, you would likely be watching the entire disc (most are barebones).
I'm thinking of putting in an order, but I'm not sure that I need more unwatched discs in my house right now. Especially considering that I have a whopping zero titles viewed so far. We'll see what happens in the next 66,000 seconds (that's the amount of time left for the sale).
#213
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
Watch M the other day for the first time, amazing film.
Today at work watched Q Planes and started X From Outer Space.
Only then did I notice the trend. Perhaps I'll watch F for Fake next and see if there are more.
Today at work watched Q Planes and started X From Outer Space.
Only then did I notice the trend. Perhaps I'll watch F for Fake next and see if there are more.
#214
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
#215
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
Watching my non-anamorphic DVD of Silence of the Lambs. Great film.
#216
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#217
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
We have 34 lists going in the list thread.
I know this isn't the horror challenge, but that's pretty good.
I know this isn't the horror challenge, but that's pretty good.
#218
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I will finish my viewing early this week, along with all the materials on the disc, and post my feelings on the list thread. It's amazing how much I remembered (Ha!) from the single viewing years ago.
#219
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
My one difficulty with this challenge is that I can't gobble up these films as I would with sci-fi and horror movies. I need to take time and reflect on the film I just watched.
#220
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
There's nothing wrong with reflecting a bit on the sci-fi and horror movies as well. Whatever the genre may be, you should be able to get something from a movie. I often think about how a movie follows, and how it varies from, its genre. Most movies aren't as deep as The Rules of the Game, but if I just slide from one movie to another without any reflection, they just become a blur for me.
#221
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I found Yukio Mishima's Patriotism to be morally reprehensible, despite its aesthetic beauty. It seems to be only of interest as a historical artifact, in light of the crimes which followed.
I haven't seen Mishima, so I don't know how much it may add to the experience of that movie. Many years ago I read (and liked) Mishima's The Sound of the Waves, but now I'm wondering if I was wrong.
I haven't seen Mishima, so I don't know how much it may add to the experience of that movie. Many years ago I read (and liked) Mishima's The Sound of the Waves, but now I'm wondering if I was wrong.
#222
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I watched Aki Kaurismaki's Proletariat Trilogy and the (non-Criterion) The Man Without a Past ,and continue to be impressed with the Eclipse releases. I enjoyed the deadpan humor and humanism of these movies, and am looking forward to the Leningrad Cowboys set.
I've seen 52 movies from 17 Eclipse sets and I've never been disappointed, even though it is rare for any of these movies to reach the level of the best of the main line Criterion releases.
I've seen 52 movies from 17 Eclipse sets and I've never been disappointed, even though it is rare for any of these movies to reach the level of the best of the main line Criterion releases.
#223
Thread Starter
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I just finished all the supplements on the 8 1/2 Blu-ray, which I picked up used at Half Price Books back in late Spring for, like, $12. I posted comments on each feature in my list thread post (link in signature). Suffice it to say there are quite a lot of gems to be found. In the interest of context, it's worth noting that this is the only Fellini film I've seen to date and only the second Italian feature (the other was Divorzio all'italiana [Divorce - Italian Style], which I watched for last year's challenge, so those who are familiar with Italian cinema and/or Fellini, or composer Nina Rota, may be less enthralled than me. I'm now exhausted and going to bed. Will get to the commentary track later.
#224
Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
With Criterion, it's much harder. I can only watch an Ozu, Kurosawa, or Mizoguchi when I have a lot of time and a full stomach, clear head, empty bladder and sufficient energy. I can't knock one off on a weeknight when I have to work the next day. I can only do those types of films on the weekend and only when I don't have a lot of chores or have not had a stressful work week--unlike this past weekend. I watched only two Criterion movies this weekend--one early on Saturday morning and the other early on Sunday, having started both the nights before--neither being particularly noteworthy. (Early morning is a good time to finish lesser films because my resistance is low and I can just lie in bed till it's finished.) I tried watching a Kurosawa on Saturday afternoon and after the first 40 minutes (of a 151-minute movie) I realized I was in no condition to give it the attention and patience it deserved. So I stopped. I tried watching AKIRA for the umpteenth time--and I'd read volume 1 of the manga a few days earlier--and even that was too much. So I put in a Japanese pop music concert instead. (If only Criterion distributed those!
) Sure, there are plenty of shorter, less-demanding films that are eligible, or ones I've seen plenty of times so I don't have to take notes, and build up my tally that way, but then it defeats the purpose of this challenge for me--which was to go through all the unseen Criterion box sets in my collection. So I'm having less fun with this one.
Last edited by Ash Ketchum; 09-12-11 at 10:05 AM.
#225
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread
I've seen 10 1/2 sets, my favorite by far is the William Klein one.
I just watched the Larisa Shepitko set for the challenge, and The Ascent is a true masterwork. I haven't been that taken by a film in a long time.



