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Old 09-25-11, 08:28 PM
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Re: ;)

Originally Posted by Trevor
I would, but impractical signatures aren't for me.
No worries; just change your "Spending" link to "Renting isn't for me." That gets it into your signature and it's practical! Win-win!
Old 09-26-11, 02:31 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
Onto the film. After watching it, I started it again to listen to Schrader’s commentary track as I was looking up info on the film on the web. He tells us more pertinent info about Mishima in the first five minutes of his commentary than he does in the entire two-hour film! If I hadn’t read some Mishima before seeing the movie, I would probably have sworn off ever reading him at all. The man comes off as severely delusional and acts like a buffoon in some scenes. The actor playing him, Ken Ogata, a tough guy type, doesn’t look like Mishima at all and doesn’t seem to have any of his charisma either. How would this man, as portrayed in the film, have become a popular public figure able to convince so many bright young men to follow him and his fanatical cause? We simply don’t see how. And when Ogata is “youthened” to play Mishima as a beauty- and body-obsessed young man in his 20s, the result is laughable. He was 47 at the time and looks OLD! (Schrader does touch on this in the commentary, although not quite allowing himself to admit that it simply didn’t work.)

The film uses an odd structure, with events on the last day of Mishima’s life, November 25, 1970, forming the basic underlying narrative, with black-and-white flashbacks to earlier stages of his life, done in a fairly realistic style, and color dramatizations of scenes from three of his novels done on extremely stylized and theatrical sets. This just didn’t work for me. I’d rather know more about him from a conventional narrative structure and then see other movies that are based on his works. We don’t get nearly enough info about him from this film. Nor do we get any kind of historical or social context for his extreme actions.
This is off the top of my head, but I recall from reviews at the time the movie was released that Mishima's widow only permitted Schrader to include information that couldn't be documented by depicting scenes from Mishima's novels (I assume that she threatened some form of libel suit, and I doubt that there are too many biographical films that don't take at least some liberties with actual events). I believe that the issue of Mishima's homosexuality or bisexuality is one of the key issues that can't be strictly documented.

Obviously, this restriction had to result in an unusual movie, although I suspect it probably makes it more interesting than it would otherwise (still haven't seen it-I'm holding out for the blu ray release, as it seems an obvious choice for Criterion blu ray, at least to me).

One interpretation of Mishima's actions that I have read is that he was extremely upset about Yasunari Kawabata's Nobel award, concluding that another Japanese writer was not likely to win anytime soon, thus thwarting his ambition. (Of course, Mishima might have tried to write a novel as good as Snow Country, instead of doing what he did). This seems silly as a significant motivating factor for his death, but not as silly as what Mishima did.

I'm not at all surprised that Mishima was able to find a small number of neo-fascist followers, especially in Japan. So far, I've only seen him as an actor in Afraid To Die and Patriotism, the latter of which I watching during this challenge. Patriotism obviously seems like a dress rehearsal for his death, and indicates to me a mental and moral collapse or bankruptcy, idealizing a meaningless gesture in support of an extreme fascist position. Afraid To Die, on the other hand, is a very good yakuza movie, with Mishima playing a realistic anti-hero. The difference between the two movies may be that Yasuzo Masumura was a great filmmaker whose movies were conscious of social realities, while Mishima obviously picked up technical skills during his involvement with movies, but may not have learned anything else during his movie career.

Last edited by ororama; 09-26-11 at 02:36 AM.
Old 09-26-11, 09:58 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

I appreciate the response, Ororama. Now you make me want to read Kawabata's "Snow Country." (I'm currently reading Mishima's "Spring Snow.") I read one of Kawabata's stories, "The Izu Dancer," earlier this year in conjunction with seeing the animated version for the Historical Challenge. (At the same time I read Mishima's "Sound of Waves" and watched the animated version of that.)

I finished listening to Schrader's commentary yesterday and it's packed with info, although he never addresses the replacement of Roy Scheider's narration with that of a nondescript midwestern accented voice. The other thing I wanted addressed was the lack of subtitles for the retorts to Mishima's speeches, first to the students and then to the soldiers. I want to know what the students and soldiers said in response.

I've been thinking about the film and Schrader's comments since the weekend and I have to say I'm glad Schrader made this film and not a Japanese filmmaker, who would have been compelled to kowtow to Mishima's widow and make a whitewashed version of Mishima's life. Schrader found clever ways to get around her restrictions. Also, I complained in my original post about Schrader's portrayal of Mishima as "delusional" and "buffoonish." Well, Schrader himself uses the word "buffoonery" to describe Mishima's antics and he describes him as a "functioning schizophrenic," so delusional is not far off. And certainly, the notion that he could rally the troops to support his vision of a revived Imperial Japan was certainly more delusional than visionary. So Schrader's take seems an honest one, even if I don't think we learn enough about Mishima from the film. We learn more about him and the historical/social context from Schrader's commentary.
Old 09-27-11, 06:11 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Just finished Törst [Thirst]. My thoughts:

The fourth title in the Early Bergman Eclipse box, Törst [Thirst] is the third in the collection directed by Bergman, but not written by him. It's hard to improve on the Criterion.com synopsis, so I'll let them establish the nature of Thirst:

A couple traveling across a war-ravaged Europe. A disintegrating marriage. A ballet dancer’s scarred past. Her friend’s psychological agony. Elliptically told in flashbacks and multiple narrative threads, Ingmar Bergman’s Thirst shows people enslaved to memory and united in isolation.
It is in this film that I think this collection begins to really take shape. Themes such as abortion and failed relationships take center stage here after being teased in the previous films, Crisis and Port of Call. There's even a dash of commentary on religious themes, as some clergy discuss the nature of marriage in one minor scene. The character stuff is captivating and I found myself more invested in these people than I had in those other two films. Particularly engaging is Eva Henning as Rut [Ruth in the English subtitles], whose flawed, narcissistic sexpot evoked Louise Brooks in Pandora's Box, though perhaps it was as much the bob haircut as her performance.

I was also fascinated by the unexpected attempted seduction of Viola (Birgit Tengoth) by ballerina Valborg (Mimmi Nelson), though this segment offers a microcosm of where the film falls flat for me in that by itself it's great stuff to watch--ripe atmosphere, fascinating characters, solid performances--but in the grand scheme of the film, it only leaves me with questions. For instance, we were not actually following either of the two women in the present day, so for what possible reason were we occasioned to flashback to their story? What bearing did it really have on anything?

Thirst works best as a collection of vignettes, most of which are genuinely engrossing. As a comprehensive film, though, it has too many loose plot threads and it feels disjointed and haphazard in its construction. Still, there's no question in my mind that we're seeing Bergman discover his film voice independent of his stage voice.
Old 09-29-11, 12:53 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Only two days left. I knocked off a few titles, but still have a ways to go from completing the checklist. I had high hops for a lot of things. Wanted to watch the Rohmer set, but only finished one so far. Wanted to watch all of Berlin Alexanderplatz, but I'm still stuck on the first episode.

Did manage to watch the four BBS titles I haven't seen. But now I can't justify buying the set since there are only two titles I really like.

The main reason I took this challenge was to seen some of cinema's greatest works. But another reason is to cut down on blind buys at the B&N sale. Criterion titles are always worth the expense, but only if you enjoy the film. And how do you know that until you see it?
Old 09-29-11, 02:35 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Dr. Mantle
Only two days left. I knocked off a few titles, but still have a ways to go from completing the checklist. I had high hops for a lot of things. Wanted to watch the Rohmer set, but only finished one so far. Wanted to watch all of Berlin Alexanderplatz, but I'm still stuck on the first episode.

Did manage to watch the four BBS titles I haven't seen. But now I can't justify buying the set since there are only two titles I really like.

The main reason I took this challenge was to seen some of cinema's greatest works. But another reason is to cut down on blind buys at the B&N sale. Criterion titles are always worth the expense, but only if you enjoy the film. And how do you know that until you see it?
I hear you. My ambitions and high hopes have been replaced by a mercenary-like review of the run-times of Criterion films and how many categories a particular film can cover I.just.might.make.it........

I'm glad that I was able to clear a few plastic cases from my unwatched pile (they are starting to crush each other) and I rediscovered my appreciation for Bergman.

Regarding Mishima, Ash brings up fair points, but I still love that film and I feel that Mishima as an artist was adequately represented by the very stylized versions of his novel presented. I read a couple of his novels way back in high school and the film rang true to me (except for the "real-life" inter-story parts about the day he committed suicide, which seemed a bit clunky and unnecessary to me). I absolutely adore the Philip Glass score, so certainly that colors my judgment about the film.
Old 09-29-11, 09:21 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Just finished Till glädje [To Joy], the fifth of the Early Bergman Eclipse box (and the fourth directed by him). I'm planning to finish off that set with Torment, which was actually the first film in that collection but it wasn't directed by Bergman and so I sort of deferred it to the end of my viewing. Anyway, here are my initial thoughts:

Concert violinist Stig (Stig Olin) is unhappy. It's his default emotional state, made no easier by the fact he's not a particularly good violinist. His relationship with Marta (Maj-Britt Nilsson) is recapped through a series of memories and flashbacks, and Marta herself seems to suffer from some modicum of impostor syndrome. Naturally, they're destined for anguish together.

I really connected with these two characters; my wife could recount numerous instances in which I have been patently immune to happiness. I was eager to see what twists and turns Stig and Marta would take, but unfortunately I feel like the well developed characters fell into a somewhat unimaginative story. In some ways, To Joy is a step forward in the Bergman filmography over Thirst but in other ways, it's a step backward in that the payoff here is lacking. It's not that it's a downer; Bergman films often end on a down note, or are emotionally ambiguous at best. It's that it feels obvious. It's the ending I would have expected after the first five minutes of the movie, and that disappoints me.
Old 09-29-11, 11:07 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Two days left, and I'm going to fall short of my goals (Modern Times BD, Rififi, The Lady Eve--even Something Wild is not available on Qwikster, though to mock me they show the Criterion cover).

Still glad I participated and got in a couple first-time viewings (Blow-Out, Straw Dogs).
Old 09-29-11, 12:08 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Well, I'm finished with the checklist, with the exception of the optional 2010s check. And since I already watched both Carlos and Life During Wartime in the last six months I probably won't be getting that check.

I've watched far more movies than I had originally planned, but I still didn't watch a lot of those (the Bergman trilogy, the Varda set, several Renoir and Kurosawa films, etc.) that were on my original viewing list. Still, I've watched a lot of great films (and some bad ones,) and found several new favorites (which I'll list after the challenge is over.)

I was planning on finishing the challenge by watching one or two horror movies tomorrow night - I checked out The Blob, Fiend without a Face, and Sisters from the library for that very purpose - but my work schedule changed, and with back-to-back shifts Friday evening and early Saturday morning that's probably not going to happen.
Old 09-30-11, 03:55 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

I finished the checklist, every category ticked, even though I had to double up in a few instances. I didn't get to watch every Criterion I own, but I did watch several films on Hulu and Netflix that were new to me.

Last edited by Gobear; 09-30-11 at 08:06 AM.
Old 09-30-11, 05:28 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

As I expected, the diminished selection of Criterion titles to stream from Netflix crippled me this year. The HuluPlus trial helped, but having to stream only on my laptop made it far less convenient or enjoyable for me to watch movies. Maybe by next year either they'll have expanded their availability through TV-ready devices or I'll have acquired one. Going into this last day, my plan is to stream Torment to kill off the Early Bergman Eclipse box set and then we'll see. We may pick a horror movie of some kind for late tonight to segue into the Horror Challenge; it's my wife's favorite challenge of the year and she's pretty eager to begin.
Old 09-30-11, 07:16 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Finished the checklist, in my usual uber way. Had fun playing the alphabet game, trying to find a Criterion that had each single letter in it's title. If I had more time this month and was a better researcher, I bet I could have filled all 26.

Watched way more than I planned to, or should have, but really enjoyed the films. Perhaps later this weekend I'll actually do one of those recap posts that many of you do, listing my favorite and least favorite viewings of the month.

Today, I hope to watch one BD at work, and then maybe totally screw around with my sleep schedule and wake back up at 0 dark thirty to watch House and/or another Criterion horror film.
Old 09-30-11, 09:05 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Success! After a couple years of sitting on my shelf, I watched Bergman's Scenes from a Marriage. This was my third attempt; the first two times I watched the first two episodes and then got too depressed to continue. It is amazing how nuanced the characters are and how fully their relationship is explored. I mentioned earlier this month that Bergman's films always take me a few days/weeks of contemplation before I can really organize my thoughts. However, at the moment I am just happy that I finally watched the whole thing and wishing I had years ago.
Old 09-30-11, 11:12 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

I guess I'm the only guy that's gotten tired of Bergman. I was into his stuff a few years ago and watched a lot but now it's really hit or miss. I've also gotten a wee bit tired of seeing the same redhead in almost every film.

I started one of the high points of the challenge for me last night, Tunes of Glory. I'm halfway through it but loving it so far. I'm going to finish it up today and then after doing some yard work under the hot sun, I get a small break before I dig into horror.

Not only does the horror challenge start but the hot weather ends today. Yesterday it was 94 and then starting tomorrow we're going to start getting inches of rain, a bunch of wind and by Tuesday the high isn't even supposed to hit 60. I just need to mow the yard today before it gets crazy.
Old 09-30-11, 11:21 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
I guess I'm the only guy that's gotten tired of Bergman. I was into his stuff a few years ago and watched a lot but now it's really hit or miss. I've also gotten a wee bit tired of seeing the same redhead in almost every film.
I can only speak for myself, but I just started making my way through his filmography with last year's Criterion Challenge. To date, I've seen 10 or 11 of his films so I've hardly had time for burnout. Some of it hasn't really done a lot for me (the Early Bergman collection, for instance, or All These Women), but the stuff I've liked, I have really liked.

I actually like seeing recurring actors in his movies. It creates a familiarity that I find interesting. Don't see that kind of continuity these days, though I suppose Christopher Nolan is building his own stable of recurring actors. I wouldn't want every movie to have that kind of "clique" feel to it, but when it does come around, I rather enjoy it as a sort of cinematic equivalent to a stage troupe. (Plus, I have yet to see a leading lady in a Bergman movie I didn't want to see again!)
Old 10-01-11, 01:28 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

It's good to see that a few people finished the checklist this year. I knew that I wasn't going to get through very many this year (and I didn't), but I did get two new viewings in (Mala Noche and Picnic at Hanging Rock). Honestly, I'm glad that I have some checks off my Criterion list for those titles, but I don't have a desire to revisit either one.

As for my two repeat titles, both Easy Rider and Rashomon were even better than I remembered. This year, I watched/read/etc. all of the content associated with Rashomon and it was good with a strong commentary that had a balance of analysis and history of the film. Easy Rider I hadn't seen in around 10 years and it still holds up; great soundtrack, great bold filmmaking.

I could say that I wished I got through more, but I had no illusions that I would power through a long list of titles this month.

I've enjoyed reading reactions to the films and I'm glad that most of you have included brief descriptions of your experiences.
Old 10-01-11, 07:13 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

CG,

Thanks for hosting a great month of movies! I really enjoyed the revamped checklist, and found that it guided most of my choices throughout the month.

I got in about 20-25 new-to-me films this month, and enjoyed each one of them. The Ascent (1977) moved me the most, and may end up on my top 20 list.

Finally watched several films that have been on my to-see list for years, like Cronos and My Dinner With Andre.

I wish I had written mini-reviews and comments throughout the month. I meant to go back and write more each time I put placeholders in, but the month was so busy with wedding planning that my brain is largely mush all of the time. I love these films as I view them, but I couldn't tell you anything about any of them the next day.
Old 10-01-11, 07:26 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Looking Back
I knew that Netflix's failure to keep The Criterion Collection in their streaming library was going to be a hindrance, and I was right. I relied on it heavily last year; sixteen of my twenty seven entries last year were streamed. This year, I managed a paltry fourteen entries total. The HuluPlus trial was nice, but as I predicted, not being able to conveniently stream directly to my TV was a major minus. Maybe by next September I'll have a Roku or I'll be able to stream via the Wii like I can with Netflix. I came within a hair of completing the checklist last year; this year I wasn't even close. That's enough about what didn't occur for me this year. Here's what I did manage to see.

My Continued Love Affair with Ingmar Bergman
Of the remaining eleven entries, six were from the filmography of Ingmar Bergman. I saw my first Bergman movies last year and fell in love, so I went back to the well this year. The four selections from the Early Bergman box that I streamed via Hulu were "average" for me, but collectively I enjoyed them as I was able to see early evidence of the kinds of character-driven stories that he would later master, as well as his early flirtation with some of the themes that are better explored in later works. The two later Bergmans I saw were Ansiktet [The Magician], which I loved and would place on par with the Ingmar Bergman: Four Masterworks collection whose contents I streamed last year. Small wonder; it was made during the same stretch of his career as those (released between Smultronstället [Wild Strawberries] and Jungfrukällan [The Virgin Spring]). It shows. The remaining Bergman of my 2011 challenge was För att inte tala om alla dessa kvinnor [All These Women]. I found it amusing, but on the whole a bit subpar. Maybe because it was in color; maybe because I'd already seen Sommarnattens leende [Smiles of a Summer Night], a more satisfying ensemble sex comedy from his filmography.

I Wasn't Entirely Monogamous
My challenge began with a pair of atmospheric selections (Dazed and Confused and The Naked City). I enjoyed the settings quite a lot, but the stories were rather "meh" and little else stood out. The same can be said of Premiers Désirs [First Desires], an erotic coming-of-age story set on a Mediterranean island that I streamed from the HuluPlus exclusive digital Criterion catalog. They all three established a specific setting--in large part by shooting on location--but while I enjoyed going there, I found little of actual interest in any of the three.

That leaves me with L'heure d'été [Summer Hours], a 2008 French film that explores the nature of inheritance. I found its thesis specific and focused; perhaps a shade too much, as the narrative never really expanded to allow us much in the way of insight into the characters. Ultimately, though, I think this was a wise storytelling choice; just about every scene is specifically connected to the principle theme of how the middle aged children react when their matriarch dies. Reaction to this generated an interesting side discussion, and it became an instant favorite of mine.

Re-visitations
I got hold of the recalled LaserDisc commentary tracks for the first three Bond movies and I watched the first two with the commentaries synced from my iPod (synced as well as I could manage; they were spliced from the various disc sides, so every ~30 minutes I had to play the pause-and-catch-up game). I learned a few nuggets along the way, and only an off-topic homophobic anecdote from Terence Young in From Russia with Love seemed objectionable to me. Peter Hunt's enthusiastic dissection of editing was a treat and I'd highly recommend for anyone interested in the craft of filmmaking to give these commentaries a listen just for his remarks.

8 1/2
Aside from Bergman, my 2011 challenge was dominated by Federico Fellini's Otto e mezzo [8 1/2], which I first saw in February for the Academy Awards Challenge. I processed it intellectually then, admiring it but not quite falling in love with it. Over the summer, I snagged the Blu-ray at Half Price Books for $12.00, though, so I gorged on its content. The more I learned of it, the more powerfully I felt the film resonate with me. It caught me at just the right time. I wrote about depression for my blog earlier this year, and during this challenge, Jeri Ryan was kind enough to tweet a link to it. I have been overwhelmed by the response I've had to that post, and I was able to greatly empathize with Guido, the director who must make something, but he has no idea what and is surrounded by myriad people looking to him for answers of some kind. Guido wants to have answers, but simply doesn't. He searches through every part of life, from his past to his fantasies, in an effort to find a direction for himself and something from which he can build. That resonated powerfully with me during this past month.
Old 10-01-11, 07:46 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Can’t believe it’s October already. I managed to squeeze in one last film last night to up my total to 25. It was a Kurosawa, the shortest one I could find—THE MEN WHO TREAD ON THE TIGER’S TAIL, only 59 min. Even then, it was hard to stay awake through it. Beautiful filmmaking, but slow and stately, not the right thing for a Friday night after a long week of work and physical therapy. I’d tried a Kurosawa earlier in the challenge, THE BAD SLEEP WELL—a pretty long film--and I couldn’t get through it, despite it being a Saturday afternoon, because my energy level was too low. You have to see Kurosawa, and Ozu, for that matter, when you have the time and energy. It’s a disservice to the films otherwise. But I had to get a Kurosawa in for this challenge.

This was a tough one for me. Between working full time and going to physical therapy for leg pain, I didn’t have the time or energy to get through the ones I wanted to get through. I mean, MISHIMA took up most of last weekend, between watching the film, listening to the audio commentary, and writing about it. It was the only entry I could finish last Saturday-Sunday. I only managed one Kurosawa and one Ozu, despite having at least a dozen more by each that were eligible.

On my unwatched pile were Kobayashi’s THE HUMAN CONDITION trilogy, Kinoshita’s TWENTY-FOUR EYES, Ichikawa’s THE MAKIOKA SISTERS, Ophuls’ LOLA MONTES, Renoir’s THE RIVER, the Koreyoshi Kurahara box set, the Silent Naruse box set, plus: CHILDREN OF PARADISE, PALE FLOWER, HENRY V, SOLARIS, MERRY CHRISTMAS MR. LAWRENCE, COUP DE TORCHON, + three from Melville: LE DOULOS, BOB LE FLAMBEUR and ARMY OF SHADOWS. Plus a lot of unwatched Zatoichi.

I did complete the Nikkatsu Noir box set and enjoyed it so much that it set me off on a crime film kick that led to NIGHT AND THE CITY, THE STREET WITH NO NAME (not eligible, but I watched it anyway), THE KILLING, KISS ME DEADLY, and THE FRIENDS OF EDDIE COYLE. In the Nikkatsu set, I particularly enjoyed I AM WAITING and CRUEL GUN STORY. RUSTY KNIFE and A COLT IS MY PASSPORT were both pretty good as well, although I didn’t warm up to TAKE AM AT THE POLICE VAN—I’m not a fan of Seijun Suzuki.

The challenges that are the most fun for me are the ones where I just plunge in and watch a variety of things, pulling unwatched tapes and discs out of my collection and just plowing through them. Last year, it was the August Animation Challenge, my first challenge, and this year it was the TV on DVD Challenge in January and the B-movie Challenge in April. I just went on journeys and tangents and discovered lots of great stuff. And with TV shows and cartoons, you can watch shorts and TV eps. when the energy is low, and with B-movies, a lot of them are pretty short, including B-westerns that are just under an hour, making it easier to get a lot of stuff watched. We’ll see how I do on the Horror Challenge.

25 films total
14 first-time viewings
11 American films
11 Japanese films
2 French
1 English
Old 10-01-11, 08:07 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

^ Ash, I'm quite jealous that you were able to watch 25 films and have only two of them be French. I didn't think that was statistically possible.
Old 10-01-11, 12:23 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Trevor
^ Ash, I'm quite jealous that you were able to watch 25 films and have only two of them be French. I didn't think that was statistically possible.
Well, I included F FOR FAKE as French, even though the producing countries listed on IMDB are France, Germany, and Iran, because the title given on IMDB is in French, "Verites et Mensonges."

The other French film I saw was Ophuls' LE PLAISIR, which is sooooo French that you could pass a course in French Studies just by watching it.

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