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2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

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Old 09-12-11 | 01:20 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

I know you weren't asking me, but I'd highly recommend the Raymond Bernard set. Wooden Crosses is one of the best anti-war films ever, in my opinion. You've already discovered the wonderful Shepitko set (I agree that The Ascent is fantastic.) The two Ozu sets both contain several masterpieces - I haven't watched all the films in the "Late Ozu" set yet but I'd especially recommend the Tokyo Twilight and The End of Summer, (as well as I Was Born, but... from the silent set.) The Mizoguchi set Street of Shame being my favorite,) the Shimizu set, and the silent Naruse set all also contain some really great films.

Really, almost all of the sets are worth exploring and contain at least one or two gems, in my opinion.

A few of the Eclipse sets seem to only exist because Janus owned the rights to a bunch of minor films from a great director (see: the Bergman set, with the exception of "Torment"), and they expected it to sell based on the director's name alone - but others have been a revelation, giving exposure to some truly great directors (and lesser known films from famous directors) that have been unfairly overlooked. Stuff like the Bernard set and the Shimizu set reminds us of how many truly great filmmakers have fallen into obscurity for no good reason at all.

Last edited by Sondheim; 09-12-11 at 01:31 PM.
Old 09-12-11 | 03:37 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by ororama
I found Yukio Mishima's Patriotism to be morally reprehensible, despite its aesthetic beauty. It seems to be only of interest as a historical artifact, in light of the crimes which followed.

I haven't seen Mishima, so I don't know how much it may add to the experience of that movie. Many years ago I read (and liked) Mishima's The Sound of the Waves, but now I'm wondering if I was wrong.
Mishima is fantastic, especially if you are familiar with the novels upon which most of the film is based. The Philip Glass soundtrack is outstanding, as well.
Old 09-12-11 | 03:45 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Criterion is definitely not suited to gorging. I have very little time to sit down and watch (Blow-Out was an exception) so I've been keeping the chains moving by watching stuff I'm familiar with, including The Rock and The Silence of the Lambs.

I know the horror challenge will always have more discussion, but Criterion is even getting dwarfed by the "OMGcantwait" horror posts. Maybe we need to start a discussion about best nudity in Criterion films--except that a lot of Criterion nudity is not the kind we necessarily want to watch.
Old 09-12-11 | 07:34 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

The problem I always see is that it's the same groups of films that get talked about.

Today I finished The Element of Crime, which I liked the noir aspects but at the same time it did it poorly. Now I'm planning on doing The Harder They Come or Fishing with John, if my copy comes through shortly.

I really hope I can get to General Idi Amin Dada but I think it's too far down on my list to get to by the end of the month unless I'm lucky.
Old 09-12-11 | 09:44 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by g.schweet
Care to share your favorites?
I've seen 10 1/2 sets, my favorite by far is the William Klein one.
I just watched the Larisa Shepitko set for the challenge, and The Ascent is a true masterwork. I haven't been that taken by a film in a long time.
I pretty much agree with Sondheim's post immediately following yours. Mizoguchi's Fallen Women is probably my favorite set, and I think Street of Shame and Osaka Elegy are among his best movies. I am amazed that I never heard of Larisa Shepitko, Raymond Bernard (haven't got to Les Miserables yet because of its length) and Hiroshi Shimizu before their Eclipse sets were released. I'm not an Ozu fan, but enjoyed Silent Ozu, which deals with struggling families during the depression. I love Naruse, so Silent Naruse is the set that I was waiting for from the time that the Eclipse series was first announced.

I haven't seen The Delirious Fictions of William Klein yet, but if Criterion's description is accurate, you would probably enjoy Dusan Makavejev-Free Radical and Aki Kaurismaki's Proletariat Trilogy. Makavejev's Man Is Not a Bird seems like something that could have been made in Poland at the time, subtly critiquing the gap between the ideals and reality of the system, but each subsequent film is more idiosyncratic. Innocence Unprotected is a very unusual combination of documentary and fiction film. Love Affair, or the Case of the Missing Switchboard Operator may be the best movie in the set, but it's close between it and Man Is Not a Bird.

I've just finished the Proletariat Trilogy, so it hasn't completely sunk in, but I was really impressed. Criterion's description of the movies as deadpan comedies is accurate in a way, but at most you would probably smile. Kaurasmaki shows the grim circumstances of working class people who are barely scraping by, but you always have the sense that they won't give up and that he is on their side, although he resists the temptation of a Hollywood happy ending.
Old 09-12-11 | 09:52 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by davidh777
I know the horror challenge will always have more discussion, but Criterion is even getting dwarfed by the "OMGcantwait" horror posts. Maybe we need to start a discussion about best nudity in Criterion films--except that a lot of Criterion nudity is not the kind we necessarily want to watch.
Of course, most of the horror posts so far are simply "can't wait" or "what are the rules again?" from each participant.

Funniest Criterion nudity could be an interesting discussion, but I don't think Closely Watched Trains could possibly be beat in that category, although Dusan Makavejev keeps trying.
Old 09-12-11 | 10:26 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by ororama
I've just finished the Proletariat Trilogy, so it hasn't completely sunk in, but I was really impressed. Criterion's description of the movies as deadpan comedies is accurate in a way, but at most you would probably smile. Kaurasmaki shows the grim circumstances of working class people who are barely scraping by, but you always have the sense that they won't give up and that he is on their side, although he resists the temptation of a Hollywood happy ending.
I'm working through Proletariat Trilogy and found them to be interesting but very bleak with an amazing grittiness. Match Factory Girl was really depressing and the ending seemed a little hard to believe. I am curious to see more of Kaurasmaki's stuff because he's got a real talent for being atmospehric and I know Criterion was teasing about future releases.
Old 09-12-11 | 11:33 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Finally got a viewing in: Rashomon. It's a rewatch, but a good one and it really got the checks rolling on the checklist. Hopefully, I can get another one in sometime this week.
Old 09-12-11 | 11:33 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

I was going to post a list of my favorite films from the eclipses I've seen in the earlier post, and it included Love Affair, or the Case of the Missing Switchboard Operator, Wooden Crosses, and Mr. Thank You. I guess we have similar tastes .
Old 09-13-11 | 02:36 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
The problem I always see is that it's the same groups of films that get talked about.
This makes sense
Old 09-13-11 | 03:08 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Someone has Good Burger on their list
Old 09-13-11 | 10:43 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Trevor
Great comments. I wish I could convey my thoughts on films but feel like the extent of my "review skills" are "i loved/liked/hated it."
Thanks for the kind words!

A friend stayed with me over the weekend, and we settled in on Saturday and watched an odd double feature: Monsoon Wedding and Insignificance. Both were blu-rays I bought during the last B&N sale and had yet to watch. We started with Mira Nair's film since I made chicken curry for dinner. I was instantly drawn into the film. It is so vivid, and I love sprawling narratives and the documentary feel that Nair brings to her film. Of course, I drew comparisons with Rachel Getting Married (another film that I loved). I think the main differences for me were in tone. Monsoon is bright and colorful, yet the underlying angst and secrets are often underplayed. On the other hand, Rachel uses has that placid, subdued New England thing going on, but the emotion and family secrets are right there on the surface.

Insignificance was brilliantly funny - a must see film for me. I connected with the themes that it explored. I love the idea of fame, and seeing these pop culture celebrities interact was truly something!

Originally Posted by g.schweet
Care to share your favorites?
I've seen 10 1/2 sets, my favorite by far is the William Klein one.
That is so interesting to me. I absolutely loved Who Are You, Polly Maggoo? but did not care for the other two films in the set. I would love to hear your thoughts on The Model Couple and Mr. Freedom. After both, I felt that perhaps I did not understand them.

My favorite Eclipse set is probably #3: Late Ozu. I love his films very much. They are so precise and mannered. The characters are always in such disarray despite their surroundings.
Old 09-14-11 | 12:28 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

My favorite Eclipse set is the Carlos Saura Flamenco Trilogy, which I was lucky enough to acquire during a B&N sale right before it went OOP. It has inspired
me to seek out more of Saura's dance films.
Old 09-14-11 | 12:35 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
The problem I always see is that it's the same groups of films that get talked about.
Originally Posted by davidh777
This makes sense
But it doesn't have to be that way. I'm encouraged that some discussion has begun about the Eclipse sets, and even more encouraged that several people here are exploring these movies. The fans of Late Spring and Sansho the Bailiff who have seen their preferred movie fifty times or more and are horrified by the heresy of the infidels who can't recognize its glory tend to get boring pretty quickly. I like to watch mostly new things.

I just looked quickly through the lists, and they are pretty eclectic. That makes discussion more difficult, of course, since almost everyone is watching different movies. But you can always try writing a little something, in the hope that someone else will respond concerning a movie that they saw a while back, or will take a chance on something new.
Old 09-14-11 | 01:07 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Mister Peepers
Someone has Good Burger on their list
i put that the first day i update SOOOOOOOOOo thought someone would said something alot sooner!...sadly i did dvr this months ago to finally watch for this challenge as a joke.
Old 09-14-11 | 01:32 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by ororama
But it doesn't have to be that way. I'm encouraged that some discussion has begun about the Eclipse sets, and even more encouraged that several people here are exploring these movies. The fans of Late Spring and Sansho the Bailiff who have seen their preferred movie fifty times or more and are horrified by the heresy of the infidels who can't recognize its glory tend to get boring pretty quickly. I like to watch mostly new things.

I just looked quickly through the lists, and they are pretty eclectic. That makes discussion more difficult, of course, since almost everyone is watching different movies. But you can always try writing a little something, in the hope that someone else will respond concerning a movie that they saw a while back, or will take a chance on something new.
Sansho is on my "want to watch but not high enough on the list to make time for during this challenge" list.

I like the look of the Eclipse sets, but I have so many higher priorities (both challenge and not) than these deeper collections of more obscure films. I actually don't know if I own any, though a few would be interesting like Kurosawa, Fuller, and Lubitsch.

Actually I guess I know I own at least one, the Louis Malle documentaries. Don't remember why exactly I picked this one up.
Old 09-14-11 | 04:31 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

On account of my stupid guts waking me up a couple hours ago, I decided to finally stream something from Hulu as part of my free trial month. I went with För att inte tala om alla dessa kvinnor [All These Women]. My reaction from my list thread follows:

My sixth Ingmar Bergman film, and the first of this year's challenge, I have to say I was a bit disappointed by this sex farce. Maybe it's the fact it was produced in color, maybe it's the slapstick and frequent winks through the fourth wall. It doesn't feel as clever as, say, Smiles of a Summer Night.

The premise is that a music critic, Cornelius (Jarl Kulle) has come to visit a famous cellist whose biography he is writing. Distractions and obstacles abound for the writer as he discovers that the grand estate includes a harem of devoted mistresses. Kulle does a fine Peter Sellers act throughout, and strikes the right tone for the film (I confess, I kept thinking they ought to remake this with Paul Reubens in his role), and the harem includes Bergman regulars Bibi Andersson, Harriet Andersson and Gertrud Fridh so the cast is certainly talented. The film's 76 minute run time is brief enough, but even that felt a bit overlong to me.

Still, with my vitamin D deficiency out of sorts at the present, it was nice to find something lightweight enough that I was able to follow along easily. Those looking for a reprieve from the more taxing, highbrow works of art in the Criterion Collection ought to consider taking the time to flake out with this one.
Old 09-14-11 | 10:35 AM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

I watched The Naked City on Netflix a few days ago. Because it was shot entirely on the streets of New York, when the film came to a recognizable spot, I would hit Pause and check out the same spot on Google Maps Street View. Although I was saddened to see some buildings replaced by parking lots and basketball courts, I was fascinated by finding old brownstones with the same moldings and window frames, albeit with fancy wine bars at ground level in 2011 instead of Jewish delis and corner stores in 1947.
Old 09-14-11 | 12:22 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by davidh777
Sansho is on my "want to watch but not high enough on the list to make time for during this challenge" list.
Sansho is a really wonderful film, though I haven't yet watched it fifty times (only twice, in fact.) My friend loves it even more than me, considering it one of his all-time favorite films.

Though, if anyone does get around to it during the challenge, I promise not to be "horrified" if they don't like it.
Old 09-14-11 | 12:49 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by davidh777
I like the look of the Eclipse sets, but I have so many higher priorities (both challenge and not) than these deeper collections of more obscure films. I actually don't know if I own any, though a few would be interesting like Kurosawa, Fuller, and Lubitsch.
I ended up really enjoying the Lubitsch set, even though I typically don't like musicals. Since these are pre-code films, there is a perverse wit and a frankness about sex that makes these films refreshingly different. They are very funny, as well, and I ended up breezing through the set in one weekend.
Old 09-14-11 | 01:13 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Sondheim
Sansho is a really wonderful film, though I haven't yet watched it fifty times (only twice, in fact.) My friend loves it even more than me, considering it one of his all-time favorite films.

Though, if anyone does get around to it during the challenge, I promise not to be "horrified" if they don't like it.
For the August Animation Challenge, I watched ANJU TO ZUSHIOMARU (1961) and its English-dubbed version, THE LITTLEST WARRIOR, based on the same source material as "Sansho the Bailiff."

Here's a shot from it, with mean old Sansho on the right:
IMG_7369

Truth to tell, I like the animated version better.

Last edited by Ash Ketchum; 09-14-11 at 02:23 PM.
Old 09-14-11 | 01:42 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Sondheim
Sansho is a really wonderful film, though I haven't yet watched it fifty times (only twice, in fact.) My friend loves it even more than me, considering it one of his all-time favorite films.

Though, if anyone does get around to it during the challenge, I promise not to be "horrified" if they don't like it.
I've heard so many good things about it that I'm really intrigued. Just a matter of finding the time to crack my shrink and watch.

Originally Posted by ResIpsa
I ended up really enjoying the Lubitsch set, even though I typically don't like musicals. Since these are pre-code films, there is a perverse wit and a frankness about sex that makes these films refreshingly different. They are very funny, as well, and I ended up breezing through the set in one weekend.
I do like musicals, but your pre-code description makes me feel less schizophrenic for calling out Fuller and Lubitsch in the same thought.
Old 09-14-11 | 01:59 PM
  #248  
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Finished Fishing with John last night. It was ok and had some funny moments but you're still watching fishing. Then I started Ivan the Terrible Part II, which is good so far. I have to admit that Hulu Plus is nice for this challenge but I'm not sure how much longer I'd keep it once I'm done with Criterion. Everything isn't that great.
Old 09-14-11 | 02:32 PM
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Gobear
I watched The Naked City on Netflix a few days ago. Because it was shot entirely on the streets of New York, when the film came to a recognizable spot, I would hit Pause and check out the same spot on Google Maps Street View. Although I was saddened to see some buildings replaced by parking lots and basketball courts, I was fascinated by finding old brownstones with the same moldings and window frames, albeit with fancy wine bars at ground level in 2011 instead of Jewish delis and corner stores in 1947.
I was doing something like this live the other night (Monday). I was with young friends in Times Square shooting a video message for someone in Japan and, off-camera, I suddenly started pointing to everything and relating personal history in the area, telling them what movie theaters had once been there and what movies I'd seen at them and where the giant billboards were for JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS and THE GREAT ESCAPE on my first visit to the area as a kid and then the one over the old Astor Theater four years later which featured three massive illustrations from YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, the James Bond film that began my interest in Japanese culture when I was an adolescent.
Old 09-14-11 | 03:31 PM
  #250  
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Re: 2011 The Criterion Collection - Challenge #3 Discussion Thread

Speaking of New York City films, I watched Sweet Smell of Success the other night. James Wong Howe's photography is majestic and comes across beautifully on the Blu-Ray. One of the definitive New York films.

Last edited by Greg MacGuffin; 09-14-11 at 07:35 PM.


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