KaBluie

I don't remember if this was settled or not, but I'd like to comment on conversion - this IS a TV challenge so I don't think we should do it. It's stupid and annoying in the various movie challenges where we only watch a limited amount of TV shows anyway and this is going to be all (or mostly) TV shows.

kstublen

I think the criteria is that if the show itself spawned the movies as a continuation of the series, then it's okay. A movie that spawned a television show probably shouldn't count because the television show is the continuation.

Some examples of acceptable movies would be...

Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm (follows Batman: The Animated Series)
The Simpsons Movie (follows/within The Simpsons)
Sex And The City: The Movie (follows Sex And The City)

Some examples of unacceptable movies would be...

Ghostbusters (precedes The Real Ghostbusters)
Star Wars (precedes Star Wars: The Clone Wars)
The Terminator (precedes Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles)

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I don't see anything inconsistent about that, because movies like Ghostbusters, Star Wars, and The Terminator existed independently of the television shows for quite some time. The movies that continue the storylines of Batman, The Simpsons, and Sex And The City are movies, but they're still a part of the television show, when you really think about it.

But how you do these challenges is really up to you, so it probably doesn't really matter.

You might find watching television shows on DVD during other challenges "stupid or annoying" but some of us around here watch a great deal of TV on DVD, myself included. In the past month alone I've watched all Four Volumes of Futurama, Parks And Recreation: Season Two, another Season of I Dream Of Jeannie, and Better Off Ted: Season One. I've watched movies too, but not nearly as many. So for people like me, I imagine this is a welcome challenge.

Travis McClain

I almost added it, but thought that inclusion by omission was the way to go. That is, by not adding it as its own check point, participants are free to watch as much foreign TV as interests them for any of the other check points. If you want the original Pokemon for the 90s and Fawlty Towers for your mini-series, go for it.

Even though the vote favored a disc only restriction and it made me a hypocrite, I came to believe that a challenge built around celebrating the TV medium should include various formats. So if you want to watch the aforementioned Pokemon on VHS and stream Fawlty Towers from Netflix, have at it.

As we're not concerning ourselves with view counts, you're free to convert or not convert. At least for this first go-round, we're playing this challenge fairly loose; more like the Criterion Challenge where you're encouraged to delve into bonus materials, commentaries, etc. and the emphasis isn't on hitting 100 movies viewed. So if you want to count each episode of Fawlty Towers as an entry, that's fine. If you want to count the entire show as a singular entry, that too is fine.

One note: given this latitude, I'm really hoping to be wowed by some of your list posts and they way they're organized, presented, etc.

The problem is that each of these shows is presented as part of the continuity established in the movies. The Real Ghostbusters, for instance, referenced events and characters from the two movies. I think a stronger case for exclusion would be M*A*S*H (you can argue that the show was based upon the novel upon which the movie was also based) or Alice's Diner, or that moonshiner movie that spawned The Dukes of Hazzard.

Ultimately, I really thought that suggesting the Star Wars movies would be eligible for this challenge was out and out loophole lawyerin' and in case my tone wasn't clear before, it irked me. I can't find a way of excluding them that holds up for other such movies/series, so I allowed them with the caveat that no one just watch those movies, that they at least trouble themselves to watch the actual TV shows.

The remark to which this was directed referred specifically to the idea of converting 2 hours of TV to 1 movie for list-making purposes, so I think your response was off-target. The issue wasn't with watching TV content on DVD; it was with the counting.

KaBluie

Read my post again. I never said watching television shows on DVD during other challenges was stupid or annoying. I said conversion was. There's no reason you should have to watch 4 episodes of The Twilight Zone for it to count as 1 entry. 1 episode should count as 1, 4 episodes should count as 4.
During the SciFi Challenge I watched all of Red Dwarf (twice because every episode had commentaries) and I enjoyed it quite a bit, the stupid & annoying part was counting 4 episodes as 1 entry.

kstublen

Ah, I missed the word conversion. No wonder your post didn't make much sense to me. Thanks for the clarification!

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I'm actually burning through episodes of The Dick Van Dyke show right now, even though this challenge is coming up. I've got so many TV Shows on DVD, I'll have plenty to watch come January.

Would the Looney Tunes: Golden Collections count? My gut tells me no since most all of them are theatrical shorts. On second thought, I might save my remaining Dick Van Dyke Show discs and start watching Looney Tunes instead.

Travis McClain

As I recall, those shorts were often recycled for the various Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies shows and that's how most people came to see them so I think they'd be fine.

But then, I clarified the dispute over conversion two posts previously and yet the two of you carried on anyway. Maybe this post will also be ignored. In case it's not, I'm being held hostage in a Holiday Inn by three Elvis impersonators. I'd appreciate it if someone would alert the authorities.

kstublen

Cool. Might leave Looney Tunes for the New Year then.

I saw your post about conversion too, lol. I was going to say "Thanks for the clarification guys" but left out the last word.

Travis McClain

Look for the list thread to go active sometime on New Year's Eve. Given how little constructive feedback we've had concerning a checklist, I'm gonna cop out and let you make your own. If you want to challenge yourself to content from every decade, go for it; if you want to see every episode ever made in which Richard Belzer appears as John Munch, great. If you just want to open the Mad Men season sets you ordered from Amazon recently, fine.

Incidentally, I can tell you that Rich has come up with quite a host of prizes for challenge participants to win. I'll reveal those when the list thread goes live.

kstublen

I'm really looking forward to this one. I got a lot of shows during Black Friday sales and so I have plenty to watch for the challenge. Already have a list formatted and ready to go.

Fist of Doom

I agree with the decision of leaving out a checklist. This challenge doesn't really lend itself to one. I'm guessing most participants will do marathons of one or two shows.

Woohoo!

lisadoris

I have my list of titles all set to go. It should be fun.

Ash Ketchum

I like the idea of a checklist and spent a couple of afternoons over the weekend going through my collection to dig out stuff that would complete it. Now it looks like a lot of wasted effort. It doesn't seem like this "challenge" offers much incentive for participants to leave their comfort zones.

So what's the "challenge" involved? Who wins? People who watch more than anyone else? People who don't work full-time sure have an advantage there.
How do we count what we watch? Does every TV episode count as 1? What about a miniseries? Do we count each hour as 1? Or the whole thing as 1?

Can we get some clarification?

Thanks.

Travis McClain

First, let me thank you for the time you devoted to checklist ideas. Unfortunately, you were really the only participant who gave this any significant consideration. That's what led me to scrap the idea. In fact, when I later diluted it and asked for feedback it was largely ignored. I don't want you to think that you operated in a vacuum in which no one noticed your work; as host, I sincerely do thank you for all the time you spent on your suggestions.

As for whether participants expose themselves to content outside their comfort zones, ultimately that's not our right as participants to expect of one another. It is encouraged, of course, but how many Trekkies simply gorge on Next Generation episodes for the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Challenge? I'm not the Try Something New Police.

The idea of having to jump around from season to season, or series to series, without having the time to settle in and watch a complete season or two, is what made it apparent that diversity really isn't part of the appeal of this challenge for most.

This challenge is not about you competing with one another for a higher view count. It is about you watching as much content as you care to work into the month of January. I'm concerned about your emphasis on "winning," as though there's a trophy waiting to be engraved on 1 February. There isn't. This nature of this challenge is much more akin to the Criterion Challenge, where the idea is to watch content and actually discuss it, not just race to 100 titles viewed.

There are prizes a-plenty, but not one of them will be awarded based upon view count so it's absolutely irrelevant to anyone how many shows another participant views. Prizes will primarily be awarded based upon a random drawing of trivia question answerers (just as soon as I ask Chad how to do that!).

This has been addressed throughout this thread. There will be no counting policy. If you wish to adhere to the standard conversion formula (2 hours of TV = 1 list entry), you're welcome to do it. If you want to count each episode as an entry, have at it. It's your list. This is a freedom allowed by the fact that we are not concerning ourselves with list counts.

Off-topic rant
I will never understand the stupidity of counting a mini-series separately from other TV content. If a mini-series aired over five nights, an hour each night, then that should be 2 1/2 "converted" entries and not 5. That the number of nights aired should mean something instead of the actual time watched makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me.

Dimension X

There's nothing stopping you from doing a checklist, or leaving your "comfort zone" if that's what you want to do. Some of us like to keep it simple, and just want an extra push to make us watch some of the unwatched stuff in our stacks.
Sure, they could be called "marathons" or something similar, but "Challenge" is what we have traditionally called them. The Horror Challenge came first, and it did (and has every year, I believe) include a challenge to watch 100 films in 31 days. I think most of the other Challenge runners have urged people to set their own goals, to try to keep people from watching (or at least claiming to watch) 400+ films in a month.

I thought it was decided that each episode of a show counted as 1. Maybe that was just what I decided to do on my own.

I see MinLShaw covered this:
Well, I was sort of correct.

And since I'm posting in here...
Any special reason you're waiting until Friday to start the list thread? We usually have them up at least a few days before the Challenge starts.

KaBluie

Why treat mini-series any differently than any other TV series? 5 episodes should count as 5 entries.

Ash Ketchum

So I'll just do what I'd originally planned, anyway: plow through some of the many anime TV series I have on DVD waiting to be watched. ("Armored Trooper Votoms" and "Marmalade Boy," here I come!)

But I will try to break it up with some of the many VHS tapes of old TV shows that I've accumulated through the decades. (Yes, I'm talking about you, "Death Valley Days," "Outer Limits," and "Man from U.N.C.L.E.")

Thanks for your responses, MinLShaw and Dimension X.

Travis McClain

My point exactly: why treat a mini-series differently? For instance, let's take Roots. It was originally aired on ABC over eight nights. Four nights featured two 1-hour episodes; the other four nights featured a single 1-hour episode. By the "mini-series nightly" logic, Roots would be worth 8 entries.

What I'm saying is that Roots should be converted like any other TV content. If 2 hours of content = 1 entry, then Roots should be worth 6 entries. That's consistent with how viewers of twelve hours of TV content would count their viewing.

Otherwise, by counting nights aired, Roots viewers are getting away with two freebies. That's my problem.

[Note: this is not a factor in the context of this challenge, as participants are free to count their viewings however they wish.]

As for why the list thread won't go live until New Year's Eve...I dunno. I'm still gathering necessary images, etc., for one thing. Otherwise, it may go live sooner. Stay tuned!

BobO'Link

I, too, would like to thank Ash Ketchum for his checklist ideas! I've been remiss in keeping up with this thread due to the "Holiday Challenge" and Holiday activities in general! As such my input was missing on this subject. I would have welcomed a checklist and may steal what Ash Ketchum and you put together "just because". I *never* complete them as many have items I simply refuse to complete (example: I very much dislike commentary tracks and MST3K type tracks and typically will not make any effort to complete this part of checklists). In spite of that I generally welcome them as they make me take a closer look at what I have and get a bit more broad with my viewing. For that reason I will quite probably include one for personal incentive.
I tend to be somewhat outside the norm on many things. I very much like diversity in my viewing. That's why I typically keep 3-4 half-hour and 2-3 hour series of various genres of TV programs in rotation. I rarely "burn through" an entire series of *any* show unless it has 15 or fewer episodes for the entire run. It's rare that I'll watch an entire disk of episodes for any one program in a sitting. However, for this challenge I'll probably do much more "watch a full disk" type viewing as it's quicker than changing disks after every ep. or two. Generally, I'll use the challenge to work through my unwatched pile as much as possible.

kstublen

I'm just going to go the standard approximately 2 hours = 1 entry.

Cardsfan111

Since I did TV-on-DVD as part of the Make-Your-Own-Challenge in May of this year, I went back and checked how I "counted" things. I went for television hours of viewing, meaning each hour long episode was "1" and 2 half-hour episodes was the same. I'll likely stick with that this go-around.

BobO'Link

I've not yet decided on how to count. If I go with full seasons I'll probably just list them that way, but if I follow my normal viewing habits I'll probably go with a ep. by ep. or disk by disk type list.

I just completed a couple of seasons ("Seinfeld" - S8 and "Twilight Zone" - S3) and need to add more to the "to watch" stack but am having trouble selecting them as I really want to save a few that are high on the "want to watch soon" list for the challenge...

Travis McClain

List thread is active! Did that just blow your mind? All credit goes to Rich (GoldenWheels) for the generosity of prizes.

Cardsfan111

to the list thread and to the prizes being offered.

kstublen

Thanks for putting the thread up, now I can delete the file that had the template for my post, lol. Looks good and lots of nice prizes; thanks GoldenWheels for putting 'em up and MinLShaw for starting the challenge.

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I know I asked this before, but since I see one of the Looney Tunes sets as a prize, I'm guessing that even though the Merrie Melodies/Looney Tunes shorts were originally theatrical shorts, that they would count for this challenge since most of us first saw them on television?

tellybox

Hey guys,

I've been a member of the board for quite some time now, but I've never really posted. I've always seen these challenges, and I'd like to (finally) partake in one. I'll be honest, I'm a little lost and was wondering if there was a thread where some general outlines are given/how do I keep track. Anyone out there want to help? Thanks!