I went ahead and created a thread with a poll just to determine "should we add another". I was going to wait but figured it can't hurt to start now. After we decide the if, we can decide the what, then the when. Is that ok all?
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/63...ding-13th.html

I don't really mind.

I was thinking drama with a side of romance. If we go musical, there's much better hosts out there. I figured it'd just get shot down pretty quick but the way people are talking, there's far more interest for something else.

OCD kicked in and I spent all day doing Challenge stats. All numbers are averages of the last three completed years (mid 2013 to mid 2016), except the Horror numbers are 2015 only because my calculator did not have enough digits to total three years of Horror numbers.

Thanks, Trevor's OCD! I assume those are thread views and not titles viewed.

I stand corrected on Criterion. I didn't realize Historical Appreciation was so, er, unappreciated. And I guess people are too busy during the holidays to watch and record, as someone recently mentioned.

Yeah, I was going to do titles viewed, but that would have added dozens (hundreds?) of hours to the tabulation time. I'm crazy, but also lazy.

Historical Appreciation being underappreciated is on me. I never managed to really get it off the ground the way it should have been. In hindsight, I think it was a mistake to amalgamate War and Western and expand to include Epics, Period Films, Costume Dramas, Biopics, blah, blah, blah. I really tried with the checklist to present some clearer structure to it, but pretty much no one even looks at those or cares about them and it seemed to turn into half a dozen people in any given year just marathon-ing Mad Men.

It's probably unfair to judge that challenge right now because it's the one most poised for a complete revamp that could make a world of difference. That's why I officially stepped aside as its host this summer, hoping some fresh blood could rejuvenate it.

That's signature material, hoss!

You're about my favorite person in DVDTalk history, but we do have some differences in Challenge philosophy. I doubt anyone could have done a better job of starting it and trying to stoke it's fire. But then, I'm of the thought process that the hosts are unimportant and the Challenges exist by themselves.
And that was the best part of it's beginning . But that feeling is because of my deep desire for inclusivity and for having every film to count at least one month per year. Having multiple different (but connected by theme) subsets in the same Challenge gives June potential for broader appeal. But the facts just appear to be that relatively few of us are into reality.
It's a great checklist with some cool ideas, but I'm not sure any innovation or hard work by a host could increase participation in this one by much.
Hey now! I definitely put no work into it. If you wanted fresh blood to improve it you should have forbidden me from being near it.

More general comments following shortly......

The stats I put together above, imho, don't really show a huge difference in Challenge loyalties. I see it as pretty much Horror far and away number one in all areas, and everything else is basically tied for number two. I didn't tabulate them for any purposes of denigrating or
changing an existing Challenge, I just like stats and get OCD about our little forum here.

But sadly, for the most part, all the Challenges are dipping substantially in numbers. Probably obvious, with physical media dying a slow death, so a website named DVDTalk is not going to be getting any new blood, and has plenty of 'retirements'.

All of the Challenges show pretty big drops the last few years in views. For example, Comedy went from 21k to 11k, Action from 22k to 11k, Drive-In from 41k to 20k, Animation from 23k to 9k, and TV from 32k to 15k. Maybe I'll look at 2014 and 2013 Horror, but I'm thinking those horrors haven't dropped nearly as much, and might even be stable.

Challenge participants have dipped only slightly in most Challenges; I think it's almost the same 30-40 of us that do almost every Challenge, with only Horror separating from the pack.

Post counts have actually been increasing in several of the Challenges, which maybe shows that some of us introverts are finally opening up.

I think Chad's proven definitively that Horror is the be-all, end-all challenge and he's done it by making what can only be characterized as a ridiculous commitment to it as host. His organization is amazing, from the general checklist to the daily themes and the daily films. He has prizes down to a science. He promotes and hypes that challenge punctually and without fail, and he has a lot to do with why the discussion threads for that challenge are so lively they have to be broken into parts. The host writes the introduction. That's all any potential participant sees from the outset. His intro posts can be intimidating, but they look cool as hell.

So, yeah, I do think that hosts matter. Not really for TV on DVD*; that one just needs someone to start the discussion and list threads and then it's self-sufficient from there.

Also, looking at your handy dandy chart for challenge activity, I'd like to point out that even though MYO has an average of 14 more participants than Historical Appreciation, its participants average only 6.97 posts vs. the latter's 7.93. Discussion just isn't really there for MYO, which is why I maintain it's the one that brings the least to the table as a community-wide event. The numbers are clear; it has the lowest rate of posts from its participants, and the lowest overall average of posts. People may love concocting their little challenge schemes for themselves, but conversation is more about "What's your idea?" than the actual viewed content.

Wait, isn't Holiday 5.16 ppp? And Comedy 6.76? So you want to take Christmas away!?!? And humor?! Oh my god, Travis is the Grinch!

I suggest you try your math on the holiday challenge before you proclaim MYOC the loser.

Holiday is more or less obligatory, though, isn't it? I quit participating in it a few years ago, but it just seems like it would have to be something that the majority of participants all agreed to formally retire before it would be on the chopping block.

And, yes, Trevor, I would take away Christmas! Comedy can stay, though as I've previously mentioned, I think swapping it with Criterion would be a benefit to both. September feels like more of a funny month to me than November, and November feels more like an art house month to me than September.

Yes, Chad is amazing, our patron saint, and the greatest DVDTalker in history. If I could be anyone on this forum, it's Chad. The work ethic, level of commitment, creativity, charm, and patience he has are awe inspiring. But I think he'd be the first to admit that he's had a lot of help over the years. Those threads are alive, and innovation comes from all corners. He implements those ideas better than anyone though. We might not have any Challenges here without Chad.

But, and I deserve to be hit by lightning for even thinking this, horror is a genre that would dominate even if a lame-ass host like me were running it. Not at nearly the numbers Chad creates, but still huge. Looking around the internet over the years, horror is the only other genre I see that inspires similar marathons/challenges. It's fans are built for these things.

Going outside to dig my grave now.....

I think Holiday marathons are almost at the Horror level when it comes to a sort of innate Challengeyness. We do sort of take it for granted, death taxes and Rudolph, but I don't think we'd ever get to the point where it'd be considered for removal/rotation. I mean, what else are people going to want to binge on at that time of year? But I'm also incredibly biased, as I own about 1000 holiday films/shows and religiously collect Christmas comics and dvds.
I can see your point, but back when it was first planned the idea was that November comedy would be a great counterbalance and coping mechanism for those of us recovering from binging on horror. I think that idea had a lot of support at the time and seems to help me, at least, in practice. I tend to overindulge in October and laughter is a good medicine. But I'm open to agreeing with you and maybe we all deciding to move multiple months around.

Having tried my hand at hosting, I have even greater appreciation for what Chad has done as host than I had when I was just a participant. There's something to be said for establishing and maintaining a climate that encourages so many people to offer input each year, and for having the willingness to consider all that input each year. Hell, the Horror pre-challenge brainstorming session threads are livelier than all the other challenges! Just keeping up with all the suggestions and requests, on top of having his own fresh ideas, requires considerable skill. And then to actually synthesize all of that input into a new iteration? SHAZAM.

Having feedback and input isn't intrinsically helpful if there are contradictions and competing agendas for the host to finesse. I'd be willing to bet if someone audited the Historical Appreciation discussions, "should this count...?" arguments made up more actual posts than anything else. If I live to be 100, I doubt I'll ever again see the word "zeitgeist" in print without reflexively rolling my eyes!

Yeah, he's absolutely had a whole lot of enthusiastic participants contribute each year, and frankly, I envy the hell out of him for that. But I don't think enough credit is being given to how deftly he's managed that that volume of input.

Yeah, that's why I didn't even bother crunching its numbers. Holiday is just too much of a given. Also, I adore that you also collect Christmas comics. And by "also", I don't mean "something else you do", I mean "someone other than me"!

I can appreciate that counterbalance relationship from Horror to Comedy; it makes sense. But I wonder, had Criterion not already been set for September when Comedy was brainstormed into existence, might the matter of following Horror have been as prevalent an influencing factor? Besides, the data is pretty clear that the majority of Horror participants don't cleanse their palates with the Comedy challenge. They may gorge on comedies in November, but they aren't doing it on this forum consistent with how they gorge on horror flicks in October.

Youre right. When I get into these Challenge maintenance moods, I sometimes fear that I'll outlive Chad and have to live with a less perfect October. As much as I'm addicted to DVDTalk and have come here near daily for (parts of) two centuries now, I'm not sure if I would still be here without his being here first and starting this whole shebang. I likely would have moved on once the Reel and Bigstar coupons dried up.

DVDTalk, I came here for the coupons, but stayed for the OHMC.

I came because of Speedy's ad posts and got into the forum proper because of the Horror Challenge!

Now I know who to send my doubles to. (What's the current zeitgeist feeling on ending sentences with prepositions? I always notice it and think about correcting it, but usually end up ignoring it and almost hoping that someone corrects me.)True, but the masses that come here in October aren't even here the other 11 months. While interesting in theory, I don't think a OHMC "lead-in" is really a thing.

I think the other genres just can't possibly be compared to Horror. Like, say Chad somehow had the time and energy to fully devote to two Challenged. And let's say he even put more effort into the second Challenge, let's say Criterion or Comedy. Well, I don't think the overall numbers for Criterion or Comedy would be much higher than they are now. Don't get me wrong, they'd definitely be a bit higher. And horror would be much smaller without Chad. But I think it's sort of a perfect storm where DVDTalk is blessed with a Chad on the one genre capable of a bigger-than-DVDTalk-itself event.

Since we're confessing... I came for the Columbia House and BMG codes and stayed for the DVD bargains and challenges. My first was a SF/Fantasy challenge and I had so much fun I threw myself fully into all of them for a full year before I got a bit burned out and scaled back to get more sleep. Even then, my OCD made it hard and it took a while before I could allow myself to *not* participate in one of the challenges for which I have little interest.
I always notice it and make every effort to not do it myself in print. I've spent far too long rewriting posts so they read correctly and in a manner of which my English teacher would be proud. I tend to write far more properly than I speak, even though I notice my occasional poor grammar when speaking and when I fail to correct it become annoyed with myself. I blame part of that on my mother who beat into my and my sister's head that people perceive you based on the way you speak and write.

That said... Yeah... Chad does a superlative job with the Horror challenge but I, too, feel it has somewhat a life of its own and that it would continue without him. He'd be missed but I think there'd still be more participation in that one than in any of the others.

I also agree about discussions in the MYO. I try to keep things moving and get discussion going by posting about what I'm viewing but it doesn't always work. As has been mentioned, people seem more into looking at the creativity, or lack thereof, put into the various themes. I try to be clever and not repeat myself but I've fallen into spinning it into a extension of the TVonDVD challenge, throwing in a few movies to keep it from being obvious.

To that end I'd not be too opposed to dumping it for a more focused challenge. At least there should be more discussion. As I've said, I follow the discussions, and will occasionally post in the threads, even if I'm not actively participating.

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to this, but instead of looking at "average # of posts," take a look at the "Replies" to those threads and see who actually posted in them (since not all participants post in the discussion threads).


The Historical Challenges for those three years had an average of 19 people (70% of participants) who posted in the discussion threads, and the MYOCs had an average of 33 people (80% of participants) who posted.

I don't know how much posting one has to do in a thread to get counted as participating in community building, but since you say all conversation ended after the start of the MYOCs, and the participants were only interested in "concocting their little challenge schemes for themselves," lets throw out all posters with three or fewer posts.


Hmm, still more people posting in the MYOC discussion threads. Wait, the highest Historical year is equal to the lowest MYOC year (with 14 posters each). That's gotta count for something.

Did I say "three or fewer posts"? I meant five or fewer. Let's throw out everyone with five or fewer posts. What the hell could they possibly be contributing to the community?


Now it's getting closer! Let's throw out all those slackers with 10 or fewer posts, those lazy anti-community-building jerks don't deserve to be counted anyway! Probably asking if a movie counts, or talking about zeitgeist...


Well fuck! The MYOC average is still higher! But it "brings the least to the table as a community-wide event!" I know it's true, 'cause I read it on the internet.

I got it! Let's throw out all those introverted fuckwads who only posted 20 or fewer times in those threads!

Oh, hell yeah! There you go! 3.33 posters per year (weighted) average for the super-popular-better-community-building Historical Challenges vs. only 3 posters per year (weighted) average for the super-duper-so-unpopular-it-should-be-banned Make-Your-Own (You-Fucking-Selfish-Anti-Community-Non-Posting-Asshole) Challenge.



EDIT: Here's one with the top five and bottom five posters stripped out.


Historical Challenge weighted average is 9 posters a year with 7.7 posts apiece.
MYOC weighted average is 23 posters a year with only 5.04 posts each. Slackers.

The numbers are clear, motherfucker! It has the lowest rate of posts from its participants, and the lowest overall average of posts! Eat it!

^ Hopefully that was all in good fun, like Travis and my "arguments".

But the main thing I take from those numbers is that most Challenges would be ghost towns without shadokitty daily sharing his list posts. DVDTalk is a shell of what it once was, obviously. I can't imagine IB would willingly share the site statistics, but can we get something ourselves showing overall site activity over the years? Google wayback machine or something? I've never used that site(?) myself, and have no expertise in this sort of query.

Not "all" of it, but the post I was responding to didn't deserve a completely serious response.