Hey all,

I have a 65" HDTV, and a complete home theater built in my house -- however, I have not interest in BR or HD at the moment. The format war ticks me off, and the fact that some movies are on BR and not HD (and the other way around) I am not even thinking about it now. To to be a completest now, someone would have to buy a BR and HD player and different discs for both.......... no thanks....


Later,

Matt!

I'm another holdout. Then again I had a 480p projector until a few weeks ago.

DVDs at 115" diagonal look great. I have some sources of HD - OTA ABC & NBC (at nighttime, signal is flaky in the daytime), DISH HD, etc.

HD looks a lot better, yes. But the price premium of the discs right now is ridiculous.

But I would only be buying a limited number of HD DVDs. I'm one of the dissenters in the bitching-about-combo-discs thread over at AVS. I like the idea of a disc that can be played anywhere as well as good PQ in my HT.

Now if you have no interest in watching your DVDs outside of your HT, fine, I can see the attraction. But sometimes I want to put a DVD on while I play Civ4 in the computer room. Or I watch DVDs in the daytime on our SDTV. I have 2-4 PCs, 1 laptop, 1 portable DVD player, 1 27" SDTV with cheap DVD player, etc. I don't like only being able to play discs on the projector/HT setup. We like to watch DVDs on trips, at hotels, etc. I'm losing a lot of convenience and portability for the PQ of HD-DVD/BD.

Players are still way too expensive and uncommon to actually shift to buying Hi-def DVDs. And thanks to the annoying format war there's no telling when this might change, you might end up with the dud format.

I don't have enough money to burn to buy discs at a premium that I can only play on one player in one place and might be non-existent as a format later.

I admit that I will likely bite when there's HD-DVD LOTR. I'm a LOTR movie fanboy. And with Toshiba HD-DVD players doing a pretty good job deinterlacing & upconverting I might bite as I never liked my current Zenith DVB-318 very much (color bleeding, right edge cropping). The closer to about $250 the pricetag gets the more I consider it.

On the consumer front, I only know a few people with HDTVs. Although sales are way up, true market penetration is still pretty low. I still think HD discs will stay a niche format like LD or SACD for quite some time.

I do not plan on getting rid of my nearly 1000 DVD collection. But, because I was able to get the XBox360 add-on drive for under $130 and being able to get HD-DVD's for nearly free, I couldn't hold out. I'm restricting my HD purchases only to those discs which I don't already have and a few that I've been wanting to replace anyway (i.e. non-anamorphics and flippers).

I currently have over 2300 DVD's with a good portion of those being Criterion, 2 Disc SE and SE Box Sets, and even hard to get imports that outdid the region 1 versions. I am very proud of my DVD collection and spent alot of time hunting down deals to get me to this point. With that being said I purchased a 5k Pioneer Plasma this spring and absolutely had to get a HD-DVD player for it. Ended up paying around 300 bucks after using the best buy reward zone cash from my TV purchase. I went into this HD thing only planning on replacing the titles that I absolutely loved but and this is a big but, I have been so blown away at the difference in quality that I am now going to replace every single DVD that I can and will only keep my truly special DVD's. My SD DVD purchasing has absolutely ground to a halt with me purchasing less than 5 titles in the last 3-4 months and I am already past the 100 mark with HD-DVD's.

I completely understand where people are coming from when they say there is no way they are going to replace their DVD's as I was in the same place you were saying the exact same thing. However once you start watching alot of HD-DVD or even BD releases and then you go back to SD DVD, I hate to say this but it looks terrible. Even with the great up-converting from the A1 it just isn't the same. SD titles that I used to think rocked the house now just dont hold water. As I have explained in the HD forum before this is a completely natural effect and the same thing will happen to everyone here if you start watching only HD content for an extended period of time.

The thing I dont understand is why people are getting so defensive about the HD formats. Its not like its a threat to SD DVD's. Your SD DVD market will be around for a long long time so I really dont understand why people are showing such aggression towards the formats and towards the people that have decided to go that route. If you dont want to upgrade to HD then that is fine and its absolutely your right to do so but on the same hand it is also the people's right to upgrade if they want to and there is absolutely good reason to do so. Its not like HD is some way of double dipping for the studios. This is a legit upgrade from the DVD format and has been coming for awhile now. It has matured and is ready for the prime time.

So to sum this up, I was once just like most of you guys posting in here, not planning on replacing my DVD's but I have been absolutely won over by HD-DVD. Someone posted in here that the quality of the formats have been a disappointment and all I can say to that is maybe some Blu-Ray people have been disappointed but every HD-DVD owner I know is absolutely thrilled with their purchase. I gave HD-DVD a chance and I have never looked back. If you dont want to upgrade then dont, SD DVD's will be around for a long long time however if your on the fence about trying these formats I say jump in, I haven't had this much fun buying and watching movies since DVD's first came out. In my mind HD is everything they say it is and I am 100% satisfied thus far. What more can I ask for?

PS..

The difference will certainly be greater on a whopping great high-quality plasma screen, but then, the average Joe Public won't own one of those.

I think there's going to be a lot of disappoinment when people view HD on their 28"-32" sets.

Why is there some hostility towards HD?

I think some of us see it as a rather clever ploy by the studios to produce a solution to a problem that no-one really had in order to entice us all into buying the same old films yet again.

Like I said, it's cheaper for the studios to bung Spider-Man 2 out for the fourth or fifth time - standard edition, 2 disc edition, 2-disc special edition, 3-disc special edition with new features, and now the HD/BR one - than it is for them to take the time, money and effort to lift titles that have been rotting away in the archive for who knows how long, do a decent restoration on them and produce a quality product that utilises the DVD format to the full.

I am willing to bet that the HD/BR editions will look better than the SD ones did, but that none of them looked as good as they could have!

I think it;s a big con when people are told the only way to get a better edition is to get an HD one!

I guess I get a little angry when I think of all the titles I;d like to see on DVD, but will never make it because the studios are spending all their time and effort and money on pushing HD instead - one can hardly blame them, it costs less and makes them more by flogging the blockbusters yet again.

I also think a lot of the hostility is generated by the sheer, crass stupidity and incompetence that is having two mutually incompatible, rival formats.

I purchased the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on. I'll be buying titles on HD-DVD I believe will truly benefit from owning in HD. Sorry Goodfellas, you don't make the cut. Movies like Superman Returns however, another story. I currently own:

The Mummy
The Polar Express
Dr. Seuss' How The Grinch Stole Christmas
Charlie And The Chocolate Factory
Phantom Of The Opera
The Corpse Bride
King Kong

If it wasn't for the add-on, I wouldn't be in the HD format at all. I can't justify spending $500 or even $1000 (sorry Blu-Ray, you're freakin' nuts) for a media player, period. Considering the fact the HD-DVD add-on includes that pricey universal media remote, as well as King Kong on HD-DVD, it's a steal! It's more than worth it to me to buy into that alternative and see what happens and buy HD-DVD's only for those must have big name titles.

So obviously I'm not giving up on DVD. DVD's look pretty great even on an HD set. Take Pixar's Cars for example. And for good measure, there's also plenty of real action flicks that look pretty fantastic. Also, most 4:3 material looks fantastic if it's encoded correctly, and there's no need to replace most of that stuff either.

I think the best way is to go HD/BluRay AND still keep your collection of SD dvds. Why? For me the answer is extras. Once the hype of pic/audio quality comes down after the intial 'ohs and awes', having great docs and deleted scenes will be important.

I think, once i pick a HD format, I'll keep both SD dvds while buying HD titles. I've looked at some of your DVDaf collections and noticed people with HD-DVD or BluRay have bought almost any title released. I think that's because of the initial 'oh and awe' again, cause I don't see myself buying something like "The Break-Up" or "50 First dates". If you like those movies, fine enjoy, but I really think its just the early wow factor and not really wanting these movies for your collection.

Right, HD should be about the 'wow' factor. Films like 'The Break-Up' are of a very nice transfer quality that makes it look like you're watching the film on a screen in a theater... and that's without upconversion. With upconversion, you're looking at an even better picture that has a little more color vivid-ness and sharpness. Unless you're looking at something that's got a look to it that just screams to be in HD, why bother?

I agree. Plus a lot of my interest (and collection) are old horror/grindhouse/exploitation films. So for me, it's movie genre. When are those types of movies make the jump to hi-def? No time soon, if at all.

HD proponents always argue "But it looks so much better!" Well, that a given... but I don't buy only mainstream movies. They make up a small percentage of my collection.

I'm looking at late 2007 to seriously start checking out HD gear. By then, prices/problems should be a lot less than now.

Oh... My... God...

Okay, let me put my point in the simplest terms possible. A lot of us don't have ANY kind of inputs that would give us anything CLOSE to a hi-def picture, and therefore can't worry about HD disc formats right now. I'm really starting to feel a bit of what the OP must be feeling, because when I start talking about TVs not being up to spec, people respond with stuff like "all HD-TVs should have component inputs", to which my response is... DUUUUHHHHH!!! I'm talking about regular old TVs here, remember them? The kind where if you're lucky they'll actually have S-Video inputs??? I'm sure HD-DVD and Blu-ray players have S-Video outputs, but really, what's the point?

Oh, and Milo, yes, I saw the link and it was most helpful. However, the longevity of Laserdisc only strengthens my argument. It was around for 20 years, but still failed to put a dent into VHS, whereas DVD obliterated VHS almost immediately. You're right though, a lot of it was due to price. Laserdiscs never really got as low as VHS sell-through prices until they were already on the way out, but DVD started out really close to VHS prices, which helped a lot. HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs seem to be pretty much in line with DVD prices (okay, slightly higher, but not like $50 or something, which is what happens with video game software), but I don't think that's gonna help. Just my opinion, though.

I for one will never give up my DVD collection. I have invested so much time, money, and quite frankly love into it. I love looking at them, I love watching them, and I love collecting them. I love the content, I love the packaging. I haven't seen any special casing for the new format discs as of yet.

The originality that goes into some of them like the "puffy" shirt on the new "Van Wilder: Van Gone Wilder" set is fun and unique (at least to my collection).

Most of the special editions (the 2-disc digi's "Memento (LE)" , the lenticulars "Batman Begins (DE)" , the tins "Oldboy", the blood paks "Saw I (UR)", the environmentally friendly "Incoherent Truth", the elite "Criterion Collection", the rare and OOP "Little Shop of Horrors (with alt. ending)", the other region exclusives "Sympathy For Lady Vengeance (R3)", the tin cans with matchbook "Reservoir Dogs", the non-conventional "Plaga Zombies: Mutant Zone", or the colossal mega-sets "Superman Ultimate") have their own personality and cool style that I don't think the other 2 mediums will invest in. I love displaying them and gawking.

How could I get rid of those or not purchase the upcoming standard originals? i have almost 700 strong now and while I don't think it will grow expontentially in the next years it isn't because of other mediums that catch my eye.

Maybe in the future I will invest in a better quality medium and buy some movies I like to experience them all over again, but I will always have a standard DVD player or a both format player.

I love DVD's. Plain and Simple.

First, the last LD's was released in 2001, making it the format run 23 year.

I will not sell my DVD collection. I will not sell my LD collection or VHS also. Ther reason is simple, there are sooo many movies only on VHS, LD or DVD that selling all and hoping for the HD-DVD version would not be smart. I did stop buying bigger movies on DVD for a couple of years now, but I still buy movies on LD, VHS, DVD that will probably not come on HD.

Okay fine, Laserdisc had TWENTY-THREE years to make a dent in VHS, or at least enter the mainstream as a second format, and it failed to do that in TWENTY-THREE years. Does that sound any better than not being able to do that in 20 years???

Clearly, you are so enamoured of this format that it's clouded your judgement, and quite possibly your grasp on reality. If the "longevity" of Laserdisc were any indication of its worth as a format, DVD would never have been invented. Period.

I think it's silly to attack the early adopters of the HD/BR format. It's the people that are willing to take the risks that will determine which format comes out on top.

Last year, I was one of many who tested the 360 console, and many of us felt that it wasn't ready for release. We believed that Microsoft was rushing the console out too early. We knew why they wanted to get a jump on Blu-Ray, though. And it seems to be working out well for them.

The PS3 complicates matters in the format war, which is why I'm waiting.

I for one thank each and every one of you that's been investing in either/both formats. You're taking the risks for all of us and I salute you for that.

Here's a site that many will find of interest - 'the dvd wars' - it lists sales ranks and other data regarding blu-ray and hd-dvd. granted, it only gathers sales figures from amazon, but it is full of very good info for those thinking of taking the HD plunge. If I had to make a prediction one way or the other, I think in the end both formats will be a failure...

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

The difference is that I have the experience and rather big knowledge about LD, and you don't have it. Say's it all.

No, you don't seem to have "big knowledge" at all. Want to know why I'm not still playing with Laserdiscs??? Because I went through all that YEARS ago. Just because I don't still play my discs on a daily basis, it doesn't mean I know nothing about the format. I've grown beyond it, and obviously you haven't.

I am sorry but I just dont understand the hostility. Your getting angry at the studios for giving people the option for something better? This has to be the first time in history that people are getting upset with improvement. Its not like they are forcing you to buy these formats and if that were the case then I would certainly understand where your coming from. However that is not the case and SD DVD's are going to be here for a very long time. If you want it its there, if you dont then you still have the format you have been with and want to continue with. So again I dont understand the hostility at all. The studios have simply given you the option to upgrade and at least IMO, options are never a bad thing.

As for the format war, Yes there I can understand where people may be a little upset but the bottom line is that this is how it ended up working out and if you want a HD format as I do then you have to get past all of the corporate BS and jump on in. Sure I could sit here and bitch and moan about how the thousands of dollars I have already spent on HD-DVD's might go down the toilet because of this thing but I am to busy enjoying the format to even think about that stuff. The more I learn about why the format war started the more it looks like it was Sony who really wouldn't budge on their side of the line and I am no longer supporting Sony so I have done what I can from a consumers stand point on that subject.

Again I can understand where people may be frustrated by the format war but I honestly dont think that is even where most of the hostility is coming from. I personally think its coming from people who have really nice SD DVD collections and absolutely hate the thought of having to upgrade or repurchase titles again and its with this line of thinking that I am having the most problem understanding because nobody is forcing you to do anything and your format isn't going anywhere. SD DVD's are going to be around for a very long time. We are so far away from HD phasing out SD all together that I honestly couldn't even estimate when that time would come. DVD is a powerhouse and if your content with them then stay there and be content. Getting upset because a company is offering better technology to the public is an absolutely mind boggling thing to me as alot of people would prefer that HD didn't even exist. With that line of thinking you might as well get pissed at the computer industry who continually upgrades their product line thus making the computer you buy today practically obsolete the day you actually buy it. Would you really prefer that technology just stood still so that the equipment or items you had remained the top of the line thus giving you no reason to upgrade?

So like I said I understand the format war frustration but I am not buying that this is where most of the hostility is coming from. From what I have read on these forums alot of people wouldn't upgrade even if there was just one format and they are just horrified at having their DVD collection become last years thing technology wise and its with this line of thinking that I just cannot come to terms with for the life of me. I personally want technology to continue to drive forward and I want the option of buying the absolute best that technology can offer. Thats how I have always felt and I dont think ill ever change in that area. I want continually better computers and better speaker technology and better cars and more hard drive space etc... What I want from my home theatre is no different.

PS..

Crap, you guys are arguing in two threads now. Be careful, or someone's gonna get a "time out".

I used to love the SD casing too that was until my collection became so large that I actually had to throw all my cases away and start storing them in books. I was on the fence about the new casing for both BDand HD-DVD but now Iabsolutly love them. Its a standardized case that is much smaller than the SD case. DVD cases dont need to be that big and while I used to love the big thick special edition boxes just as everyone else did it quickly becomes a massive storage problem having DVD cases that are that big. S to each his own but I just had to comment on how I absolutly think that making the cases smaller was 100% the right way to go. I have really grown to like the new cases as mostof the other HD peope have as well. Its just like anything else and takes time to get used to. They look really good when you have rows of them on your entertainment shelves and again the size difference is a well needed adjustment for the industry.

PS...

No. I don't care all that much about PQ, and I don't have an HDTV (and probably one have one for about 2 years).

I don't hesitate to still buy DVDs, and I don't plan on upgrading many titles, just maybe a select few favorites.

I'll eventually make the HD upgrade and start buying new titles in whichever HD format wins out, but that's it.

Why does it matter if it breaks into the mainstream? Does your neighbor having an HD DVD deck make the discs look any better?

Sure, widespread adoption has its advantages (deeper catalog titles, lower prices, easier availability), but as long as the studios keep a steady flow of titles coming at high quality and at fairly reasonable prices, I couldn't care less if the next gen formats have much of a mainstream impact. It doesn't matter if it does well. It just has to do well enough. A Laserdisc-ish scenario is perfectly fine with me.

He will not give up. I have two Pioneer HLD-X0, one Pioneer HLD-X9, a couple of other players, and use a Sony Ruby projector, so Im probably the one that don't see right

I don't think there's a hostility towards Hi-def DVD. More like indifference.

If there was one format I think it would be a different story. I might even have a player already (OK, unless it was the obscenely priced Blu-ray player that was the only format).

But I need discs to be playable in more than 1 place. I'm not spending my money on a disc that can only be played in my HT. I'm willing to look ahead, but there's no way of knowing if HD-DVD will win, Blu-ray, or a combo (ala DVD+/-R).

Until then, or until my inner LOTR fanboy makes me pay for one upon the realase of LOTR, I'm a likely holdout.

Couldnt agree more and I think this is a point that many people overlook. I would love it if these formats became mainstream for the reasons Adam stated above but that doesnt mean that I need them to become mainstream. I will be perfectly content with HD-DVD as long as it remains a viable format. I am not investing in this format because of what other people want or what other people do. I am in the HD-DVD format because of me and my fiance who both love movies and thank god both love HD. Like Adam said as long as these formats stay alive and continue to release titles, I will be perfectly content.

PS..