Original Star Wars Trilogy Being Re-Released On DVD...The Non-SEs
05-24-06 | 08:26 PM
#1076
Banned
Originally Posted by emhello
What's wrong with Beverly Hills? We do the majority of our shopping there.
05-24-06 | 09:50 PM
#1077
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From: The Other Side
Originally Posted by Lt Ripley
I guess what I am saying is, kids LOVED Star Wars before the retarded Romper Room edits Suckass made to them.
05-24-06 | 10:11 PM
#1078
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Terrell
That's not the same thing as saying Lucas owes us. Lucas should try and please fans, while also trying to please himself as well. But that's not a right, they Star Wars fans seem to think they're owed.
Lucas has been giving those fans (and they are a majority of SW fans) the finger for a decade now, and I'm sick of it. If I made that kind of money thanks to a loyal fanbase like that I'd make sure that I gave them the products that they wanted the way they wanted them (within reason, of course). It's just good business to cater to your customers wishes. Lucas doesn't. He thinks we should cater to him. That is arrogance that is just out of control.
What a putz.
05-24-06 | 10:25 PM
#1079
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From: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City)
Originally Posted by B5Erik
All I'm saying is that the fans are owed respect and appreciation for making this butthead a billionaire. He shows neither to any of the fans who prefer his ORIGINAL versions from the 70's and 80's.
Lucas has been giving those fans (and they are a majority of SW fans) the finger for a decade now, and I'm sick of it. If I made that kind of money thanks to a loyal fanbase like that I'd make sure that I gave them the products that they wanted the way they wanted them (within reason, of course). It's just good business to cater to your customers wishes. Lucas doesn't. He thinks we should cater to him. That is arrogance that is just out of control.
What a putz.
Lucas has been giving those fans (and they are a majority of SW fans) the finger for a decade now, and I'm sick of it. If I made that kind of money thanks to a loyal fanbase like that I'd make sure that I gave them the products that they wanted the way they wanted them (within reason, of course). It's just good business to cater to your customers wishes. Lucas doesn't. He thinks we should cater to him. That is arrogance that is just out of control.
What a putz.
But, it's not just being respectful or appreciative to fans that prefer the ORIGINAL versions, it's about showing respect and appreciation to those who made him a billionaire because of those ORIGINAL versions.
We saw them in the movie theatres when they were released (both times) more than once (I saw it everyday for a month straight), we paid outrageous amounts of dollars for the FULLFRAME versions when they were first released on VHS ($75, anybody?) and supported his whole industry.
Yes, yes, I know...nobody forced us to...blah, blah, blah...but we should at least get the same respect and appreciation we've shown his creations. I mean, it's not like we're asking to go to fucking Skywalker ranch and "make" our own versions (unlike adigitalman, Magnoliafna, etc..), we'd just like the original versions in a way that's indicative of the DVD industry today. dts? that'd be nice, but not expected. insert? that'd be nice, but not expected. 16x9? there's really no reason why (in this day and age) these films shouldn't be that way..
05-24-06 | 11:23 PM
#1080
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by VoreLord
This was posted on TheForce.net forums by a user named RogueScribner. I agree with this opinion 100% on this issue:
"Even if you only have a standard TV set, you would still benefit from an anamorphic presentation as it would INCREASE the resolution of the image on your screen. "
"Even if you only have a standard TV set, you would still benefit from an anamorphic presentation as it would INCREASE the resolution of the image on your screen. "
05-25-06 | 07:01 AM
#1081
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
Just a nit-pick, but an anamorphic transfer doesn't increase the resolution shown on a standard TV. An anamorphic transfer is downconverted to the same resolution a non-anamorphic transfer has for showing on a standard 4:3 TV.
05-25-06 | 08:57 AM
#1082
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
Just a nit-pick, but an anamorphic transfer doesn't increase the resolution shown on a standard TV. An anamorphic transfer is downconverted to the same resolution a non-anamorphic transfer has for showing on a standard 4:3 TV.
What you're saying is that better resolution does not equal better picture because the television you're watching them on is the same. But that's not true; 35mm has better resolution than 16mm, and when you transfer them to a medium you can watch on a standard TV, even though the television shows them at the same resolution, you can tell which is 35 and which is 16 because of differences in the resolution of the source.
Here's an example from Digital bits. As you will see, there is a noticeable difference between "non-anamorphic on a 4:3" and "anamorphic on a 4:3", albeit not as noticeable as true anamorphic vs. non-anamorphic, or non-anamorphic on a 16:9 vs anamorphic. The one is a little sharper and has slightly better contrast.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic235demo.html
Last edited by ThatGuamGuy; 05-25-06 at 09:01 AM.
05-25-06 | 09:36 AM
#1083
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally Posted by ThatGuamGuy
Obviously they are coming through at the same resolution, because nothing can give the television more resolution. However, the DVD itself will be able to devote more memory to the image itself, because some of the lines which would be devoted to black bars. So the image would look at least slightly better (if you assume they use the maximum amount of space).
What you're saying is that better resolution does not equal better picture because the television you're watching them on is the same. But that's not true; 35mm has better resolution than 16mm, and when you transfer them to a medium you can watch on a standard TV, even though the television shows them at the same resolution, you can tell which is 35 and which is 16 because of differences in the resolution of the source.
Here's an example from Digital bits. As you will see, there is a noticeable difference between "non-anamorphic on a 4:3" and "anamorphic on a 4:3", albeit not as noticeable as true anamorphic vs. non-anamorphic, or non-anamorphic on a 16:9 vs anamorphic. The one is a little sharper and has slightly better contrast.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic235demo.html
What you're saying is that better resolution does not equal better picture because the television you're watching them on is the same. But that's not true; 35mm has better resolution than 16mm, and when you transfer them to a medium you can watch on a standard TV, even though the television shows them at the same resolution, you can tell which is 35 and which is 16 because of differences in the resolution of the source.
Here's an example from Digital bits. As you will see, there is a noticeable difference between "non-anamorphic on a 4:3" and "anamorphic on a 4:3", albeit not as noticeable as true anamorphic vs. non-anamorphic, or non-anamorphic on a 16:9 vs anamorphic. The one is a little sharper and has slightly better contrast.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic235demo.html
Originally Posted by DigitalBits link
Anamorphic video as it appears on a Standard 4x3 TV. The DVD player performs a mathematical downconversion on the video signal, in effect combining every 4 lines of vertical resolution into 3 until the correct aspect ratio is achieved. Electronically-generated black bars are added to the existing ones (to fill in the remaining screen area), completing the image. Visually, it's nearly indistinguishable from a non-anamorphic (letterboxed) DVD image.
If anything, anamorphic video looks slightly worse on a 4:3 display than nonanamorphic video because NONanamorphic video is optimised on expensive studio equipment for 4:3 display while anamorphic depends upon your player doing a mathematical conversion on every 4 lines into 3. A highend player is going to do that better than a $30 DVD player bought at Walmart.
Anamorphic encoded DVDs are intended for 16:9 TVs, which we will all be migrating towards eventually. Viewers with 4:3 displays want anamorphic encoded DVDs so they look better on their future displays, not their current ones. We're upset because we are getting discs eventually to be obsolete.
05-25-06 | 09:42 AM
#1084
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From: Tennessee
Originally Posted by Terrell
Not this "we made Lucas a billionaire and he owes us" crap. Lucas owes you and I nothing.
If I may invoke a “Clintonism,” I think it depends on what your definition of “owes” is.
Certainly, Lucas owes his fans nothing from a legal standpoint. From a philosophical standpoint, however, it’s somewhat debatable.
I think it really all comes down to gratitude. Seemingly, Lucas has little for Star Wars fans (or at least fans of the Original Theatrical Trilogy).
Certainly, Lucas has every right to distribute (or not to distribute) material to which he owns the copyright. However, consumers also have every right to make it known what products they wish to purchase, and in what manner they would like to see them released. While Lucas owns the copyright, it is consumers that drive the market.
05-25-06 | 09:58 AM
#1085
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Joseph B
If the anamorphic transfer is derived from a new restored digital master made from existing film elements as opposed to a transfer derived from a non-anamorphic 13 year old 480i D1 tape (the source of the 1993 LDs) then "Yes!" the transfer will look better even on a 4:3 set than what we'll (supposedly) be getting in September.
Besides, my point wasn't against a new anamorphic transfer. My nitpick was that an anamorphic and non-anamorphic transfer have the exact same resolution on a standard resolution 4:3 TV.
05-25-06 | 09:58 AM
#1086
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by ThatGuamGuy
Obviously they are coming through at the same resolution, because nothing can give the television more resolution. However, the DVD itself will be able to devote more memory to the image itself, because some of the lines which would be devoted to black bars. So the image would look at least slightly better (if you assume they use the maximum amount of space).
What you're saying is that better resolution does not equal better picture because the television you're watching them on is the same.
But that's not true; 35mm has better resolution than 16mm, and when you transfer them to a medium you can watch on a standard TV, even though the television shows them at the same resolution, you can tell which is 35 and which is 16 because of differences in the resolution of the source.
Here's an example from Digital bits. As you will see, there is a noticeable difference between "non-anamorphic on a 4:3" and "anamorphic on a 4:3", albeit not as noticeable as true anamorphic vs. non-anamorphic, or non-anamorphic on a 16:9 vs anamorphic. The one is a little sharper and has slightly better contrast.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic235demo.html
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic235demo.html
05-25-06 | 10:20 AM
#1087
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by mythmaker18
And if the prices don't drop before the government makes good on its "HD signals only" mandate,
05-25-06 | 10:25 AM
#1088
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by CKMorpheus
I mean come on, from what I understand the process of making original prints anamorphic is just a check of a box in the program that telecine's it.
The issue here is that Lucasfilm will not be performing a new telecine transfer, because they claim that all of the original film elements were destroyed (which is a very specious claim). The DVDs are being authored from the 1993 laserdisc transfers, which were mastered only in non-anamorphic letterbox Standard Definition at the time.
05-25-06 | 10:47 AM
#1089
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Josh Z
The issue here is that Lucasfilm will not be performing a new telecine transfer, because they claim that all of the original film elements were destroyed (which is a very specious claim).
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/Lucas...R_response.cfm
The negatives of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special Editions, and existing prints of the first versions are in poor condition.
It seems to me from the PR email that the idea to include to original versions was made by someone other than Lucas, and Lucas isn't too hot on the idea. As a result, they have very little money available to devote to this "bonus" feature.
05-25-06 | 11:01 AM
#1090
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From: The Other Side
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
But, but, but, I'm going to make independent films.
''What I found myself doing was being a director, and all a director does is tell a lot of other people what to do,'' he said. ''I don't enjoy that, and I've reached the point where I don't have to do it if I don't want to. I spend my time now working on very esoteric kinds of films that I can do all by myself.''
05-25-06 | 11:25 AM
#1091
Senior Member
Originally Posted by Jay G.
So they say that there are still prints of the original versions, but they are in poor condition and aren't going to try to restore them.
It seems to me from the PR email that the idea to include to original versions was made by someone other than Lucas, and Lucas isn't too hot on the idea. As a result, they have very little money available to devote to this "bonus" feature.
It seems to me from the PR email that the idea to include to original versions was made by someone other than Lucas, and Lucas isn't too hot on the idea. As a result, they have very little money available to devote to this "bonus" feature.
No, something else is at play here. Whether it's Lucas' near-cartoonish greed, ex-wife Marcia's divorce settlement, or just a total disregard for longtime Star Wars fans remains to be seen.
Whatever the case, I'm not buying the set in September until the OT gets the treatment it deserves.
05-25-06 | 12:56 PM
#1092
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Those who originally predicted these "fun" bonus discs would be non-anamorphic could have cleaned up if they took bets. I never would have believed it.
We should place odds on other predictions. Like...
Whether it will be single layer.
Whether the entire movie will run without chapter stops.
Whether Greedo and Jabba's subtitles will be in the bottom black bar, so you can't read them if you enlarge the image.
Whether there will be a Lucasfilm watermark in the bottom right hand corner.
We should place odds on other predictions. Like...
Whether it will be single layer.
Whether the entire movie will run without chapter stops.
Whether Greedo and Jabba's subtitles will be in the bottom black bar, so you can't read them if you enlarge the image.
Whether there will be a Lucasfilm watermark in the bottom right hand corner.
05-25-06 | 01:02 PM
#1093
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From: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City)
Originally Posted by rennervision
Those who originally predicted these "fun" bonus discs would be non-anamorphic could have cleaned up if they took bets.
05-25-06 | 01:08 PM
#1094
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Yeah, the "fun" word does grate on my nerves a bit. Maybe it's time to try and bring some "funny" to this thread. I found this on another site describing the upcoming TV ad for this release. Thought it was pretty good...
The sound blares as the THX logo appears on screen informing us that this commercial has been digitally mastered for the best possible audio. This is followed by a notice saying, “This commercial is being offered in anamorphic widescreen for supreme picture quality.”
Big, bold letters begin to appear on screen.
IN 1977...
...ONE FILM CAPTURED THE WORLD’S IMAGINATION...
...THIS SEPTEMBER...
...IT’S BACK!
The Star Wars logo triumphantly appears onscreen accompanied by the familiar force fanfare blasting through the speakers. Shots from the original unaltered movies begin to appear on screen. But since the commercial is in anamorphic widescreen and the movies are not, the screenshots from the new DVDs look ridiculously small and blurry and are surrounded by resolution robbing black bars.
...ON SEPTEMBER 12TH...
...SEE THE ORIGINAL STAR WARS...
...AS YOU FIRST SAW THEM...
...ON LASERDISC IN 1993.
Sound effect of the needle being violently yanked off a record player. Shot of an ewok tilting his head back and forth in confusion.
VOICE-OVER: Yes, that’s right. Due to overwhelming fan demand, LucasFilm is proud to provide your chance to see Star Wars as it originally appeared on Laserdisc. After an extensive search of the LucasFilm archives...
Shot of a pile of dusty old film reels entitled Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi mixed in with rotten banana peels and empty soda cans.
VOICE-OVER: ...it was found that only the laserdisc masters had survived and most of the original film prints had deteriorated beyond repair...
Slow pan-up from the pile of dusty old film reels to reveal George Lucas standing above the pile. He gives the camera a wink and a nod then whips out a flame-thrower and promptly torches the pile.
VOICE-OVER: ...due to, uh, natural causes.
Shot of Lucas looking up from the still smoking pile of ash that used to be original film prints of the movies, he looks in the camera and gives a big smile and thumbs-up.
VOICE-OVER: The original movies you all loved so much will be included as bonus material to the 2004 Special Editions, since it seems this is the only way to get you mangy pack of defiant ingrates to buy Lucas’ ultimate vision for Star Wars, you make me sick, you bunch of stinkin’ bottom feeders. Why I oughta---
Sound effect of someone being clubbed over the head with a crowbar and dragged from the room. A new and different voice continues with the voice-over narration. Tiny, grainy screenshots from the new DVDs continue to roll on screen.
VOICE-OVER: That’s right, don’t miss your chance to yet again buy the 2004 versions. And since this release includes leftover, unsold copies of the 2004 Special Editions and shoddy letterbox transfers of the original editions from laserdisc, the only money we spent was hiring a three-legged, drunk and disgruntled goat to photoshop the cover art. Yes, LucasFilm is the only company capable of releasing a DVD set miles below industry standard and still have you pathetic nerds pawning your pocket protectors and calculator watches to crawl back and beg for more Star Wars! BWAHAHAHAHAHA---
Again we hear the sound effect of someone being clubbed over the head with a crowbar and dragged from the room. And again a new and different voice continues with the voice-over narration. Barely visible screenshots of the Han shooting first and Death Star explosion minus Stargate ring occupy roughly 50% of the screen
VOICE-OVER: Money, money, money! Gimme, gimme, gimme!
Yet again we hear the sound effect of someone being clubbed over the head with a crowbar and dragged from the room. And yet again a new voice continues with the voice-over narration as more fuzzy images of the original movies appear on screen.
VOICE-OVER: These DVDs are available in a limited release for a limited time with limited quality, so pre-order now at starwars.com! And on September 12th sit back, relax, grab you binoculars and squint at the magic of the original Star Wars on DVD!
DISCLAIMER: Any rebroadcast or coping of this commercial is punishable by tar and feathering.
Big, bold letters begin to appear on screen.
IN 1977...
...ONE FILM CAPTURED THE WORLD’S IMAGINATION...
...THIS SEPTEMBER...
...IT’S BACK!
The Star Wars logo triumphantly appears onscreen accompanied by the familiar force fanfare blasting through the speakers. Shots from the original unaltered movies begin to appear on screen. But since the commercial is in anamorphic widescreen and the movies are not, the screenshots from the new DVDs look ridiculously small and blurry and are surrounded by resolution robbing black bars.
...ON SEPTEMBER 12TH...
...SEE THE ORIGINAL STAR WARS...
...AS YOU FIRST SAW THEM...
...ON LASERDISC IN 1993.
Sound effect of the needle being violently yanked off a record player. Shot of an ewok tilting his head back and forth in confusion.
VOICE-OVER: Yes, that’s right. Due to overwhelming fan demand, LucasFilm is proud to provide your chance to see Star Wars as it originally appeared on Laserdisc. After an extensive search of the LucasFilm archives...
Shot of a pile of dusty old film reels entitled Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi mixed in with rotten banana peels and empty soda cans.
VOICE-OVER: ...it was found that only the laserdisc masters had survived and most of the original film prints had deteriorated beyond repair...
Slow pan-up from the pile of dusty old film reels to reveal George Lucas standing above the pile. He gives the camera a wink and a nod then whips out a flame-thrower and promptly torches the pile.
VOICE-OVER: ...due to, uh, natural causes.
Shot of Lucas looking up from the still smoking pile of ash that used to be original film prints of the movies, he looks in the camera and gives a big smile and thumbs-up.
VOICE-OVER: The original movies you all loved so much will be included as bonus material to the 2004 Special Editions, since it seems this is the only way to get you mangy pack of defiant ingrates to buy Lucas’ ultimate vision for Star Wars, you make me sick, you bunch of stinkin’ bottom feeders. Why I oughta---
Sound effect of someone being clubbed over the head with a crowbar and dragged from the room. A new and different voice continues with the voice-over narration. Tiny, grainy screenshots from the new DVDs continue to roll on screen.
VOICE-OVER: That’s right, don’t miss your chance to yet again buy the 2004 versions. And since this release includes leftover, unsold copies of the 2004 Special Editions and shoddy letterbox transfers of the original editions from laserdisc, the only money we spent was hiring a three-legged, drunk and disgruntled goat to photoshop the cover art. Yes, LucasFilm is the only company capable of releasing a DVD set miles below industry standard and still have you pathetic nerds pawning your pocket protectors and calculator watches to crawl back and beg for more Star Wars! BWAHAHAHAHAHA---
Again we hear the sound effect of someone being clubbed over the head with a crowbar and dragged from the room. And again a new and different voice continues with the voice-over narration. Barely visible screenshots of the Han shooting first and Death Star explosion minus Stargate ring occupy roughly 50% of the screen
VOICE-OVER: Money, money, money! Gimme, gimme, gimme!
Yet again we hear the sound effect of someone being clubbed over the head with a crowbar and dragged from the room. And yet again a new voice continues with the voice-over narration as more fuzzy images of the original movies appear on screen.
VOICE-OVER: These DVDs are available in a limited release for a limited time with limited quality, so pre-order now at starwars.com! And on September 12th sit back, relax, grab you binoculars and squint at the magic of the original Star Wars on DVD!
DISCLAIMER: Any rebroadcast or coping of this commercial is punishable by tar and feathering.
05-25-06 | 01:10 PM
#1095
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From: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City)
I couldn't think of the word when I was writing my previous post, but I think it's pretty freakin' condescending and glib (to quote my buddy Tommy C)..
05-25-06 | 01:49 PM
#1097
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by rennervision
Whether Greedo and Jabba's subtitles will be in the bottom black bar, so you can't read them if you enlarge the image.
05-25-06 | 02:01 PM
#1099
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Speaking of "morons", I keep hoping that just like they accidentally reversed John Williams' score in the 2004 edition, they will accidentally make this one anamorphic.
05-25-06 | 02:12 PM
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From: Tennessee
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
No reason to assume that...unless they're total morons.
Well, I think that they have already proven that.
If the only “bonus feature” is the original edition of the film, then I am not sure a dual-layer disc will be needed. I am no expert, but how much space will be needed to accommodate the data from a mere laserdisc transfer?
...