I should've know that you only have a single website that you supposedly read to base your assertions on....
Ridiculous.

Interesting enough, I just found out Lucas actually went so far as to make Technicolor prints of STAR WARS, which are still in existence today. He has one tucked away in the Lucasfilm archives and another is in the Film Archives of the North Carolina School of the Arts Film School.

That takes the wind out of your argument right there. Even assuming the prints on the other stock were godawful, he'd still have the Technicolor prints to use as a color reference if he ever wanted to release the unaltered set.

"Not in existence anymore" my ass.

Actually, I was an employee of the Film Archives at the North Carolina School of the Arts Film School, and I based my ascertations on what I learned there. It's the largest privately owned film archive in the country, and the owner is a man named Ray Regis, who told me as much.. . I asked you guys to cite sources also, that's why I put up that link.

I don't know which is more annoying... you running with concepts you're not sharp enough to grasp, or that pansy ass smiley.

Woah - somebody's arrogance knob goes all the way up to 11. So. . . . I think I'm done with you, sir.

But the originals prints are in piss poor shape. But never heard about him creating Technicolor prints. Haven't seen or read where he has.

Terrell:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Technicolor

Towards the bottom of the page it mentions George Lucas's dye-transfer print of STAR WARS. Apparently, it was used as a color reference for the 1997 restoration that we all love so much.

So the question is why can't this same print be used to restore another release, the classic release? It would be expensive, but it could clearly be done.

I don't think cost is the issue here. We all know they'd make their money back. I stand by my conclusion that GL is trying to milk us for as much as possible.

Lucas is the master businessman. Although it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was telling the truth and we never saw the originals again.

Terrell - I seriously doubt anyone is THAT outraged about those things. (I'm sure some purists wouldn't want a different Emperor in ESB, but I could forgive that one if it was the only alteration.) And you can't even see matte lines on my THX remastered laserdiscs of the OT, so that's a moot point.

You must be forgetting about all the other things that has everyone else upset: CGI dewbacks that look out of place in a 1977 film. A CGI mini-Jabba which I assume had access to Trimspa. Scenes at Mos Eisley that originally focused on dialogue and storytelling, now have distracting droids flying around as if to say, "Hey everybody! Look what we can now do with CGI!" A guest appearance of a young Hayden Christensen beside an old Alec Guinness. And so on, and so on.

Why is it the greatest movies of all time from Gone with the Wind to Casablanca to E.T. can all be released with pristine transfers preserving the original version, but somehow Star Wars fans are not allowed to want this? We are not supposed to be outraged when the greatest movie phenomenon of our time will not be preserved and seen again in its true form?

Well for one, all this talk about Technicolor and all whatever else, gave me this idea that if they were to do a full Lowry restoration on the original prints, you would see a lot of the imperfections that haven't been notiable in previous video releases.

And example, Luke's Landspeeder. In the scene where they enter Mos Eisley, the original shot had the speeder roll in on wheels and they "smudged" the print to "hide" the wheels. In the SE, they CG corrected this shot. Having the Landspeeder float into Mos Eisley as it should. Lowry restoration of this on the original would look terrible and hokey.

Well Mike, I'd love to have the old speeder version on DVD. That's the original version of Star Wars, with all of its warts and all of its beauty.

The problem is that even on shots where there was nothing wrong, Lucas tinkers. And that's fine. But I don't understand the people that think we shouldn't be *allowed* to see the original, or that we should pretend the film we've known and loved for the past nearly 30 years never existed.

The speeder is a good example of the unneeded changes. The blurring, shimering version was just fine. It just looked like some kind of interaction between the speeder and the ground it was travelling over. Made sense, there's some sort of technology I don't understand repelling the ground.

I don't remember anyone around me in the theatre in '77 having any problems with it.

Not that I care that much that he wanted to "fix" it. Simple clean ups of special effects, removing wires etc, are fine. It's the changes in plot, etc, that are the sticking point.

In the 97 SE's, there was not one single alteration to the plot of the films. I think some of the movie snobs need to find a dictionary and look up "plot" and see what it means.

If wanting the original versions (of any movie, especially classics) released in the stanard home video format (VHS and Laserdisc are no longer), makes me a snob, so be it. But I don't think it does.

And I will disagree with you regarding plot points. Plenty of plot points were changed.
Han shooting Greedo is the biggest. Perhaps its not the biggest plot point, but it is one.

I actually will buy these new special editions and actually do hope they make even more updates to them, like inserting Ian and Hayden.

I won't buy original 77-83 versions of the movies on DVD if they are released later. It would have been nice to have them both in the same set, but if I really want to watch the movies with inferior effects, I can watch them on inferior VHS tapes. What's the difference? I may transfer them to DVD-r for longevity, but there is no way I would buy the original versions again. I never had an LD player and I skipped over the THX Faces versions because I could care less about different sounds. Don't have any surround stuff and don't need it. TV sound is good enough for me. Before I bought the hologram boxset, all I had was recorded from HBO versions. I now have the widescreen hologram boxset and the 1997 SE widescreen versions on VHS.

In the original ESB Luke made the decision to kill himself rather than be tempted to join Vader. That moment in the film was the turning point of Luke from padawan to Jedi. He stoically decided to fall to his death.

It was a powerful scene.

In the SE version, he slips and screams like a girl on his way down. Not so powerful.

It changes the Luke character considerably, and cheapens the scene.

Who said you are not *allowed*?

Carrying this a bit to far?

Go buy the damn LaserDisc or VHS.

The LaserDisc and VHS are no longer available.

And how exactly are you allowed to see the original if it is not made available for sale or performance?

Really? Could have fooled me.

What about this?

Or
this, this, this, this, this, this, and this?

Yup, looks like those Star Wars laserdiscs are really hard to find. . . . .

I think this sums up this side of the argument perfectly. To some, films are obviously just another form of disposable entertainment, and when they cease to be "cutting edge" they are worthless to these people. If you ask me, this is a problem with American audiences in general, and the reason why we've been deluged with remake and TV spinoff movies so much lately. Rather than honoring a film's place in cinema history, people think they have to "re-do it" or "throw on another coat of paint" in order to keep it in the public's favor.

If you can't see how this hinders the creative growth of the medium, you're either shortsighted or just plain stupid.

Great. We can buy them used from collectors. By that rationale, Action comics #1 is still readily available to buy, too. All you need is a few hundred grand. I believe jough's point was that they aren't offered in retail stores anymore, in an up to date format.

Dude, I don't even own an LD or VHS player anymore.

So to say "go buy the LD" is pointless. I'm not going to buy an antiquated piece of used equipment just to see something that should be available on DVD.

And as was pointed out above, pretty much anything that was EVER mass produced can be found via eBay.

I assume you will not buy any DVDs if there's an LD available, right? Because if LD is good enough for you, that's great, but I prefer the better quality of DVD and would like to buy the movies I watch on the best currently available yet still convenient media.

And yes, I'm aware that right now D-VHS is the best quality format available, but it's stillborn format that's overpriced and is tape-based, losing the advancements of a disc-based system.

So you're telling me that you cant tell the difference between a 5 dollar laserdisc from the last 10 years and a 100K$$ comic printed 75 years ago?

Riiiiiiiight.

If the movie will never be release on DVD and I want the movie, then yes, I get the Laser. The Gorgio Moroder version of Metropolis? It'll never see the light of day on DVD, so yeah, I got that version. The Han-Shoots-First version of Star Wars? Yup, the SEs will join them on my shelf come this September.

It's not my fault that you chose to ignore a cheap, reasonably easy to find, and perfectly acceptable alternative to the "bastardized" versions.

Guys, you are all missing the point.

Lucas does not consider the "OT" to be his finished movies. He is not going to release them to make all of you happy.

You can whine and moan and bitch all you want, but the fact is you don't own the movies: he does. And he can do whatever he damn well pleases with them, and YOU can do whatever you damn well please when it comes to watching them/buying them.

If you want the OT so bad, don't buy the DVDs. If enough people do that, maybe he'll change his mind. If the DVD breaks all records (which it will) then why in the WORLD would he go back and release the versions you want to see. Just to make some internet posters happy?

Of course one is more expensive, but you're missing the point entirely. I think jough expressed it more eloquently when he said we shouldn't have to buy a piece of used equipment to see something that should be on DVD. Surely you have enough sense to see that it's only a matter of time before formats like laserdisc and VHS become utterly obsolete. Old discs/tapes will be hard to come by, as will functional hardware to play them on. Think 8-tracks. Maybe once that happens you'll understand my earlier analogy.

Oh, I have no illusions. I realize Uncle George wouldn't piss on me if I was burning in flames. But won't he release these horrible unfinished travesties to take our dollars, if for no other reason? Hell, they release lengthy documentaries chronicling the bluescreen process where they show our heroes hanging from visible wires and fighting with pretend lightsabers. Can't they release the originals as STAR WARS: FIRST PASS EDITION or something, just to satisfy us? My money's green, ain't it?

Again, why? The man doesn't need money.

The point being, of course, that there's what - maybe a thousand Action Comics #1s in the world. With Star Wars discs, you cant swing a dead cat at a used store without hitting one.

Harder to come by? Lets look at another obsolete medium - records. Name any big album you care to - Abby Road, Dark Side of the Moon, Thriller, whatever. I'll bet you 5 bucks that I can turn up 3 copys with a day of looking at used stores and pawn shops.

But . . . records havent been produced (in large quantities for the consumer market) for at least 15 years. And yet, finding an album is easy as pie. Why should Lasers be any diffrent?

With just the slightest effort and a very small outlay of cash on your part (the you being the Anti-SE crowd, and not specificly Bird Jenkins) you could have the old trilogy you so badly want.

Guess you guys dont want them that much.