Y'know I can understand people speaking on the importance of the voice actors. I look at how important I think Kevin Conroy & Mark Hamill are to Batman the Animated series, and think a dubbed japanese version wouldn't do the characters justice. I would really be interested in hearing an ep or two dubbed in any language.

That being said I do not think that a dubbing automatically makes something bad. If there is such a thing as a perfect dub(I know there isn't, but for the argument), some people who are anti-dubbing would still probably say it was terrible.

I am a little confused though. Are those of you who are opposed to dubbing that way because of the changes made? Or because the American voice actors aren't up to snuff?

I always prefer subtitles on anime or any foreign film. There is more to it than just communicating the words; when you change the language you lose the flavor of the culture.

I'll have to stick on my dub of Excel Saga now, because I cannot imagine it could possibly be as funny or as good as hearing it in Japanese.

I have been reading subtitles for so long that it doesn't distract me at all. I can have the line of text read before the words are even out of the actor's mouth. I don't miss anything.

All that said, I won't avoid a dub if that's the way it's being released theatrically, such as was done here for Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke. It's a trade-off; I like to see them on the big screen. The professional dubs are also of a much higher quality than your average video release.

I like the option of both subs and dubs. Dubbed version first, then the subbed version. I really hate subs, I want to see the film, not read a book.

I voted for watching both versions, although I'm stuck somewhere in the middle of watching both (Lain, Excel Saga), watching which one's better (Cowboy Bebop's dubs) and prefering dubs, especially of ADV titles w/ Monica Rial, Kira Vincent-Davis, Hilary Haag and others.

I don't really watch anime, but the few times I did, I just listen to the movies in Japanese

the anime that I've watched, I don't mind either, but prefer subs

I'll give ADV dubs a chance because "Excel Saga" had a dub that was 48 times funnier than the Japanese track and subs. I honestly doubt Pedro would be anywhere near as funny in Japanese.

However i cannot tolerate when any "southern" accent is used. As soon as i hear any type of southern accent...BAM! its Japanese language track only.

First off - I noticed that in the poll, two of the items are quite similar.
I like to watch both versions.
I watch whichever is better.

Combined, this choice gets 2nd place... as it should. Just wanted to say that (didn't read the entire thread though, so someone might've beat me to it).

I watch foreign movies subbed because the actor I see is also the one speaking and dubbed voices over human lip movement is something that won't match up - and if they try to match it up, it's bad. I watch anime both dubbed and subbed and don't really care either way. I often start out with the dub and subs both on - if there's a huge difference in the first 10 minutes and the dub is crappy, I'll switch to the original language.

I don't care because anime characters mouths are typically just going "YAP YAP YAP YAP YAP" so the feature can be localized for various countries. The creators expect for their feature to be localized all over the world... much like older films from Hong Kong where they didn't bother to record live sound or even use the original actors to do the voices sometimes. HK films had (have) to be in 2 languages anyway since people in China speak either Mandarin or Cantonese (or both).

Still - even with older HK cinema, I much prefer subtitles and original language option of whatever the bulk of the cast is speaking... that way the sounds match the mouths. With Anime, all voices of all languages match the mouths, so it doesn't matter. They aren't actors, they're cartoon characters... artwork... drawings. Voice actors give them voices. It's not some sacred "original language" thing for pete sake. There's a huge difference between animated films and live-action films where sub vs. dub is concerned.

I agree with some of the posters here who don't see why they should have to listen to what is essentially gibberish to their ears when they could just as easily listen to it in their own language. I mean looking at it in reverse - if someone from France watched The Simpsons in French dub, they would be missing out on the great English voice talents of that show... however, they really would miss out on the voice talents anyway except for some of the simple things like "Doh!" or "Aye Carumba" because it's not their first language. Perhaps they are familiar with the voices being used in the French version and can identify with them better and perhaps the show has a different meaning for them. Well that's great. More power to em.

I also agree with some of the posters who claim that most of the American dub actors suck ass... well, it's a good thing most anime doesn't require alot of talent to voice. Still - alot of the dubs I've listened to have been terrible. For that matter, alot of the subs I've read have been bad. And for that matter - alot of original language tracks have kinda sucked (in terms of annoying voices). I'm just happy there's usually a choice.

Just like you don't get it - I don't get why so many people are so hardcore about subs only with Anime in particular since it's created to be exported and localized for different countries. That said - anyone can watch Anime however they want... I'm not gonna try to change anyone's mind about their own habits.

Trigger,

I agree that when it comes to the voice-overs matching up to lip motion, it doesn't really make a difference when it comes to Anime. But again, I point to the fact that with some phrases or concepts there is no good translation of the original language into the export dub. In that sense, it is far preferrable (for me) to read the literal translation (which sometimes comes with additional subtitle explainations) accompanied by the original Japanese voice track in order to stay as close to the original intended dialogue/meanings as possible. Because in the end, when the script is translated into conversational English, the storyline and meanings are skewed.

As someone who watches a lot of HK cinema, I'm sure you've come across numerous instances where there are just no good translations of certain Chinese concepts. An example of this being the concept of "Wu Xia" / "Wu Ling" in the martial arts / fantasy genre. Even the term "Si Fu", which most people who watch the genre have been exposed to, doesn't directly translate as "Master." Indeed, the Chinese term carries more of a Master/Teacher meaning, who imparts knowledge and skills to his/her students/disciples. The same is true for many Japanese concepts and phrases.

One also should consider the fact that the majority of Anime are in fact set in Japan. For the sake of "realism," how believable would it be for everyone in Japan to be speaking English? If dubbing were truly superior or equal to subbing, why did Quentin Tarantino choose the subbing route during the Anime sequence in Kill Bill v. 1? Oren Ishii, in fact, speaks perfect English, and Tarantino could have easily dubbed the Anime in English, but he didn't. Why? Because the scene took place in Japan, with Japanese Yakuza, who wielded Japanese swords, and spoke their native language of... Japanese.

Still, as always, I appreciate and respect your opinions on the matter. In this case, I disagree, which doesn't happen too often.





-NHN

To Trigger:

Actually, most anime is still created for the Japanese market, and any exporting is simply icing.

Anime in America has grown exponentially in the past couple of years, however; and the Japanese are thinking more and more of foreign markets. Recently, there have even been shows that were financed in part by American anime companies, such as Pioneer (Geneon) USA.

You both bring up interesting points...

NoxHaveN - you're absolutely right about cultural terms that don't translate well... however, they often don't translate well in the subs either. It's nice when a subtitle goes into extra explaination, but that's not so common (among my collection anyway)... it's more the exception than the rule. Even so - the subtitles are often more literally accurate, as I mentioned even in my first post. I even admitted that quite often the dub is so far detached from the sub that I simply go with the subs. But with cultural concepts that don't translate, sometimes it's acceptable to simply convert it to a familiar cultural concept for the dub language natives. Watching anime shouldn't require an anthropology degree, and someone just getting into it should be able to relate to it in their own way. For me watching HK subs and I see the Si Fu example, I just know what it means, so I can replace "master" with the concept. Someone without that background knowledge can come away from reading that knowing in their own cultural terms basically what type of respect was just paid.

I mean - part of the problem here is that some people deny that there are any good dubs. I think there are. I'd say more often than not, the subs are what I end up choosing - but my feelings about dubbing (well documented on this forum dating back a few years now) are that it's acceptable for those who prefer listening to reading or for whatever reason and that dubs are acceptable for me.

It's nice to have the option of both and I fully support that. It would be really easy if we all grew up the same way in the same country and spoke the same language, but we've all had vastly different experiences and there's really no one single definitive answer that will be best for everyone.

littlefuzzy - I might have to take your word for it on that one because I had a different impression of the Anime scene, but I don't have any proof to support it... my impression was that Anime has been a fairly big export for Japan - much like their video game industry - for decades and that they quite often created them with localization in mind. I know they do it for HK films.

And the whole "yap yap yap yap yap" of the mouths you could argue that it was simply done that way because it's easy and cheaper... which is true for many Anime as they are to be done quickly and cheaply. However, there are several higher budget Anime with incredible animation otherwise, but the mouths still go "yap yap yap". So I don't know. I agree that Anime has seen a big growth spurt in the past few years, but I would argue that the exponential growth started much earlier than a few years ago.


Bottom line is - I do have much respect for the subs and original language. However, my feelings are certainly stronger with live-action films than with Anime. While I'm fairly into Anime and have been for years, I guess I just don't respect it to the same degree as some of you do and I still see it as a 'cartoon'. A really really good cartoon with brilliant stories and character developments, but still just a cartoon. The difference would be the actors versus drawings. The physical visual and audible performance versus simply voice acting. I hope that doesn't kill anyone's perception of me. I do respect and love Anime... and the more accessible it is, the more people can enjoy it and the more they can make. Everybody wins.

It all depends on which was made for the US. 99% of the time, anime subs are the way to go. But, that other 1% of the time, there is a movie that has just as good dubs (Myazaki DVDs come to mind).

99% of the time I watch anime subbed. There are some occaisons I do watch the dub with Trigun and Cowboy Bebop but that's about it. I hardly even check the dub track any more.

Well, you should, because the English dubs are improving in a big way.

Many English dubs are being made at the same time as the Japanese language tracks because the US/English speaking market is so big these days.

Don't discount dubs and don't think they are the "secondary language" track. This might have been the case 5yrs ago, but not anymore.

I only recently started watching anime, and generally watch the dubbed version with subtitles on. I use the dub because typically I am doing work and am not able to devote all of my attention to the screen. However, before turning on the dub, I watch at least a portion in the original language so that I get a feel for the characters voices. With Cowboy Bebop (which I am currently watching) I don't really mind the dub at all. On Beserk I thought the subs were clearer, but still had the dub on most of the time as my attention was split (an unfortunate necessity) while viewing.

I cannot stand to watch dubbed versions of live action movies. Ever since I rented La Femme Nikita on VHS at the local rental store (many many years ago) and got the dubbed version. I couldn't even watch more than 15 minutes because it gave me a headache (and it's a great movie). I also remember being very bothered with the singing on Don't cry for me Argentina. I believe these vocals were recorded separately from filming the scene and I felt they were a little off. The dub on anime doesn't bother me as much, because as I said earlier, I am not always focused entirely on the picture, but also because I think animated characters never fit the dialogue perfectly and do not typically show the same range of movement in there mouths. Therefore it seems somehow more acceptable.

This whole thread reminds me of something I've seen done in Poland for theatrical releases of some American films and, I assume, other 'foreign' releases. Rather than the traditional dubbing of the film, they use a lectur. Basically a person who translates the dialogue over the original language track. As I know it, films use a single lectur who translates the dialogue for all characters without any emotion at all. Although I cannot be sure, I think the same lectur is used very often for the voiceovers so that he becomes a familiar voice to the viewer. I assume this same practice is common in other countries as well.

Now my question is: Is this the best of both worlds? The original language track is audible so the viewer can gauge emotion etc., but there is no need to read subtitles as they are spoken aloud. I personally did not enjoy this as I speak no Polish and would have preferred solely the original English track. I also do not understand Polish so I am unable to gauge whether the lectur translated the dialogue accurately. I have never seen a movie that uses this method with an English speaking lectur though I imagine I would not like it. All in all though it is rather similar to how they translate foreign language interviews on the news which I am certainly used to. So who knows. Just another option I thought I'd thrrow out for discussion.

Both...at different viewings of course. I guess both subbed and dubbed have their own strengths. Dubbed usually shows some smoothness in the context and subbed the accuracy of the context.

Subs