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Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Old 08-10-21, 10:08 AM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by Timber
Even still, how much does the LCS make on a TPB? Seems to be more of an Amazon/Bookstore?
TPBs are one of the highest selling items at LCS. In my former store, back issues were #1, TPBs second and new releases third. We made a killing on TPB.

Still, I don't understand your question. Snyder is going to release his series as weekly floppies through Dark Horse. Tynion could have done the same, but instead is releasing his print books directly on Substack but you can only get them if you sign up for a higher tier subscription.
Old 08-10-21, 12:18 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
TBH, I'm not a fan of Substack.

Just seems like a way for people to overcharge for their stupid e-mail newsletters they used to send out for free.

I'll be surprised if Substack is still around in a few years. They'll either go tits-up, or get devoured by someone like Facebook or Google. As such, I wouldn't count on any content on Substack to be permanent.
It definitely feels like a startup that is going to burn through money like crazy until it crashes. Good on Tynion and others for getting that bag, but it's not any kind of Image-like revolution because I think they get upfront money and so there's little risk to them if this goes completely Quibi eventually because they can take all their content with them.

The Guardian has several articles critical of substack:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...turned-poacher

The big news is that BleedingCool is reporting Hickman is also joining and may be leaving X-men.

Old 08-10-21, 04:00 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by Red Hood
Tynion can make a living too but in the process of sticking it to the Big 2, he's also sticking it to LCS who have championed his independent books for the past 3-5 years. For people like Tynion, LCS were the ones that put him on the map. Now, he's going to the big money with Substack and from my understanding, he isn't releasing any of those books to the LCS in print. This is the opposite of what Scott Snyder is doing, which is to release digital first through Substack and then in-print through Dark Horse.
I get why this is frustrating for LCS owners, but the world is moving towards a direct to consumer model. It's happening in almost every industry. I'm not going to crush a guy because someone is paying him a lot of money to do what he loves with complete creative freedom.

And surely the quality of Tynion's writing had more to do with his success than LCS's pushing his work. Not saying the LCS's had nothing to do with it, but it's not like they were simply doing it out of the kindness of their own hearts. The LCS's are trying to make money too. And how much does a creator owned title really move the needle these days? I was under the impression that unless we're talking about a Walking Dead or Saga, then not much.
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Old 08-10-21, 09:05 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by rocket1312
I get why this is frustrating for LCS owners, but the world is moving towards a direct to consumer model. It's happening in almost every industry. I'm not going to crush a guy because someone is paying him a lot of money to do what he loves with complete creative freedom.

And surely the quality of Tynion's writing had more to do with his success than LCS's pushing his work. Not saying the LCS's had nothing to do with it, but it's not like they were simply doing it out of the kindness of their own hearts. The LCS's are trying to make money too. And how much does a creator owned title really move the needle these days? I was under the impression that unless we're talking about a Walking Dead or Saga, then not much.
Comics in general is a product that doesn’t completely work with a direct to consumer business model. As many creators have learned through their Kickstarters, the work that it takes to put a single issue out is overwhelming. Just the matter of printing and distributing the book complicates everything when the creator wants to do this by himself. That’s why many comic book based Kickstarter fails.

As for Tynion, he is the creator of one of the books that has moved the needled the most over the past 2 years ala Walking Dead and Saga. Tynion’s Something is Killing the Children has basically put Boom studios on the map. His Indy book has been consistently one of the highest selling ones in the industry. His most recent creator owned book, The Nice House on the Lake is now in its third print due to the first 2 prints selling out immediately. Still, in a crowded market at the shelves, the LCS saw how great SIKTC was and decided to push it to customers who aren’t usually into horror or indies and made Tynion a brand name in the industry. I don’t blame him for going for the money, but not having a plan to distribute these new books through the LCS is a kick in the balls to them
Old 08-11-21, 07:30 AM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Which is maybe why he doesn't have plans in place for a printed comic right now? And if one writer's new creator owned title not getting printed makes that much of a difference for an LCS, then maybe that's the model that's not working. Look, I have sympathy for the small business owners, but again, I'm not going to crush a guy for doing what he loves and trying something new.

Tynion also explained that the work he's currently planning for the sub goes away from the traditional comics model and that it doesn't make sense for a monthly printed comic. The projects that do make sense for a monthly probably will get printed, he just hasn't figured it out yet because he's not there. I mean it's possible he's saying all this only because the reaction from some was so negative, but I'll take him at his word.
Old 08-11-21, 11:32 AM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

So the plan is to cash the check then figure it out

And this gem from Snyder. Talk about naive.

MACDONALD: That said, Substack is a very controversial platform, because they do also host a lot of people who are very transphobic and have other bigoted opinions. People on Twitter are already saying they can’t support it.

SNYDER: We had many conversations about it, and ultimately, I think we felt comfortable with it because we’re trying to make something better. What we’re trying to do is build a place over here where we can have substantive conversations, where we can fund new creators, where we can do this in a way that we believe in.
Translation: "We talked about it, and the paychecks are so large our principles can be bought"
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Old 08-11-21, 01:14 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

"people on Twitter"

Twitter, now there's a platform I can get behind. I've never seen anyone with controversial or distasteful opinions use Twitter.

I wonder what all the people on Twitter would think about all the crap that gets printed at the very same printing presses that produce their comics?
Old 08-11-21, 02:18 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

One problem I can foresee with the Substack model is that history has shown that if you pre-pay comic book creators, it's difficult to get the work out of them.

I'm not trying to cast aspersions of Tynion or Snyder (I really don't know much about either one of them or their work ethics), but I know there have been some problems with high profile Kickstarter projects, what happened to Kevin Eastman with Tundra when he tried to use a book publishing model that paid out advances, and the people who paid in advance for art commissions from "pros" and ended up waiting years to get shitty drawings.

But I suspect that the more comic books Substack starts publishing on this subscription model, you're going to be seeing a lot of writers and artists who, after promising monthly books, start falling behind the schedule, and you end up paying $5 or $7 or $10 a month for a bunch of messages like "Still working on it! It's going to be great when it comes out next month! Promise! Worth the wait!"
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Old 08-12-21, 03:20 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by rocket1312
"people on Twitter"

Twitter, now there's a platform I can get behind. I've never seen anyone with controversial or distasteful opinions use Twitter.

I wonder what all the people on Twitter would think about all the crap that gets printed at the very same printing presses that produce their comics?
You are comparing apples and oranges. The creators don't work for the printing press, they hire them to print their comics. The comic creators work work for Substack now. If you want to compare Substack to something, compare it another comic book publisher who hires or works with racist assholes, like Dynamite.

I've been speaking with a lot of creators over the last day or so and they all agree that this is a cash grab and one that is destined to fail as they have no plan other than charging a monthly subscription fee as expensive as movie streaming site for the ability to access 1 digital comic book. People aren't going to pay for that, specially when there are companies like Marvel, DC and Comixology that offer much better deals for thousands of comics. And contrary to the Image revolution, these creators are just benefiting themselves, not the industry as a whole. When Image launched, it benefited the entire industry, from the distributors to the LCS.

A lot of people are comparing this to QUIBI, an idea that sounded horrible to everyone except the head honchos. Creators are going to say yes to the cash because it's a lot up front, it has no repercussions for them if it fails and they can jump back to other publisher when this goes to shit.
Old 08-12-21, 03:30 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Ha, Quibi was the first thing I thought of (see my original post). The thought was that people just took the B pitches that got rejected by Netflix and co., chopped up their content into smaller pieces and put it on quibi with little risk to them. Like I said, good on the creators if they get more money, and even better if this somehow, some way becomes sustainable, but it's certainly not for me.

There's not even a promise of any kind that a set amount of content will be produced.
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Old 08-13-21, 11:39 AM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not remotely confident this will succeed. I honestly don't even really care. It's the backlash against the creators that irks me. I guess I just don't understand where these creators obligations to fans/shopowners/"the industry" begin and end. There was the one quote posted above from the shop owner who felt like he wasted all his time pushing Tynion's books. So is that guy going to give back all the money he made from those books? If Tynion stopped making comics and moved to Hollywood to start making movies because some studio dumped a pile of money on his doorstep, would he also be pissed? Are these same people going to stop selling/buying the Tynion books that still come through traditional distribution because he took money from Substack? If everyone's so convinced this venture is going to fail, why worry about it at all? It's seems everyone's always on the side of creators rights until it affects them.
Old 08-13-21, 12:41 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

Comic fans just like to complain (well at least the vocal ones) and I count myself as one of them. Any possible disruption to the status quo will be met with resistance. Also see: wrestling fans.

Comic shop owners understandably care about the bottom line and the sustainability of their business. I don't think they overall care that much about creators rights. If comic prices all raised a dollar and that dollar was going directly to the creator, I think we'd get a ton of complaining anyway.

The bottom line is these people like the authors and want comics works by these authors done on a regular basis in a format they're familiar with. I think this experiment will fail but I also understand not liking a creator's status being up in limbo like this (if you're a big fan of them). Like when Travis Charest took off to go work on Metabarons or whatever overseas instead of traditional superhero comics, I was kinda bummed.
Old 08-15-21, 04:51 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

That's a lot of money

Old 08-16-21, 05:35 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Bendis is moving his creator owned stuff for the third time. This time to Dark Horse. Good for Dark Horse, though for me the bloom is off the rose after his runs on Legion and Superman.
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Old 08-16-21, 08:04 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by RonG617
Bendis is moving his creator owned stuff for the third time. This time to Dark Horse. Good for Dark Horse, though for me the bloom is off the rose after his runs on Legion and Superman.
Im almost certain that hes going back to Marvel next year. His run at DC has been mediocre at best and he has the ability to go back to Marvel and work on Jessica Jones. He will still work at DC in some capacity as the Naomi tv series will hit CW in 2022
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Old 08-16-21, 08:08 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Anyone know what this teaser is all about

Old 08-16-21, 08:27 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Old 08-17-21, 08:27 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Two more big names joining Substack

Old 08-18-21, 01:18 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Very first? Maybe I missed the joke?
Old 08-19-21, 04:35 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Old 09-12-21, 08:19 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Sad day as one of the most important independent studios ever has dissolved and it’s closing doors. After the purchase of TMNT by Viacom, Mirage was allowed to continue making TMNT books, which were done by Peter Laird. That series was really good and the last 5 issues are ridiculously hard to find as they were limited to 1000 copies.



Old 09-13-21, 03:04 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Too bad for them. First indie comics company I ever heard of as a kid reading just DC and Marvel. The big entertainment companies will gobble up anything they can milk for some money.
Old 09-13-21, 03:46 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by RonG617
Too bad for them. First indie comics company I ever heard of as a kid reading just DC and Marvel. The big entertainment companies will gobble up anything they can milk for some money.
In this case, I don't mind it that much. Yes,it's sad Mirage closed its doors, but they did it in their own terms, with one of the co-creators becoming a millionaire in the process. I believe Eastman has made peace with some of the bad decisions he made then and he still making good money as consultant for IDW and Nickelodeon, but I'm pretty sure he wishes that the millions were split between him and Laird.

Mirage made a huge impact in the comic book world at a time where it was believed that only stuff from Marvel, DC and Archie could make funny books. Not only did Kevin and Peter championed the rise of creator owned books, but they also opened the doors to everyone who wanted to create comics for a living.
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Old 09-13-21, 04:00 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Yeah, it's been some time since they licensed out TMNT to even other comic companies (was Archie the first?), so it's not like there was all that much to miss besides the memories of one of the first successful indy publications.

Speaking of, whatever happened to Dave Sim?
Old 09-13-21, 07:17 PM
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Re: Image, IDW, Dark Horse & Indies 2021 Thread

Originally Posted by fujishig
Speaking of, whatever happened to Dave Sim?
Dave Sim has become somewhat of a pariah in the industry. I don't know if it was his ex-wife or someone in his family that said that Sim must be somewhere in the autistic spectrum. He's socially inept, has horrible views on women, borderline paralleling the views of CG members, and in the late 90's to the early 2000's, he said reprehensible shit about Jeff Smith's wife that made people cringe and feel disgusted by him. He has been releasing Cerebus one-shots over the past 5 years, all of them parodies of well known comic books or storylines. The books are basically outdated ideas of fandom and society in general, so basically those buying it are his loyal fans.

Due to his strange persona, I don't think he's invited to many conventions, so he's basically been pushed out of the industry per se.

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