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DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Old 09-30-18, 04:56 PM
  #351  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Wait, Superman and Lois are married again?
I thought they dissolved that after The New 52, with Superman and Wonder Woman being an item.

Oh, wait. That Superman, with the collared costume died, so we got back the original, right?

Why is it so hard for them to figure this stuff out?
They only want ONE Flash, right? To keep things simple, and have one identity for all the various media platforms (comics, TV, video games, film).
And to not be saddled with extra explanations for their origins. To know Wally's origin you have to explain Barry's.
I get that too. It's easier to take things back to the basics.

But damn, if you don't want Wally making Barry look old, or confusing new fans, just have Wally lose his speed powers and live life somewhere as a normal family man, off panel.
Or have him go into the future via the Speedforce, so we only focus on Barry Allen as the Flash.
Or if the kids are a problem, have the Speedforce go out of wack for Wally and somehow his life happens in reverse, so their not born yet.

I mean, find a new way to write out these characters aside from the super cliched kill-them-off-and-hype-it-up.
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Old 10-01-18, 11:50 AM
  #352  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Wait, Superman and Lois are married again?
I thought they dissolved that after The New 52, with Superman and Wonder Woman being an item.

Oh, wait. That Superman, with the collared costume died, so we got back the original, right?

Why is it so hard for them to figure this stuff out?
They only want ONE Flash, right? To keep things simple, and have one identity for all the various media platforms (comics, TV, video games, film).
And to not be saddled with extra explanations for their origins. To know Wally's origin you have to explain Barry's.
I get that too. It's easier to take things back to the basics.

But damn, if you don't want Wally making Barry look old, or confusing new fans, just have Wally lose his speed powers and live life somewhere as a normal family man, off panel.
Or have him go into the future via the Speedforce, so we only focus on Barry Allen as the Flash.
Or if the kids are a problem, have the Speedforce go out of wack for Wally and somehow his life happens in reverse, so their not born yet.

I mean, find a new way to write out these characters aside from the super cliched kill-them-off-and-hype-it-up.
Honestly, I don't see much difference between sidelining a character, coming up with a convoluted plot to sideline or change the character, and just killing them off. This is comics, all of those are equally easy to get reversed. And from the comic publisher standpoint, there's a lot more value milking readers with a death issue.

I mean, I don't like it but I understand it. I really don't think the common person will get too confused, though, if you have Wally West be the heir apparent to Barry Allen, and he's still Barry Allen in movies or whatever. Mainly because the common person will avoid comics like the plague, and rightfully so. But also because comics in general are so convoluted that if you really want to make something that's accessible, just set it outside of continuity.
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Old 10-01-18, 02:14 PM
  #353  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Wait, Superman and Lois are married again?
I thought they dissolved that after The New 52, with Superman and Wonder Woman being an item.

Oh, wait. That Superman, with the collared costume died, so we got back the original, right?
Superman and Lois have been married for a few years since New 52 ended and now have a ten-year-old son.

The only thing that seems to have been added to the classic marriage continuity is that Superman did date Wonder Woman at some point before marrying Lois.
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Old 10-01-18, 02:40 PM
  #354  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Superman and Lois have been married for a few years since New 52 ended and now have a ten-year-old son.

The only thing that seems to have been added to the classic marriage continuity is that Superman did date Wonder Woman at some point before marrying Lois.
Wait, what? Isn't Superman a pre New 52 Superman, he dated a pre New 52 Wonder Woman?

Dang, even though I hate reboots, they really just need to do a clean one, which they never have, and every time they bring something from the old era it just further messes up continuity.
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Old 10-01-18, 03:51 PM
  #355  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Honestly, I don't see much difference between sidelining a character, coming up with a convoluted plot to sideline or change the character, and just killing them off. This is comics, all of those are equally easy to get reversed. And from the comic publisher standpoint, there's a lot more value milking readers with a death issue.
For me, it takes me out the story, if I know and see that anything can be undone, including death.
As a kid, these stories felt serious and "real." When someone died, or got married, you felt like it was this natural progression of life, a passage of time in these stories.
Then you get older, and you see characters being brought back from the dead for licensing purposes, time being undone so Spider-man can date different women, and it doesn't feel like a story anymore. Why am I reading a bunch of fan-fiction. I might as well imagine my own stories featuring these characters at this point.


I mean, I don't like it but I understand it. I really don't think the common person will get too confused, though, if you have Wally West be the heir apparent to Barry Allen, and he's still Barry Allen in movies or whatever. Mainly because the common person will avoid comics like the plague, and rightfully so. But also because comics in general are so convoluted that if you really want to make something that's accessible, just set it outside of continuity.
To be fair, it wouldn't matter if there were a new generation of younger readers replacing the older ones.
But the thing is, kids don't really read comics anymore, they play video games featuring these characters. So mainstream comics are meant for the 40+ crowd.

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Superman and Lois have been married for a few years since New 52 ended and now have a ten-year-old son.
Damn, that sounds like an even worse idea.
They never should have married off Superman. He's already looked at as the boring superhero, the oldest, and then they get him married.

I like the way Reed and Sue's marriage and having kids is portrayed. Spider-man's marriage was always fun to read, probably because Mary Jane was always a fun character and illustrated as looking very vivacious.
Superman finally settling down with Lois Lane seems wrong though.
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Old 10-01-18, 04:00 PM
  #356  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Here's the Super-Marriage Breakdown:

Pre-Flashpoint: Lois and Clark married.

New 52: Lois and Clark NOT married. Superman dates Wonder Woman.

Convergence: We find out that the married Lois and Clark survived the Flashpoint purge and existed on the Braniac-Telos planet under a dome. With Superman's powers gone for a year, he knocks up Lois. When the domes over their chunk of the DC breaks, Lois goes into labor. Flashpoint Batman delivers Jon Kent.

Later in the Convergence storyline, Superman helps Telos save the day. Don't ask me how. Convergence was a mess. Anyways, Telos send Clark, Lois and Jon back "home." When they get there, it's the day that Darkseid attacked the New 52 and the origin of the Justice League. Seeing that the world already has a Superman, Clark decides to retire and help Lois raise Jon (as detailed in Superman: Lois & Clark).

Clark would still do missions in his black Superman costume and had his own Fortress but pretty much, they kept hidden from the world. Then the New 52 Superman died and the OG Superman took his place to defend the world (DC Rebirth). New 52 Lois became Superwoman and died so OG Lois took her place at the Planet. Jon Kent was now 10 years old. Wonder Woman mourned her Superman but made friends with the Kent family.

In Superman Reborn, we find out that some force (Dr. Manhattan) SPLIT Superman in two during the formation of the New 52. The "wiser" version ended up on the Braniac-Telos planet. A younger version became the New 52 Superman. Pretty much Superman Red and Blue. Why did he do this? To weaken this universe's strongest character? I dunno. I'll bet Johns doesn't pick this thread up in Doomsday Clock.

Anyways, the two Supermen (and Lois') merge back together and become whole. And when they do that, the DC Rebirth continuity reforms. Chucks of the pre-Flashpoint era blurs with the New 52 era. Superman and Wonder Woman never dated (no more than the John Byrne-George Perez "date" in Action Comics #600). Superman died at Doomsday's hands but after he returned, he went into semi-retirement, knocked up Lois and raised Jon. The "Rebirth" Superman continues after that into the Bendis Superman currently ongoing. Oh yeah, and Jor-El is still alive. Presumably, Dr. Manhattan pulled him out right before Krypton exploded and showed him how shitty life is. Jor-El is trying to save Superman's family before Manhattan returns (The Oz Effect) and after failing, he invited Jon to learn what it's like to be a real Kryptonian. They took off with Lois so Bendis could right a solo Superman.

Last edited by The Valeyard; 10-01-18 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 10-01-18, 04:34 PM
  #357  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

I swear this thread and the Batman thread is just making it worse and worse for me. I realize reading anything in text form when it's supposed to be portrayed in art over months and months will be jarring but ugh, just ugh.

As far as brayzie's comment about fan fiction, that's all comics really ever were... creations passed along from creative team to creative team, with the new authors having free reign (usually) to retcon anything they want while trying to pass a semblance of continuity. In Marvel's case, they kind of just fudge it together, in DC's case they do a Crisis/reboot every few years and try to fix it wholesale until it just gets convoluted all over again. Which is why the best of the best is usually a singular creator doing a run with a start and end that stands alone as a decent story while not rewriting what most at the time find endearing about the character. If they're good enough, it becomes the canon for people of that age (like Claremont's X-men). Because the people who enjoyed Superman and Batman as they were originally written would have major beef with the way they were portrayed in the 70's, 80's and 90's, in terms of personality and even powers.

I mean how does Superman being split up even make any sense when you consider whatever weak storyline Convergence had going for it (were all those alternate stories shards of the superheroes as well?), what Morrison wrote for New 52, etc. How the heck did Superman go into retirement and have a kid when the new 52 timeline deaged everyone, or was that thrown out the window too? And then what's up with Wally West (the real one) who recognized Superman. Ugh.
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Old 10-02-18, 01:13 PM
  #358  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Much of the New 52 history has been tossed aside by this point.

And Superman having a son has been a blast. Writers over the years had gotten very comfortable repeating all the same mannerisms between Lois and Clark in their marriage, which was making it stale. Adding their son to the mix has made it far more interesting.
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Old 10-02-18, 01:18 PM
  #359  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Much of the New 52 history has been tossed aside by this point.

And Superman having a son has been a blast. Writers over the years had gotten very comfortable repeating all the same mannerisms between Lois and Clark in their marriage, which was making it stale. Adding their son to the mix has made it far more interesting.
Someday, someone who grew up with the new 52 will long for the v necks and armored look and end up writing for DC and bringing it back.

I agree that Superman with son has been great. I think it works, where it might not work with others, because the dude is like a dad anyway.
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Old 10-03-18, 03:47 AM
  #360  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
As far as brayzie's comment about fan fiction, that's all comics really ever were... creations passed along from creative team to creative team, with the new authors having free reign (usually) to retcon anything they want while trying to pass a semblance of continuity.
I get what you're saying, but I disagree.
Fan-fiction tends to have negative connotations. Anyone can write it, and it's thought to be produced by people who have no formal training as writers, and who have limited reading/viewing habits, for example fans who only watch a certain television genre or show. Or fans who grew up only reading comic books.

Look at someone like Alan Moore. His stuff never felt like fan-fiction to me, although he was definitely a fan. But he borrowed from ideas from things outside of superhero comics to create great stories. Lovecraft and the "Old Ones" are clear inspirations for his Green Lantern Corps story.
What's Geoff Johns inspiration for his Green Lantern Blackest Night story? Alan Moore's Green Lantern story.




In Marvel's case, they kind of just fudge it together, in DC's case they do a Crisis/reboot every few years and try to fix it wholesale until it just gets convoluted all over again. Which is why the best of the best is usually a singular creator doing a run with a start and end that stands alone as a decent story while not rewriting what most at the time find endearing about the character.
Yeah, but there's more to it than that.
The well is already poisoned.
Once creators rights became an issue, a lot of artists and writers started holding back. Why create great new characters for the big two and not see a penny off that creation?
Why have a great story in mind, and use it for Batman and Green Lantern, when you might be able to do it as a creator owned project and sell the film rights later?
Instead, lets just kill off and marry characters, switch identities, and restart the universe every year?

Which is why mainstream American superhero comics aren't that fun, at least for me. And yet, the comics are written for people in my demographic.

Last edited by brayzie; 10-03-18 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 10-03-18, 08:02 AM
  #361  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I get what you're saying, but I disagree.
Fan-fiction tends to have negative connotations. Anyone can write it, and it's thought to be produced by people who have no formal training as writers, and who have limited reading/viewing habits, for example fans who only watch a certain television genre or show. Or fans who grew up only reading comic books.

Look at someone like Alan Moore. His stuff never felt like fan-fiction to me, although he was definitely a fan. But he borrowed from ideas from things outside of superhero comics to create great stories. Lovecraft and the "Old Ones" are clear inspirations for his Green Lantern Corps story.
What's Geoff Johns inspiration for his Green Lantern Blackest Night story? Alan Moore's Green Lantern story.





Yeah, but there's more to it than that.
The well is already poisoned.
Once creators rights became an issue, a lot of artists and writers started holding back. Why create great new characters for the big two and not see a penny off that creation?
Why have a great story in mind, and use it for Batman and Green Lantern, when you might be able to do it as a creator owned project and sell the film rights later?
Instead, lets just kill off and marry characters, switch identities, and restart the universe every year?

Which is why mainstream American superhero comics aren't that fun, at least for me. And yet, the comics are written for people in my demographic.
Not all comics are glorified fan fiction. Of course there are great comic creators, great storytellers, and if nothing else even if you don't necessarily like their style, great artists doing these books. But there are absolutely comics that are written by people that could be described as exactly what you wrote, or at the very least comics written by trained writers who put their fanboyish tendencies over anything else. And it's not like it hasn't always been the case, I mean Jim Shooter himself was 14 years old when he started writing professionally, they didn't exactly have a high bar of entry. That doesn't necessarily mean it's all bad, but writers absolutely come in as fans of certain eras and work to bring that back.
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Old 10-07-18, 11:50 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

So uh... how did Bart come back? And how is the YJ Superboy coming back? I'm all for a true YJ revival (hey need to deage Or reboot Cassie though) but now I'm even more confused.
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Old 10-08-18, 09:23 AM
  #363  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Im just glad to see Tim with one R on his suit. Fuck that Red Robin shit.
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Old 04-24-19, 01:14 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
So uh... how did Bart come back? And how is the YJ Superboy coming back? I'm all for a true YJ revival (hey need to deage Or reboot Cassie though) but now I'm even more confused.
My understanding is that the new version of Young Justice is from an alternate universe.
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Old 04-24-19, 01:18 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Wow. The Heroes in Crisis #8 that was released today basically gives a big FU to Geoff Johns Rebirth initiative. I like Tom King, but this whole series has been an exercise in destroying the whole goodwill that DC received in 2016. It doesn't even make fucking sense. The link below reveals the killer

https://www.newsarama.com/44906-hero...-spoilers.html
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Old 04-24-19, 01:29 PM
  #366  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Someone up top really really really hates Wally West. Or something.
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Old 04-24-19, 01:45 PM
  #367  
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

I recently picked up a few Superman/Action comics from the New 52 and Rebirth. The New 52 struck me as garbage, but the Rebirth piqued my interest enough to start seeking out more issues. (retirement is wonderful!) I will NOT wander into the other titles - no matter where the story leads. I'm only interested in Superman and Action at this point.

Reading the above stuff makes me wonder if I should just give up now.
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Old 04-24-19, 01:51 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by Bronkster View Post
I recently picked up a few Superman/Action comics from the New 52 and Rebirth. The New 52 struck me as garbage, but the Rebirth piqued my interest enough to start seeking out more issues. (retirement is wonderful!) I will NOT wander into the other titles - no matter where the story leads. I'm only interested in Superman and Action at this point.

Reading the above stuff makes me wonder if I should just give up now.
If you go into reading superhero comics, I still say the best way is to just pick runs that you know (through word of mouth or whatever) are good and complete, and enjoy them as largely standalone stories without worrying what completely different writers and creators do to those characters down the line. I loved the Superman and son Rebirth line of books.
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Old 04-24-19, 02:00 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
If you go into reading superhero comics, I still say the best way is to just pick runs that you know (through word of mouth or whatever) are good and complete, and enjoy them as largely standalone stories without worrying what completely different writers and creators do to those characters down the line. I loved the Superman and son Rebirth line of books.
Is the Superman: Lois and Clark series something I should check out?
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Old 04-24-19, 02:07 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by Bronkster View Post
Is the Superman: Lois and Clark series something I should check out?
Yes. That series in particular lead to the Superman Rebirth and introduced Jonathan Kent as the new Superboy
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Old 04-24-19, 02:11 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
Yes. That series in particular lead to the Superman Rebirth and introduced Jonathan Kent as the new Superboy
Cool. Thanks!
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Old 04-24-19, 02:12 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

If you have a tablet I would recommend just subscribing to DC Universe for a month... it's cheaper than just buying even just the Superman: Lois and Clark series (which I think is 8 issues), and there's much more you can read. Unless you're just borrowing from the library or something.

I just checked and it has Superman: Rebirth up to issue 43, so about a year behind.
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Old 04-24-19, 03:13 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm an old-school physical media kinda guy.
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Old 04-24-19, 03:44 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

I understand that Tom King wanted to make Heroes in Crisis main theme about mental health issues and that's fine, but I think he has tackled this the wrong way and selected the wrong character in Wally West to make a point. I don't understand who hates Wally (Didio?) but is disrespectful to say the least the way they have treated this iconic character.

We are now closing in on 3 years of the release of Rebirth #1 and almost no answers to the stories biggest questions:

1- Why did Dr. Manhattan do this?
2- Why did he removed Wally West?
3- What's the answer to the 3 Jokers going around?
4- How did Ted Kord come back?
5- Where are the Wildstorm characters?
6- Why was Pandora the key to the New 52?
7- Why were all characters de-aged?
8- What's the deal with Saturn Girl being in the present DC Universe?
9- How can some people remember the JSA, if they never existed?

I got a feeling that many of these questions are not going to be answered as DC seems to have moved on from Geoff Johns and replaced him with Bendis, who is creating his own narrative with Superman, Naomi and the rest of the DCU in the upcoming Leviathan mini-series.
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Old 04-24-19, 04:13 PM
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Re: DC Comics to relaunch everything with #1s in June 2016

I've been out the DC loop.
Dido still wants Wally out the way I guess. And I just saw his new costume and it looks great.
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