brayzie

Really? I remembering buying one or two issues of Uncanny when he and Joe Maudeira were on the title and I thought it was fun, nothing stood out as bad or boring but it was a long time ago. I did however really enjoy his writing on X-Men/WildCATs and WildCATs.
Oh yeah, he also wrote Generation X which I thought was pretty good. Then again, I had been reading quite a bit of Rob Liefeld comics so maybe the standard for quality had gotten just really low.

Obi-Wanma

When Chris Claremont came back to Marvel and began writing X-Men Forever in 2009, it was advertised as a continuation of his original run. So an alt-universe kinda thing, that resumes where he left off. One of the first things he did was kill Wolverine.

Timber

No you're right, the Maudeira era was fun. I think it had more to do with the art style than the writing but I will give Lobdell some credit for that.

rocket1312

Art Thibert only did two issues of X-Men as penciller during that time (#'s 12 & 13) and they were both with Fabian Nicieza.

Even though Lobdell had started scripting Jim Lee's plots with X-Men #6 and Uncanny #286, I don't think you can really judge him on those stories. They weren't really his. Lobdell's run didn't really start in full force until after X-Cutioner's Song, which was mostly Fabian Nicieza's deal.

It's been a loooong time since I've read any of it, but my memory of Lobdell's run is that it mostly consisted of editorially mandated crossovers mixed with directionless filler. Claremont was able to juggle dozens of plotlines, but when he was at his best the book still had a certain forward momentum issue to issue. Lobdell's early run just seems to randomly bounce around from plot to plot with no real purpose or intrigue. A ton of time was spent trying to make the Acolytes matter, but they never really took off as characters. He did seem to do well on one-off "quiet" issues. I know the issue where Illanya dies is well thought of by some people. He also was one of the architects of Age of Apocalypse which a lot of people love. I still think Bob Harras, who in his defense was acting on behalf of the corporate overlords at Marvel, is the one who should get much of the blame for that era.

Undeadcow

It would have been really interesting to see X-men Forever continuity fold into the Secret Wars event.

PhantomStranger

I remember hearing about that idea. Claremont's idea would have been a great direction for Wolverine as a character but unworkable as the most popular character at the company. Wolverine had supplanted Spider-Man by this point as Marvel's most popular character and turning him into a dead villain would have prevented his dozens of guest appearances each month.

What they should have done is have two Wolverines running around, one a master assassin and a normal one. They could have had their cake and eaten it too.

rocket1312

The funny thing is that when Mark Millar did it 15 years down the road (he insists he knew nothing of Claremont's original idea) in Wolverine's solo book, it made no difference. He was still appearing in multiple X-Men titles as well New Avengers and no one cared that he was going around killing people in Enemy of the State.

fujishig

To me, the more they revealed about Wolverine's past, and the more they mainstreamed him, the less interesting he got (although I didn't mind adding him and Spidey to New Avengers, because at least those were some new interactions on the team). I think the idea of the mystery was better than whatever convoluted plot they eventually came up with to explain it.

Actually, if I go back to the Lee years, all that setup for the Acolytes, the 12, the traitor that resulted in Bishop coming back, the New Hellfire Club that wiped out the old one, the assassin's guild (gambit), Cannonball being an External... all of the reveals basically sucked (the Bishop one was novel, at least, but man they massacred his character). About the only one that I really liked was Cable's origin.

Timber

Most after the Lee years. I'm not sure how much he and Portacio plotted of Bishops backstory but that didn't unfold until they were gone. The Upstarts story really didn't really get going and what of it did took place in Uncanny with Portacio. Claremont/Lee teased Cable's origin over in X-Factor but again both were long gone when we got to the reveal.

PhantomStranger

It was clear to me that Marvel was never happy with any specific Wolverine origin and it wasn't like they had superstar writers in the '90s that could whip up a coherent, cool origin that would stick.

Undeadcow

I'm confused how obvious pandering to consumer demographics is respectful. Maybe I lack perspective but if someone altered something then told me "all you white kids eat this up" I'd probably be offended. It is important to have diverse role models and fictional outlets; but some of the bluntness with this seems odd. I'm 100% for interesting stories and risky changes; but when the meat of it is a bunch of maneuvering to just change the skin color of a character (like Bendis says of Spider-man) it feels more like thinly veiled exploitation than intelligent storytelling.

The Valeyard

Racist.

fujishig

I don't think he's saying that he created Miles Morales to do that, just that that's the effect Miles Morales has had, and I think I'm ok with that.

Where's my non-stereotyped asian superhero? And don't say Big Hero Six...

ddrknghtrtns

Would it not have been a better idea to just let Wolvie get kidnapped and brainwashed by the Hand into becoming a master assassin/ villain? What is it with comic book writers constantly wanting to kill and resurrect characters?

fujishig

I figured that was just a nod to the Hand's MO with Elektra as written by Miller...

sven

Blatantly stolen from NEOGAF.......

Johnathan Hickman hears about Secret Warriors being on SHIELD and delivers an iceburn via Twitter:



https://twitter.com/JHickman/status/614506131088650242

Trevor

Please forgive the multi-thread cross post everyone, but we're doing a Christmas in July gift exchange here in Comic Book Talk and wanted to give everyone a chance to participate.

Everyone will be given a name, you'll PM each other addresses, and send a little mystery gift bag of comics or comic-related trinkets.

Don't reply in this thread, but please see the below thread for more details and to sign up.
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/comic-book-...-exchange.html