Travis McClain

[cough]Alan Scott[/cough]

Then doesn't it stand to reason that you, as a reader, can decide for yourself whether the issues depicting pro-Vietnam Cap are, in fact, the version you prefer? Conflicting continuities oughtn't be a problem for any comics reader; certainly not for a Marvel follower!

So you dislike both depictions, because one is flattering to a guy you dislike and the other is unflattering to a guy you loved? Let's say it was Batman "sucking Reagan's dick" and Spider-man "trashing the fuck out of Obama;" are you still complaining? It sounds to me that the problem you have isn't that comics are political...but that they're not your politics.

Darkgod

I dunno, maybe cause Punisher is my favorite character, I feel that they disgraced him. This is a character, as someone else posted, grounded in reality. And they took that away.They did this once before, when Punisher was hunting supernatural stuff. And it bombed, as this is bombing again. You read any comic shop news, or blogs and basically its 50/50 hate it or love it. But that is 50 percent of the sales punisher is losing.

dx23

That has been the contradiction the past 9 years. When people where complaining and protesting the government and the Bush administration, they were considered anti-americans, traitors and terrorist loving fools by Fox, Republicans, etc. Now, when someone complains and protest the current goverment and Obama administration, they are considered patriots by the same people. Give me a fucking break.

dx23

Like in most issues they talk about, those bloggers are as misinformed as they come. Just by reading their comments, I'm pretty sure most of them haven't picked up a comic book in a long time.

benedict

I am uncomfortable about threads - such as this - with the clear potential for straying far into the territory covered by the Political forum in which certain traits and trends are evident regarding the direction in which discussions proceed which I find at odds with the way civilised folk usually talk/act here.

I am particularly uncomfortable when such threads are started by DVDtalkers who have a history of what I would term "politically-oriented trolling" and who don't have much of a history in Book Talk or its esteemed sub-forum.

Would everyone posting after me please make sure that they "play nice"...

... thanks to all in advance for their cooperation and understanding!

dx23

Actually, I think this thread should be closed since it outlived it's usefulness. I don't think this topic will go any further without getting out of hand in a political mess.

On the other hand, I still wonder why a guy like wm lopez is allowed to continue being in this forum. I already complained in the Feedback forum about him and I know many members are tired of him. Previous members such as danol, Dalvin and art were banned for similar crap. wm lopez is disruptive, as simple as that, and most of the times, threads he is involved in end up in suspensions, banning or closing.

ivelostr2

I miss danol...i just went back and read his post on the beachboys and road warrior...one of the greats...

DarkestPhoenix

Not to politicize this any further........

Yeah, I don't like the politics currently represented by Marvel. Never did like their politics, and the comics that have them so obviously at the front and center are the ones I hate most.

I'm not asking for Cap to oppose Bush or support him or oppose or support Obama. I just wish they'd leave both of them out altogether.

There were all those New Avengers books coming out in support of the troops in Iraq. But the storylines weren't supporting or decrying the war in Iraq. It was more like, "Oh, shit, we're deployed to Iraq and just found a UFO. Somebody call Cap." Or...."Oh, shit, we're in Afghanistan and the Hulk showed up! OMGWTFBBQ Avengers Assemble."

By avoiding the politics, they can address current events and still tell a good story. That's what I want. Just like Frankencastle is alienating too much of the readership, injecting your personal political slant for no more end than to say, "I'm a writer, and I'm a _____________ (insert political label here)!" does not help tell a better story, IMHO.

dx23

You have to remember that these writers and artist in Marvel and DC draw inspiration from real life situations, including politics, to tell stories the same way writers and actors do it for TV shows and movie. Just because the medium is different, we shouldn't expect or tell them not to include things that are controversial. It would the same as asking CSI or Law and Order writers to not do storylines that deal with corrupt politicians, etc. What may be controversial or unappealing to you may be interesting to millions.

ivelostr2

I would also argue that sometimes the literature and film that is the most thought provoking is so because it doesn't necessarily agree with our politics…just because we don’t agree with it, doesn’t mean that there isn’t value to us in its existence. I would actually say that there is more value if something opposing what I believe, because, it makes me reconsider it, therefore strengthening my arguments or allowing me to have a perspective that shows a topic in a different way than I had seen it before.
Now, is this what happened in Captain America, was there enough there to sway or strengthen someone’s belief, or was it a cheap shot? I don’t know, I’m about 2 issues away, because I had a hard time finding issue 600 and I haven’t read the issues after it.

Either way, I hate the idea that opposing ideas must be hated…

brayzie

I agree.

However, I think it's because these are childrens characters that we grew up with, and then to see them molded to fit the writers beliefs, it rubs readers the wrong way.

It would be different if it was Brian Bendis' FLAG MAN. But's it's a Marvel character.
It's like if Batman begin killing extremely violent criminals. There's an agrument to be made for that:

He originally did kill criminals in his original inception

Police kill violent criminals in self defense or to protect others. Why not Batman?

That's the problem with characters owned by corporations. Creator owned characters are a certain way. With characterse like Cap or Batman. One minute their noble characters who always do what's right, the next minute their portrayed as psychopaths that starve their sidekicks and make them eat rats.

After thinking about it some, Marvel should publish what they want to. If it bothers you, write them why you disagree with their content and stop giving them money.

Rockmjd23

Conversely, those protesting under Bush were heroes standing up against an immoral war, whereas now the protesters are just shrugged off as racists. Give me a break indeed.

brayzie

That's a good point.

Dissent is only patriotic when "my" side does it.

I think this is a good thread and that it shouldn't be closed. Maybe moved to the Politics forum?

wm lopez

Because for the same reason Rush Limbaugh, 700 CLUB and FOXNEWS isn't shut down in America. It's freedom of speech. If the truth is said and you don't like it then debate. I don't need to call others names because what I say comes from the conservative point of view. The other side needs to call names or "shut down" because they don't want people to listen to both sides and then make a common sense choice. Kinda like Obama was doing with his war on FOXNEWS. For the record I didn't believe in Al Gore's Global warmimg.
Which as the current news has shown was a lie.
Why doesn't Marvel do a nice story on that?
Because they are liberal and won't.

dx23

I never saw or read about people protesting the war as heroes. From the liberal side, it was mentioned that they had the right to protest a war that had no logic (retaliation for 9/11 on Iraq, when they had nothing to do with it?) and the name calling came from the right, saying that they were anti-americans. Now, these Teabaggers, who are really a rogue group of the Republicans and do not represent them as a whole, have racist signs and promoters inside the group. People have the right to call them racist when a guy like Tancredo leads the pack. Still, FOX calls them true heroes and patriots when even the true Republican party is shunning these people away.

dx23

This is a private forum owned by Internet Brands. The freedom of speech bullshit that you believe in your small brain doesn't apply here. There are rules against trolling, which you continually break without any repercussions. Try this bullshit at the United Center or Wrigley Field in Chicago and they'll kick your ass out building and there is nothing you can do about it.

Yes, Marvel is liberal. So what? They can do whatever the fuck they want with you characters the same way Fox can do whatever they want with their property.

Yes, you don't believe in Global Warming and from your posts I can assume that you don't believe in literacy either, which I find funny, because you will be one of the affected if the Tea Party gets their way and establish a literacy test to vote.

And like someone said before, I don't understand why you are a Teabaggers, since we are pretty sure Sarah Palin hates Mexicans.

Darkgod

Can't we all stop bitching about politics and keep it about the fucking comics. Jesus Christ. You both say how you don't like politics in the comics.... you know what... ignore them. I didn't vote for Obama, but I could give two shits if he is in spiderman or not. We're able to let our minds go when a guy screams "flame on" and erupts into flames, and flies next to his invisible sister, elastic brother in law, and rock friend. But we cannot keep up that intention when politics come into it. I remeber in civil war when they did the whole " Thor is my friend and you are not thor" (or however it was written) and people blew up saying that had no place in comics.... really? Who fucking cares.

Rockmjd23

How were they portrayed by the entertainment media? Think movies, music, television, etc.

dx23

Besides the Michael Moore films and other left wing documentaries and articles, I don't remember the word heroes used in mainstream in order to describe people protesting the war. At least not on News channels.

brayzie

Isn't insulting fellow posters also against the rules.

And I thought wmlopez was American.

dx23

I didn't insult anyone. And if he is American, then his barely English posts makes him even look worse. I thought English was his second language by the way he expresses his thoughts here.

benedict

I'm closing this thread because, in spite of my request, a couple of folk thought it OK to persist with off-topic &/or vexatious posting.

If someone is inclined to start a new thread in Politics, then so be it. I am afraid that, on this occasion, I don't think I'll be taking the time to split off the relevant posts and to move the curtailed thread across.

Posting privileges are hereby removed from:

For each email or PM I receive from one or both of the above complaining about this treatment, I propose to add a week to their respective suspension which currently is scheduled to last until the end of March.

Should either of these members further circumvent the rules and return under a new name, they will be BANNED. No correspondence will be entered into. There are no excuses/extenuating circumstances whatsoever when it comes to signing up again while suspended.