Rex Power Colt-Robot Man

He wants the voting populace to be educated and that makes him a racist? Hypersensitivity and playing the victim at its finest. I swear people will find racism in everything. "read between the lines. he hates brown people!" give me a break. if i say i hate bown m and m's it means just that. i hate brown m and m's. sometimes people just say what they mean.

van der graaf

Lemmy

Actually, I agree with you. I wish that people were more educated in general, and I don't think that people who are unable to pass a literacy test should be able to vote. "The great unwashed/Wal-Mart crowd" have kept us down for a long time, and I don't give a crap what color any of them are. And to understand this real contradiction I have over this issue, you should know that I'm typically on the Dem side of things.

dx23

Funny thing is that the literacy test will disqualify a lot of those Teabaggers, but that doesn't take away the other fact that Tancredo mentioned this in his speech in order to prevent blacks from voting.

Josh-da-man

Captain America hates America!

Rex Power Colt-Robot Man

Alot more than teabaggers would be left out in the cold. Hell I probably couldnt pass a civics literacy test. That dosent make it racist. I would direct you to this youtube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6zM5ldO35A around the 7-8 min mark is Obama's old church leader being more racist than anyone ive ever seen before. The author of that video would have you believe that Obama himself is a racist by taking passages from one of his books out of context, that I do not agree with. Here is the snopes page that explains most of the comments made that can be construed by people grasping at straws that Obama is a racist. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp Now in the video is some news clips that do make me scratch my head. Obama describing his grandmother as a "typical white person" and Michelle saying that black America will wake up. There in lies the problem with throwing out the race card. Is it not also racist to target a specific group of people just because you happen to look like them? Shure, not racist in the negative sense, but racist none the less. And I dont think Captain America hates America, two party politics hates America.

brayzie

This Tancredo character mentioned that he wanted to prevent blacks from voting by instituting a literacy test?

Wouldn't that just prevent ignorant people from voting?
I would need to know more about how a literacy test would affect things in the long run to completely be for it. Sounds like a good idea though.

I do however, like the idea of counties not putting (R) or (D) next to candidates names. Discourages people from just voting by party, instead of actually reading up on the candidates.

My uncle just checks everyone who has R by their name. He also thinks Obama is an undercover Muslim because he "slipped up" when speaking to Bill O'Reilly.
*sigh*

brayzie

Didn't he bring that up when describing that his grandma feared a black guy walking down the street and that he can't disown his grandma, just like he can't disown the guy who speaks at the church down the street?

It might have been better to say "she was a result of growing up in all white area," if that was the case.

DarkestPhoenix

Holy shit, why would you want politics to have ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR COMICS?!

I'm conservative, but this shit just kills comics. Look at the stories when they were subtly political...like X-Men. Much better. This dumbass crap with Obama hanging out with Spider-Man and Captain America not having a 1940s mindset is just stupid.

brayzie

I agree. That's why I didn't like the idea of DCU: Decisions comic.

I remember there was a rumor that a writer a ways back was going to have revealed that the reason why Captain America was frozen, was because he opposed the bombing of Hiroshima and that a general manipulated the events of his last mission with Bucky in order for both of them to be taken out.

It kind of doesn't work because where was he when all the collateral damage was being done in Germany or Japan prior to that?

dx23

Like I said before, this was a law for blacks only, where they needed to pass a literacy test to vote. That is what Tancredo was refering to. By the way, Tancredo is not any character, he is/was a powerful politician for Colorado who was even hated by the Bush administration for the outrageous remarks he made publicly.

Darkgod

Dammit... this got all too political. I was hoping to come here and see an open letter from marvel saying sorry for ruining the punisher (frank(en) castle). Or atleast saying they would print some of the opposing viewpoints in the comic, instead of throwing 10 different pro Frankencastle letters in it.

dx23

Captain America has always been a political character. Back in the 70's, Marvel got heat from the US Government due to the writers using Cap to criticize Vietnam and the entire Nixon administration. I think that as a private company, they can do whatever the hell they want and if they want to send a political message, more power to them. They have the tools and necessary audience to take a political stance if they want to. Watchmen had a political plot and tone. Isn't it one of the most respected works in the industry?

Lemmy

Exactly. And Marvel, in it's classic 60's/70's heyday, was ran by a bunch of fairly liberal folks (Stan Lee, Steve Gerber, etc) who often integrated their political stance in their works. The comics were/are, quite often, reflections of the attitudes of the counter-culture, hence being very appealing to forward-thinking young folks who like their fantasy administered with a bit of vigilantism. After all, who wouldn't want to just walk up to a threatening rival and simply...dispatch them, in the method of both your choice and ability?

Eric F

"V" was really political, so was The Dark Knight Returns, Elektra Assassin, all the best books are, really. So, as I stated earlier, the only reason I could see for this "apology" is to gain more publicity for flagging sales.

Josh-da-man

Bleeding Cool: How the Blogosphere Learned to Hate Captain America.

wm lopez

I started the thread. Hello!

Lemmy

Here's an anti-FrankenCastle comment for ya: What has been done to that character is reprehensible. They took the one character that could absolutely be grounded in THIS reality (angry vengeful vigilante shooter) and instead of keeping him dark and edgy, they neuter him into stupidity. Zombie Frank?!? WT (and if you have time for it) F?

Travis McClain

Why wouldn't you want storytelling to bother to address social issues?

X-Men was always about minority rights, using "mutants" as an allegory. Why is the Spider-Man/Obama meeting a problem for you? Did you balk at President Reagan appearing in Miller's Dark Knight Returns, or any of the other appearances of real life presidents in comics? And why should Cap still have a 1940s mindset? The guy's been thawed for...how long now? I mean, at some point the guy's gotta either adapt or die.

Consider this: Aside from not being Steve Rogers anymore, there is the symbolic value of the character to consider. Cap's values are still the same, and only the issues have changed? He pledged to uphold freedom, liberty and justice in opposition to the darkest forces to walk the earth. Why shouldn't his successor continue to oppose the threats he perceives to those causes for which his predecessor fought in WW II? If it was right to defend the Jews, gypsies, etc. from the Nazis, shouldn't it be right to resist a thinly veiled racist group operating at home today?

More importantly, doesn't the very existence of these discussions make Captain America relevant again? It's good for business, sure, but I also believe it's good for the character to address these things.

lattethunder

There's actually a very good reason Captain America doesn't have a '40s mindset: it's not Steve Rogers. The people doing the bitching (as well as most of the ones on the other side of the argument) are ignoring (or are unaware of) the fact that it's a different guy, one with a really fucked-up past and his own set of issues.

Travis McClain

I consider myself properly taken to school on this one...!

Cathepsin

Actually, Marvel was good about handling the recent "retard" controversy in Fantastic Four. They printed many complaining letters in a subsequent issue, thus airing the objections people had to the use of the word, and then Jonathan Hickman stuck to his guns about using it. None of this we'll change it for the collection bullshit.

Also, Frankencastle rocks. It's not like that's the only thing they're doing with the character right now. Don't like it? Read PunisherMax instead. It's pretty awesome, too - Jason Aaron! Steve Dillon! In the Garth Ennis tradition!

DarkestPhoenix

Exactly my point.

Captain America is Steve Rogers. He is the only one. Just like the Green Lantern is Hal Jordan.

All this other bullshit only sullies the name of Captain America. I hate it. Damn you, Marvel, for fucking over almost every decent character you have.

Wolverine + Daken = Fucked
Spider-Man + One More Day = Fucked
Magneto + M-Day = Fucked

And it just goes on and on and on. Castle, Captain America, FF, Avengers, Iron Man, Skrull bullshit, Hulk............I seriously don't know if I can take it anymore.

DarkestPhoenix

I don't mind him being political....but you can't tell me that Cap protesting Vietnam is the same Cap that punched Hitler in the face BEFORE WE EVEN GOT INVOLVED IN WWII. Captain America should promote the good in America, be a positive force for the country. He shouldn't be like a fucking liberal-ass news anchorman always pointing out how America is the epitome of all things evil. If you really want to do that, well, there are other characters whose personality that would fit much better. There were tons of comics with Marvel characters fighting in Vietnam, including Cap....b/c they made some where he opposed it means an individual writer gets to determine company character actions.

Watchmen is about exactly the same as the movie. Critical acclaim; overrated.

No to the guy who said it's like Reagan appearing in the Dark Knight, b/c it was obvious Miller was trashing the fuck out of Reagan, not sucking his dick through a cameo appearance like Obama.

It's all Quesada. Fuck that guy. I wish he would have been typecast as ARTIST-ONLY long ago.

Cathepsin

If Captain America was willing to buck the official isolationist foreign policy of the United States to punch out Hitler, I think it's well within his established character to disapprove of the US's involvement in Vietnam.

To say that Captain America is like a fucking liberal-ass news anchorman who is always pointing out how America is the epitome of all things evil indicates that it's possible you've never read any Captain America comic, ever. You might like Marvel Fanfare 18, where Cap runs into a burning building to rescue... an American Flag!

It's possible to be a patriot and criticize your government. That's what those charming Tea Partiers are doing, after all. I guess maybe it's only patriotic to criticize the government if liberals are running it?