DGibFen

I'm really beginning to think that Marvel needs a "Crisis" type storyline to reboot not just Spidey, but most of the Marvel U at large. Just not while Quesada is in charge.

Bob_Bobbson

Hello true believers! Part 4 of this Amazing Quadrilogy of Crap is out. This arc has been so bad, I'm almost tempted to bury my self alive just so I can say I'm spinning in my grave! [/StanLeeMode]

Okay, seriously. The new issue is out.

When we left Peter, he was asking Strange for help with wiping his identity from the minds of everyone. Strange consults with Reed and Tony about it, and they both question whether they should do it or not. They mention the failed attempt to erase Sentry and how these mind wipes usually don't work. They aren't really that opposed to it though, because after some light disscussion w/Strange, they decide to do it.

Reed, Tony and Strange decide that everyone except Peter is to have their mind wiped, MJ and themselves included. They put Peter into some kind of force field shield thing to block the mind wipe from effecting him. At the last second, he yanks MJ in so she will remember too. They then wake up back in the motel room bed, interestingly, right where they were in OMD.

The scene from there carries out the same as the big long talk they had in OMD. Infact, it is all artwork recycled from OMD Part 4, just with small alterations to the dialog that removes all references to Mephisto and the deal.

MJ asks peter why he wouldn't let her forget, she says she doesn't want to remember. She can't be with him because eventually someone will pull his mask off and know who he is. She can't put herself and her family in danger like that. (You know, the same dialog basically that has occured over the last 2 issues)

Then it cuts back to the present. MJ tells him that they need to finally move on. Peter needs to find someone else, someone who can be with him.

The last scene of the comic is Peter, in costume, standing on a rooftop. He says that the best person he ever knew has set him free. He can now face anything that comes at him in life. He then, in an uninspired name drop, says it feels like a Brand New Day.

Ick.

stingermck

Wait? What? *face palm*

fumanstan

I just read the recent recaps... I actually like the recent Marvel universe ongoings, but the Spider-Man stuff sounds dreadful.

dx23

This is simple. Joe Quesada like a spoiled rotten brat, wanted MJ out of the picture, one way or the other, no matter if the entire Marvel fanbase disagrees with him. So, he got his wish. To me, it shows that most of the current people at Marvel are just devoid of ideas. Quesada wants to keep Spidey like he was still in high school instead of letting the character grow and evolve as a normal human being, like Peter Parker had done for the past 40 years.

Bob_Bobbson

I have a question...How is it that Strange, Reed & Tony can wipe something from the minds of everyone on the planet...but they can't heal a simple gunshot wound?

movieguru

How does the mind wipe thing change erase video tape and newspapers, etc. in the marvel Universe mentioning that Peter Parker is Spider-Man?

fujishig

C'mon, it's magic. Though you'd think if they could do something like this, there are about a million more worthwhile causes than keeping Spidey's identity a secret. Plus what was the point of the series, from reading the recap we're back to square one post OMD except mephisto isn't involved or something? I don't get it.

I thought Strange wasn't even Sorceror Supreme anymore?

dx23

I imagine that the fan backlash for this is worst than for the whole Clone Saga, right?

JasonF

Every time I see something with the Illuminati, I want to drive to Bendis's house and burn it down. Such an aggressively bad idea -- not just stupid, but destructive to the characters and to the Marvel Universe, and it makes for some incredibly boring comics -- half of this issue was three people sitting around having a meeting. For the love of God -- a fucking meeting! Who the hell thought that would make a good comic? I give One Moment in Time negative fourteen stars. It makes me wish Joe Quesada's typewriter would explode so he can never write again.

However, Origin of the Species -- the next Spidey arc -- also came out this week and it was balls awesome.

dx23

Although I agree with you that the comic was ridiculously boring, I believe the Illuminati concept to be a good one. It lead to Planet Hulk, so that is a plus. The problem has been on the way the Illuminati was dismantled. After Civil War and World War Hulk, the members of the Illuminati should have been at odds with the rest of the Marvel Universe for a long time. People like Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Dr. Strange should have been put on trial and the resolution would have been of these people being outcasts in the Marvel Universe and seeing how they would redeem themselves for the atrocities they committed. My current dislike of Marvel has been that they resolved all these issues without really going into the chaos these individuals created. Guys like Iron Man and Richards were forgiven in a heartbeat. Why? What these guys did cost lives (Goliath, Steve Rogers, Aunt May) and destruction (NYC during World War Hulk). The consequences to the Illuminati's action were huge and yet there was no retribution by those affected.

JasonF

You say the Illuminati concept was a good one, but everything you say (except for the part about Planet Hulk being an awesome story, which it was) points to exactly why the Illuminati concept is so bad. Illuminati in a nutshel: let's take three of our biggest heroes and turn them into calculating, manipulative control freaks who use their fellow heroes as chess pieces to further their own secret agendas. Fuck that. If you asked me five years ago "I want to do a story about a group of characters banding together to decide how the world should operate and then using their vast powers and resources to accomplish that," my reaction would have been "Cool -- I can't wait to see how the heroes defeat this unholy alliance of Dr. Doom, the Red Skull, the Mandarin, the Kingpin, and the Green Goblin." Except it turns out the unholy alliance was the heroes.

Their use in OMIT is a case in point. Spider-Man wants to erase knowledge of his identity. So he needs Dr. Strange's help (and Iron Man's and Reed Richards's, though he doesn't realize it), and it's reasonable to do a story that has Strange weighing the moral implications of his own actions. But it's not presented as "I, Stephen Strange, am not sure I feel comfortable with my part in this." It's presented as "I, Stephen Strange, get to decide what Spider-Man is and is not allowed to do." Fuck you, Stephen Strange. Who are you to be the moral arbiter of the Marvel Universe? Your job is to keep us safe from Dormammu and Baron Mordo and Shuma Gorath, not to go after Wonder Man because you don't like the way he saved the world from Count Nefaria (outside of a "Wonder Man is going evil!" story, but those should be done rarely and carefully).

I want to like Iron Man and Dr. Strange and Mr. Fantastic. I want to root for them. The Illuminati storyline makes it impossible to do so for all the reasons you describe, and that's what makes it a bad storyline.

Plus, it's just boring comics to see Iron Man, Dr. Strange, and Reed Richards hold a meeting for a dozen pages.

fujishig

I don't buy that argument against Strange, if only because Spidey couldn't have done anything without Strange in the first place, so of course Strange has the right to deny the request and decide what he can or cannot do (unless you're talking about some nuance of the story I missed, as I haven't read it).

I don't mind the concept of the Illuminati... Civil War by itself eradicated any feeling that I had that Richards and Stark were heroes, and did more damage IMHO than the Illuminati concept. The best thing they did was not to shoehorn people like Cap in there,and even have the Black Panther refuse membership... otherwise, Xavier has always been manipulating, and Namor doesn't care about morals.

I don't think it's a bad storyline if heroes you like don't always do the right thing... even if you want to cheer them. But I know old habits die hard. For instance, I still hate the whole Cyclops/Emma Frost pairing, but that doesn't seem like it's going to go away.

dx23

I understand what you are saying, and kind of agree with you. Still, when you look at characters like Tony Stark and Reed Richards, at least I can envision them reaching a point in their lives where they feel superior intellectually to everyone else in the Marvel U. Even though they justify that the actions they take are for the best interests of everyone else, I still can envision them turning unconsciously into villains. Remember that the greatest villains always think that what they are doing is correct. That's why I think the concept was a good idea, but the idiot writers at Marvel mishandled it.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well here, but the point I'm trying to make is that at least Richards and Stark, 2 of the most intelligent, wealthiest and powerful beings in the Marvel U reached an inevitable moment in their lives where they saw themselves above every other spandex wearing superhero. Seeing as how the writers had treated those 2 characters throughout their history, that moment was going to happen sooner or later. Although I think the Civil War was another botched idea, the further development of these two characters in that story continued in that trend of them being so powerful and influential that they would want to push their ideology to the rest of the world. Up until this point, I liked the direction Marvel was going with Richards and Stark. Unintentionally, they became the biggest villains in the Marvel U. Again, up to this point I thought things were done in a interesting way.

The fallout of all of this is where Marvel went wrong. Sue Richards shouldn't have returned with Richards so quickly. Both Richards and Stark (and Strange for that matter) should have been put on trial for war crimes when the world learned about what they did to the Hulk. Stark shouldn't have been director of SHIELD after that. Their road to redemption should have started with the Secret Invasion. That storyline should have served as a platform to show the importance of Richards in the Marvel U. The rest of the heroes would have had to go to Richards for assistance in order to reveal the undercover Skrulls and defeat them in battle. Stark on the other hand, would have found a longer (talking here about years) road to redemption. He was the biggest proponent of the registration act and more responsible for the deaths of superheroes, including Cap. Stark would lose it all and it would take real time to regain it.

By the way, I wouldn't have killed the Sentry either. I would have made him the worst supervillain ever, close to the magnitude of Kid Miracleman. That could have served as a platform for Tony to return and regain the respect of the rest of the superheroes.

Again, this is exactly what Marvel has done wrong in almost all their comic books. They sometimes present a great premise that is later completely mishandled by poor decisions and bad resolutions.

fujishig

Maybe I'm missing something, but what was the war crime that would've resulted in the shunning of the members of the Illuminati? Sending the Hulk into space? IIRC, they did not intend for him to go to that planet, nor did they intend for the planet to be destroyed. In fact, if not for that second part, Hulk would've been more than happy and the problem would've been solved.

Is it that he came back to seek revenge on them and caused a bunch of destruction? Then go ahead and round up every superhero on the planet.

Admittedly, I don't follow the Marvel Universe outside of trades, but it did seem like the FF recovered from the Civil War breaking them apart too quickly, so I'll agree with you there. Stark got his fall from grace with Dark Reign anyway, but I'll agree that bringing him back to hero-status and forgiveness was hokey. I don't know how much of an influence this had, but I tend to believe that they needed him to be a good guy quickly because of Iron Man 2's release.

The transition from the Illuminati concept to Civil War, WWH, Skrull Invasion, Dark Reign, etc. has been pretty good, however. Of course, that may just be because DC has failed so spectacularly in chaining Infinite Crisis, 52, Countdown, Final Crisis, Blackest Night, etc. When a series is called "Countdown to Final Crisis" and yet directly contradicts the actual "Final Crisis" series, you have a problem.

On a side note, speaking of DC, they had a similar situation when Batman was keeping tabs on all the heroes "just in case" with the OMAC satellites that caused a huge disaster, and yet he was forgiven really quickly too.

dx23

Without consulting anyone, they made the decision to send a 1. American citizen. 2. Human being, to a distant planet without his consent or agreement 3. They made decisions that affected the entire human race (expecting Hulk/Banner, one of the most intelligent guys in the planet to not find his way back on Earth) Essentially, they put the world at risk. That is why they kept it a secret until the Hulk returned. All the other superheroes thought that what the Illuminati did was wrong on so many levels. They imagined themselves being in the same position as Banner.

As for what happened with Batman and OMAC satellites, he was justified to do it because 1. he was already mindwiped and betrayed by his JL collegues, 2. he is human 3. it is part of the way he has always operated, getting to know his opponents and their weaknesses.

fujishig

I know this is comic book logic, and also that we generally consider Hulk to be a hero, but lets remember the circumstances. He had just gone on a rampage that claimed a bunch of lives. He's killed before. I have no idea if he was pardoned for any of that, but the decision was to exile him onto a planet where he could live the rest of his life in peace. These are the same people that built a prison in the Negative Zone to house prisoners, heroes and villains alike, for breaking the law. Heck, Reed is the one who hypnotized the original skrull invaders into becoming cows. Cows. Which were digested by humans. Anyway, comic logic aside I could see their peers being upset that these guys thought they could run the world in secret, I just don't see the Hulk banishment as a tipping point.

fumanstan

They shouldn't have sent Hulk because he's an American

dx23

I know it sounds funny, but the Civil War was mostly based on the rights super powered people had in the U.S. . If the writers are going to involve goverment laws and regulations, then it's only logical that they can't violate any American citizen's right, no matter what. Certainly, the Illuminati did that by playing judge and jury and sentencing Banner to exile without consulting the all-mighty government that was establishing the registration act.