December's Let's Talk Comics and Nothing Else Thread

bishop2knight · 2005-11-30 22:27:13

I like the sound of that spoiler since : Everything I have read sounds like the writer is going to make the mystery of Selena's pregnancy a long and drawn out story. Just get it over with! Tell us it's Bruce!

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12-25-05 | 10:49 PM

#176

MBoyd

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From: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke

I like the sound of that spoiler since :

Spoiler:

12-26-05 | 03:27 AM

#177

Giantrobo

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From: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region

But tell me this in relation to that spoiler and DC continuity both future and past:

Spoiler:

12-26-05 | 07:46 AM

#178

MBoyd

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From: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantrobo

But tell me this in relation to that spoiler and DC continuity both future and past:

Spoiler:

I could be wrong, but I think that those 2 or 3 Demon graphic novels have been considered out of continuity for awhile. I think they were in continuity when written though. And I'm pretty sure the past relationship with Talia is still in continuity.

12-26-05 | 08:44 AM

#179

Giantrobo

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From: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBoyd

Ok, but what about KINGDOM COME, apparently it more or less is in a future continuity. Which would mean that the Demon books are to seome degree in it too. So what does this mean for the character mentioned in my spoiler?

12-26-05 | 03:02 PM

#180

MBoyd

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From: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke

I don't see how Kingdom Come could be in any continuity, especially now that Mark Waid's hypertime has pretty much gone away. But of course with the Crisis going on all bet's are off. I think it's just a possible future and we can choose to include the Demon graphic novel's events or not in that or not. In the basic Batman/Detective comics they aren't ever referred to, but the Catwoman events will be part of continuity OYL.

Spoiler:

From Geoff Johns we saw what his idea of the future DCU was in recent Teen Titans comics. And since he is the architect of the DCU currently, I'd have to defer to that vision (at least this week) rather than Kingdom Come.

12-26-05 | 04:40 PM

#181

Jackskeleton

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From: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.

If you ever read any "Future" in comics.. assume it will never happen that way by the simple actions of the story arcs.

What ever happened to the man of tomorrow is a wonderful story.. but it will never happen. Titans of the future was cool but it's not going to happen. Kingdom come is not the DCU future. It's elseworlds and nothing more. Don't hold it as what will happen with the comic arcs.

12-27-05 | 08:53 AM

#182

Giantrobo

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From: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region

I understand the "Future storylines" in the comic industry shouldn't be taken too seriously. I also understand the "Elseworlds" concept. I'm also aware that right now anything is possible with a "Crisis" looming. I guess I was under the impression that "KC" was considered a "very possible" future in terms of being closer than most storylines.

I guess my point was since Bruce and Talia "hooked up" and their was something from that union I wondered what happened to the "something".

12-27-05 | 11:34 AM

#183

fujishig

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Ok, read through Days of Vengeance, or whatever that Countdown to Crisis trade was called. Another stinker, and the only connection it seems to have with Crisis is the blue beetle thing and the rock of eternity thing. Otherwise, it's basically Eclipso latches onto the hot-villain-of-the-week, easily convinces the Spectre to get rid of all magic and commit suicide, and a team of 4th string magic users is formed that pretty much do absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things. Oh, they can brag that they "beat" the Spectre, failing to mention that they had to use the power of every other magic user on Earth. Good job, guys. At least you got to WATCH how it all ended, not that you guys did anything to help. Geez. Can't wait for the umpteenth try at a magic-based superhero book that will fail in it's first year. As a bonus I got more Ian Churchill art.

So how's Rann-Thanagar War (and what's up with the new one-shot coming out) and Villains Inc.?

12-27-05 | 05:47 PM

#184

MBoyd

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From: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke

Rann-Thannagar was my least favorite. I enjoyed Day OF Vengence, but maybe I just had more patience for the plot because I liked the characters and their banter. Villains United is still the best IMHO and so far seems to have tied in the most with Crisis and other monthly books. I'll be picking up all one shots whoich I assume wrap up loose ends, tie into Crisis more and act as a bridge (advertisement) to the ongoing series coming up from those minis. Shadowpact, Ion, Checkmate and Suicide Squad (i think that's the one from Villains).

And in other news . . . did anyone see Superman/Batman #23 and All Star Batman and Robin #3 (AKA big train wreck that I'm loving to watch) are actually being shipped this week.

12-27-05 | 08:00 PM

#185

JasonF

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackskeleton

But Days of Future Past is going to happen, right?

12-27-05 | 08:02 PM

#186

JasonF

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MBoyd

Villains United is still the best IMHO and so far seems to have tied in the most with Crisis and other monthly books.

I just read Villains United and was thoroughly underwhelmed. If that's the best of the Countdown minis, I'm going to steer clear of the rest of them.

12-27-05 | 08:16 PM

#187

MovieExchange

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonF

I just read Villains United and was thoroughly underwhelmed. If that's the best of the Countdown minis, I'm going to steer clear of the rest of them.

Villains was second best. Bill Willingham's work on Day of Vengeance was better.

12-27-05 | 09:09 PM

#188

Stoney

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I'm thinking of picking up the Infinite Crisis stuff, but is there anything I should read first? Should I just wait for the trade with everything all together?

12-28-05 | 11:00 AM

#189

boredsilly

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MBoyd

And in other news . . . did anyone see Superman/Batman #23 and All Star Batman and Robin #3 (AKA big train wreck that I'm loving to watch) are actually being shipped this week.

[Balke from Another 48 Hours] Get the **** out of here![/Balke from Another 48 Hours]. That's great news about Superman/Batman as the last page of issue 22 was a bit of a geek gasm for me. Can't wait to see what they do with that. All Star Batman and Robin...I'll probably read it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney

I'm thinking of picking up the Infinite Crisis stuff, but is there anything I should read first? Should I just wait for the trade with everything all together?

That book would be about 3 feet thick. What would probably be a better option is reading one of the online guides that show you how everything came to get here since they've been building up to this for a few years now. Newsarama has had some good comprehensive stuff that has gone all the way back to the 40's that look at how things came to be and IGN has a more current look at the happenings.

The things that are very obvious tie ins that lead directly into the crisis and not just loosely related to it are Identity Crisis, Countdown to Infinite Crisis, the four minis (Vills United, OMAC, Days of V, Rann/Thann - some of which I skipped for lack of interest, but everyone says they're important) which are all covered in the IGN guide. Different people will tell you different things that should be read so that varies to the person who just wants an overview of whats going down to the person who wants to see every single reference. I mean you could look at the current runs of Batman, Superman/Batman, Teen Titans, Outsiders, and Wonder Woman among others too, but that's a boat load of reading. I would say Identity Crisis is a good place to start.

Last edited by boredsilly; 12-28-05 at 11:09 AM.

12-28-05 | 11:21 AM

#190

Chew

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From: South of Titletown

I'd say Crisis on Infinite Earths is also required reading.

JWP: the first of my two Crisis copies arrived. I expect the second from Buy.com by the end of the week. Are you still interested, or do I return the one from Buy?

12-28-05 | 11:25 AM

#191

boredsilly

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chew

I'd say Crisis on Infinite Earths is also required reading.

Doh! Just call me Captain (forget the) Obvious. Though I do think a lot of the context of that story is lost (or at least it was on me) reading it so after the fact.

12-28-05 | 11:45 AM

#192

Stoney

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From: West Lafayette, IN, USA

Yah, I've read Crisis on Infinite Earths...just not too versed in the recent crisis stuff. I'll go out and pick up the Identity Crisis trade and go from there. Thanks for the guide suggestion.

12-28-05 | 11:52 AM

#193

Chew

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Quote:

Originally Posted by boredsilly

Though I do think a lot of the context of that story is lost (or at least it was on me) reading it so after the fact.

That's why I can't wait to dive into the Absolute Edition in which the second volume discusses all of that context.

I figure Infinite Crisis is one of those rare titles I'll be keeping the issues handy for re-reads.

12-28-05 | 12:15 PM

#194

fujishig

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Hmm... I now realize that some parts of the OMAC TPB are actually pages from Countdown to Infinite Crisis (and Wonderwoman). I can't imagine reading just the miniseries and not this other stuff. So I'd wait for the trades, so you don't have to pick up every single issue that might possibly be tied into IC. They do a good job of collecting them. Though JSA Classified (at least the first arc with Power Girl) also seems like a must read, and to my knowledge a collection hasn't been announced. And there is a new trade solicited for the Donna Troy miniseries (unfortunately they bundled it up with the horrific Titans/YJ miniseries where a Superman robot... nevermind)

Day of Vengeance was the best mini? Really? I like the magic users of the DC universe... I think I was one of the only five people to pick up both the last Ragman series and Primal Force. But I doubt I'll pick up whatever spins out of this series. I admit, the narration was pretty well-done, but the "team" doesn't really do much to affect what happens. BTW, anyone know where Black Alice originally came from? She's the only one without an intro in the trade.

12-28-05 | 12:28 PM

#195

boredsilly

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chew

Maybe I need to pick that up.

12-28-05 | 12:34 PM

#196

bishop2knight

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From: Denver

Chew, how much would it be, delivered? I'd love to read it, but I'm wary. Hate to spend too much for something that won't make that much sense.

12-28-05 | 12:47 PM

#197

Chew

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Since I would have to spend the money on return shipping anyway, I'll split the difference between how much I paid for my second copy and the Buy.com copy: $53 shipped (via paypal?).

As to the "making sense", I would say that's what the second volume is for.

But, that's for you to decide.

Quote:

The 96-page Book Two contains a compendium featuring the full behind-the scenes story on the making of the maxiseries, complete with memos, notes, original plots and commentary from Wolfman and Ordway; the Official Index to Crisis and Official Index to Crisis crossovers being reprinted for the very first time, completely updated; a look into post-Crisis events; how the Superboy/Legion conundrum was solved, and a look at the 20th anniversary of this seminal event.

12-28-05 | 06:36 PM

#198

MBoyd

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From: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke

Crazy Crazy rumors and spoilers here!

Spoiler:

Seems those that theory about Bruce Wayne becoming the Spectre's new host may have validity because...BATMAN DIES! Apparently, he gets shot by somebody (although the poster doesn't say, I think he's talking about Hush) who has somehow obtained the very same gun that killed Bruce's parents. Batman survives, but is wounded by a bullet and is forced to kill the guy in self-defense (sounds just like something Lieberman would come up with). Then during Infinite Crisis, Batman confronts the Joker (who, I assume, also "dies" due to a explosion, no trace of a body, the usual) but during the stuggle, Batman reopens his bullet wound and starts bleeding to death. Before he dies, he manages to say his good-byes and passes the mantle on to Dick Grayson (Now if there's any truth to this--which I hope there isn't--then I suspect that the grave that gets violated according to Wizard is Bruce Wayne's. The culprit is Talia who seeks to resurrect her "beloved" via a Lazarus Pit. This will prompt the new Batman and Robin's year long absence from Gotham in order to search for the body a la Star Trek III:The Search for Spock Meanwhile, Bruce is the Spectre during 52 until he's brought back to life and will end up wandering the globe within the pages of Detective Comics while we follow Dick's adventures in Batman. That is, until Bruce returns to Gotham, reclaims the mantle from an injured Dick, just in time for the sequel to Batman Begins.)
--Jason Todd WILL BE the new Nightwing and relocate his base of operations to New York City.
--Tim Drake will still be Robin, but is now more jaded...which hints at how he ended up being in the "Titans Tomorrow" arc.
--The father of Catwoman's baby IS Bruce Wayne and it's a girl who Selina names--surprise, surprise--Helena.
--Not only is the Earth-2 Superman a patsy, but so are Earth-Prime Superboy and Alexander Luthor, all of whom are being manipulated by what's left of the Anti-Monitor, who is revealed to be LOIS LANE FROM EARTH 2. Seems the Anti-Monitor/Lois is going to use Alex's machine to reconsitute itself. Kal-L gets wise to this and ends up sacrificing himself to destroy the Anti-Monitor once and for all. As a result, the "darkness" in the post-crisis universe is dispelled.
--Another side-effect of this is certain people who were dead come back including:
--Ted Kord, who serves as a mentor for the new Blue Beetle and...
The replacement for Jay Garrick on the JSA...Barry Allen.

I love them! I can't get enough of the speculation! This is how I felt in 1996-1997 with Episode 1 spoilers!

edit: fixed dead link with text

Last edited by MBoyd; 12-29-05 at 09:31 PM.

12-28-05 | 06:49 PM

#199

bishop2knight

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From: Denver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chew

But, that's for you to decide.

Chew, how long are you willing to hold on to the copy? I'm willing to pay that price, but I need to wait until A) my next paycheck, or B) I win my fantasy football chapionship this weekend and get paid for that.

So, within 2.5 weeks. Will that suffice?