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Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

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Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Old 07-17-09, 07:41 PM
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Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

I think I'll stick with my physical media, thank you very much!!


http://mashable.com/2009/07/17/amazon-kindle-1984/
Old 07-17-09, 07:48 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Short version:

Mobilereference sold 1984 while it's still copyrighted and not being the copyright holders.

The copyright holders contacted Amazon.

Amazon deleted the copies off the Kindles and refunded the purchase price to customers.
Old 07-17-09, 07:49 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
Short version:

Mobilereference sold 1984 while it's still copyrighted and not being the copyright holders.

The copyright holders contacted Amazon.

Amazon deleted the copies off the Kindles and refunded the purchase price to customers.
That's not what the article says. It cites publisher change of heart.
Old 07-17-09, 07:51 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Don't believe everything you read

Thread at mobileread.com (not to be confused with MobileReference):

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51167
Old 07-17-09, 07:53 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
Don't believe everything you read

Thread at mobileread.com (not to be confused with MobileReference):

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51167
I don't.

I thought you were summarizing the article and simply made a mistake (since you didn't cite anything at the time).
Old 07-17-09, 07:53 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

So what

After purchase a party changing its mind and taking away YOUR PROPERTY (I dont give a fuck what the EULA says) is bullshit

That does it

No kindle for me ever
Old 07-17-09, 07:56 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez View Post
So what

After purchase a party changing its mind and taking away YOUR PROPERTY (I dont give a fuck what the EULA says) is bullshit

That does it

No kindle for me ever
I believe the solution should have been:

-Removal of the item from the kindle store by amazon.
-Customers (who purchased it in good-faith) get to keep product.
-Retainer of IP rights sues and recovers profits from existing sales and damages.

EDIT: That's assuming that what Deb said is true. Sorry, Deb, I don't feel like looking through the thread you linked to.
Old 07-17-09, 07:58 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by awil1026 View Post
I believe the solution should have been:

-Removal of the item from the kindle store by amazon.
-Customers (who purchased it in good-faith) get to keep product.
-Retainer of IP rights sues and recovers profits from existing sales and damages.
As in


every other retail fuck up ever?
Old 07-17-09, 07:58 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Someone at Mobileread gave this example:

You have a Lexus. Someone steals it. That person sells it to a third person. The police find the third person. Who does the car belong to? YOU.

I see nothing wrong with it since they refunded the purchase price.
Old 07-17-09, 08:02 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
Someone at Mobileread gave this example:

You have a Lexus. Someone steals it. That person sells it to a third person. The police find the third person. Who does the car belong to? YOU.

I see nothing wrong with it since they refunded the purchase price.
That example is inapposite. The property that is owned in your example is tangible, the car. The property owned in the case of 1984 is a right, the right to publish it. The right was violated; that doesn't mean tangible property was stolen.
Old 07-17-09, 08:08 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
inapposite
Wow, that's actually a word! Learn something new every day.
Old 07-17-09, 08:10 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Wow, this is like something out of George Orwell novel.
Old 07-17-09, 08:16 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Wow, this is like something out of George Orwell novel.
It really is just like Animal Farm isn't it?
Old 07-17-09, 11:21 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

That's why I don't go for any sort of downloadable media- suppose all movies were only available through download, and then Disney kept doing the moratorium thing with their classics, putting them out just for a few months every few years. That would mean they'd be able to stop you from being able to watch those movies while they were off the market, whereas now as long as you have an old copy you can watch it forever.
Old 07-17-09, 11:28 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Man, I hate these kinds of legal issues. It's annoying like when a song was on a tv show, and tv show makes it to dvd, then song owner complains. Neither side budges and DVDs are taken off shelf while fans moan.
Old 07-17-09, 11:54 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

That's kind of scary that they can remotely delete a book from your device.
Old 07-17-09, 11:57 PM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
Someone at Mobileread gave this example:

You have a Lexus. Someone steals it. That person sells it to a third person. The police find the third person. Who does the car belong to? YOU.

I see nothing wrong with it since they refunded the purchase price.
Soul-less corporations need more customers like you.
Old 07-18-09, 12:49 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
Someone at Mobileread gave this example:

You have a Lexus. Someone steals it. That person sells it to a third person. The police find the third person. Who does the car belong to? YOU.

I see nothing wrong with it since they refunded the purchase price.
Accepting, arguendo, this line of reasoning, you're papering over the real issue here -- Amazon has the power to reach into your Kindle and delete books that you purchased. Even if you think Amazon's actions were justified in this particular case, do you trust them to never use this power in a way you disagree with? Do you trust that if they ever decide the ebook business isn't taking off, that the books you "purchased" won't suddenly disappear? That's pretty much what happened the last time they tried it -- they shut down the authorization servers, so you couldn't transfer your ebooks to a new device.
Old 07-18-09, 12:54 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
Short version:

Mobilereference sold 1984 while it's still copyrighted and not being the copyright holders.

The copyright holders contacted Amazon.

Amazon deleted the copies off the Kindles and refunded the purchase price to customers.
so, did you get refunded, twice, one for each kindle?
Old 07-18-09, 01:46 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

This is going to stop me from getting a Kindle, until at least I can store my purchases on my own medium, far away from grabby vendors.
Old 07-18-09, 01:55 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

The Kindle never appealed to me to begin with. I'd much rather have a physical copy of any medium. This type of story just reaffirms that.

Imagine how pissed you'd be if you were most of the way through the book, and then it got taken away.
Old 07-18-09, 02:10 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

What appealed to me was the convenience and ease of book browsing and purchase. I wasn't aware of the ease of losing your books
Old 07-18-09, 02:22 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

So you can't back up a Kindle on another source?
Old 07-18-09, 02:30 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

I think it would be great if everyone who had a Kindle returned theirs as defective with the reason listed as "Woke up this morning and my copies of 1984 and Animal Farm were gone!" I think Amazon would get the message pretty quick.

But yes, the idea that Amazon can at any time remove books you've purchased (even if they give a refund) is enough for me to never buy a Kindle. I do have the Kindle app on my iPhone, but only use it for free books.
Old 07-18-09, 02:59 AM
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Re: Amazon remotely deletes "1984" from Kindles

What a huge mistake by Amazon. People are already hesitant to switch to digital media (music is the only format that has really started to transition), and actions like this just solidify that reluctance. Now they have an even bigger fight ahead because people will always cite this as an example.

Looks like they have said this won't happen again

http://mashable.com/2009/07/17/amazon-remote-delete/

Last edited by msdmoney; 07-18-09 at 03:02 AM.

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