Harry Potter is evil, discuss.
12-06-01 | 05:58 PM
#26
DVD Talk Hero
draven-x, that was an excellent and very articulate statement. I am Christian and I agree completely with your assessment. In every group, there exists a small, yet very vocal, contingency that usually comes up with the most ridiculous things to say. This protest reminds me of the early '80s Dungeons & Dragons "scare" which had all of the same knuckleheads claiming that D&D would turn everyone's kids into sorcerers & Satanists.
12-07-01 | 02:53 AM
#27
DVD Talk Hero
He he he! I kept the Chick tract explaining that D&D was evil in my D&D notebook.
A Baptist minister recently had a letter published in our paper. He said that Harry Potter was evil, for the usual reasons. Then he went on to say that the movies "Wizard of Oz" and "Snow White" weren't satanic because they were clearly fantasy.
I think that this argument boils down to: "We watched Wizard of Oz when we were kids and we were smart enough to know it was a fantasy. But kids today are just too stoopid."
A Baptist minister recently had a letter published in our paper. He said that Harry Potter was evil, for the usual reasons. Then he went on to say that the movies "Wizard of Oz" and "Snow White" weren't satanic because they were clearly fantasy.
I think that this argument boils down to: "We watched Wizard of Oz when we were kids and we were smart enough to know it was a fantasy. But kids today are just too stoopid."
12-27-01 | 10:10 PM
#28
DVD Talk Hero
This just in:
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/reuters/asia-80672.html
I wonder where they get the books? Are parents at the church taking them away from their kids? What happens if no one shows up with the books? Can I bring marshmallows?
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/reuters/asia-80672.html
I wonder where they get the books? Are parents at the church taking them away from their kids? What happens if no one shows up with the books? Can I bring marshmallows?
12-30-01 | 05:51 AM
#29
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From: The Appian Way by way of Birmingham, AL
Until Halloween, an utterly blasphemous holiday (which I love, heretic that I am 
) that, I believe, was mostly observed by the wildly heretical Druids, is outlawed, Harry Potter will thrive and rightfully so. Goodness forbid kids actually use their imaginations. FWIW, I grew up in east Tennessee and there were some fools that labeled The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Alice in Wonderland and The Wizard of Oz as "evil" and their claims didn't last too long so I don't feel a lot of anxiety at what the Harry Potter books are going through.
) that, I believe, was mostly observed by the wildly heretical Druids, is outlawed, Harry Potter will thrive and rightfully so. Goodness forbid kids actually use their imaginations. FWIW, I grew up in east Tennessee and there were some fools that labeled The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Alice in Wonderland and The Wizard of Oz as "evil" and their claims didn't last too long so I don't feel a lot of anxiety at what the Harry Potter books are going through.
01-03-02 | 11:27 AM
#30
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From: The Great White North.
Again, I don't think Harry Potter is evil, but you can't really compare it to Snow White or the Wizard of Oz. In both of those stories, the witch is considered 'evil', and is killed. Harry Potter's world is more closely linked to our own, is it not, and (forgive me if I'm mistaken here) being a witch does not mean you're 'evil'?
Considering those points, the religious right has -some- validity to their argument. In Potter's world, witches may not be evil, but in most other forms of fiction they are; Christians are concerned that something considered evil is now being taught as being 'okay'.
I'm not in the book-burning camp, but being a Christian, I can see why some have an issue.
Considering those points, the religious right has -some- validity to their argument. In Potter's world, witches may not be evil, but in most other forms of fiction they are; Christians are concerned that something considered evil is now being taught as being 'okay'.
I'm not in the book-burning camp, but being a Christian, I can see why some have an issue.
01-03-02 | 11:38 AM
#31
Moderator
Originally posted by Skywa|ker
Considering those points, the religious right has -some- validity to their argument. In Potter's world, witches may not be evil, but in most other forms of fiction they are; Christians are concerned that something considered evil is now being taught as being 'okay'.
Considering those points, the religious right has -some- validity to their argument. In Potter's world, witches may not be evil, but in most other forms of fiction they are; Christians are concerned that something considered evil is now being taught as being 'okay'.
In both Harry Potter and the The Wizard of Oz magic is a tool. As such it is neither inherently good, nor inherently evil. Both stories are about the stuggle between good and evil, with a clear bias towards the good characters. What's wrong with that? In fact, Harry Potter is often labeled as a "Satanist" but if you read the books it is revealed that he is a Christian. Oops.
One argument put out by Christians against Harry Potter is that witchcraft is strictly forbidden by the Bible. So is eating swine, but I don't see them protesting every movie that features a character eating a ham sandwich!
01-03-02 | 12:05 PM
#32
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From: The Great White North.
Groucho...
This is true for the Isrealites in the first part of the Bible, but later in the Bible that sanction is lifted. The saction against witchcraft is still firmly in place by the end of Revelation.
I was in no way suggesting that Harry Potter series were the first books to portray witchcraft as good. The fact that the books are so popular, however, especially amoung children, is making them a target.
And Glenda aside, my point regarding comparing Snow White/OZ and Potter still stands.
One argument put out by Christians against Harry Potter is that witchcraft is strictly forbidden by the Bible. So is eating swine, but I don't see them protesting every movie that features a character eating a ham sandwich!
This is true for the Isrealites in the first part of the Bible, but later in the Bible that sanction is lifted. The saction against witchcraft is still firmly in place by the end of Revelation.
I was in no way suggesting that Harry Potter series were the first books to portray witchcraft as good. The fact that the books are so popular, however, especially amoung children, is making them a target.
And Glenda aside, my point regarding comparing Snow White/OZ and Potter still stands.
Last edited by Skywa|ker; 01-03-02 at 02:21 PM.
01-03-02 | 12:22 PM
#33
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Originally posted by Skywa|ker
Groucho...
And Glenda aside, my point regarding comparing Sleeping B./OZ and Potter still stands.
Groucho...
And Glenda aside, my point regarding comparing Sleeping B./OZ and Potter still stands.
Actually, in Sleeping Beauty, there are three good fairies that perform lots of magic in that movie. Wouldn't they fall under the same "satanist" catagory? All of these movies have good and bad witches/magic-users in them. So it's really not a good comparison.
X
01-03-02 | 12:54 PM
#34
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From: The Great White North.
Wouldn't they fall under the same "satanist" catagory?
No, I was referring to the former stories being fairy tales, the latter being more grounded in 'our' world, and the point that the witches in fairy tales are usually classified as 'evil'. (I don't recall any broomstick-riding, black-clad, magic-using witches being good guys in my childhood fairy tales.)
01-03-02 | 01:00 PM
#35
Uber Member
Originally posted by Skywa|ker
Considering those points, the religious right has -some- validity to their argument. In Potter's world, witches may not be evil, but in most other forms of fiction they are; Christians are concerned that something considered evil is now being taught as being 'okay'.
Considering those points, the religious right has -some- validity to their argument. In Potter's world, witches may not be evil, but in most other forms of fiction they are; Christians are concerned that something considered evil is now being taught as being 'okay'.
And despite this portrayal of the shadings of good and evil, the book still firmly comes out on the side of being good.
I think one of the better examples of why most religious folk who object to Harry Potter are mistaken is the lack of attention paid to the Lord of the Rings books and movies. Here again is a fantasy world with both good and bad magic users. And here again is a story that shows good winning out over bad.
Now, if you want to object to ALL fantasy stories involving magic, simply because they involve magic, then I can see a point. I disagree with it, but it would be consistent.
-David
01-03-02 | 04:11 PM
#36
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Ahhhh....time for another good old fashion book burning. Society just took another giant leap backwards. The problem with most fundamentalists is that they won't read anything unless it is the bible or a book about the bible.
01-03-02 | 06:15 PM
#37
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As a Christian, I think parents should NOT hide the World from their kids.
Harry Potter books should open dialog between parent and child concerning subject matter in the book.
How can you go wrong with this method of parenting?
Harry Potter books should open dialog between parent and child concerning subject matter in the book.
How can you go wrong with this method of parenting?
01-03-02 | 06:16 PM
#38
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From: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Originally posted by Trout
Ahhhh....The problem with most fundamentalists is that they won't read anything unless it is the bible or a book about the bible.
Ahhhh....The problem with most fundamentalists is that they won't read anything unless it is the bible or a book about the bible.
Sadly...I agee
01-11-02 | 04:52 PM
#39
DVD Talk Legend
I'm a Christian.. and though I have never read any of the Harry Potter books, I have seen the movie. I saw nothing evil or wrong about it (except maybe the director. ). I enjoyed the movie and would and have recommended it to my Christian (and non-Christian) friends.
Someone starts something...and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon... Then it becomes the "in" thing to do in some small circles.. I'm just waiting for these radicals to ban Christmas because of its pagan roots.. ... oh wait.. they already have.. nevermind.
). I enjoyed the movie and would and have recommended it to my Christian (and non-Christian) friends.Someone starts something...and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon... Then it becomes the "in" thing to do in some small circles.. I'm just waiting for these radicals to ban Christmas because of its pagan roots.. ... oh wait.. they already have.. nevermind.
01-12-02 | 02:16 PM
#40
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Groucho
Uh oh...
Harry Potter Books Spark Rise In Satanism Among Children
From the article:
Uh oh...
Harry Potter Books Spark Rise In Satanism Among Children
From the article:
01-13-02 | 09:46 AM
#41
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Trout
... The problem with most fundamentalists is that they won't read anything unless it is the bible or a book about the bible.
... The problem with most fundamentalists is that they won't read anything unless it is the bible or a book about the bible.
01-14-02 | 12:56 PM
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From: Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada
A little off topic...
It seems like these sort of religion-based discussions occur quite often in message-boards and forums around the 'net.
I happen to find them quite fascinating, yet at the same time, have some trouble absorbing all the various different sides to different arguments. Consequently, I'm wondering if perhaps anyone knows of a good book on the subject of religion and all aspects (such as good vs. evil, belief vs. non-belief, etc.)
I'm thinking along the lines of a scholarly sort of book that attempts to present both sides fairly.
Anyone have any suggestions?
I happen to find them quite fascinating, yet at the same time, have some trouble absorbing all the various different sides to different arguments. Consequently, I'm wondering if perhaps anyone knows of a good book on the subject of religion and all aspects (such as good vs. evil, belief vs. non-belief, etc.)
I'm thinking along the lines of a scholarly sort of book that attempts to present both sides fairly.
Anyone have any suggestions?
01-15-02 | 01:31 PM
#43
DVD Talk Legend
Geoff..
are you talking about books on Religion in general? You're not likely to find a completely unbiased one.. even on a scholarly level. You'll likely find that the author(s) will present their ideas along the same lines they believe in.
You'd probably be better off checking out some Secular & Religious books on the subject. Instead of just one book... There are many Christian books on the subject of good and evil, etc... Written by very educated men.
are you talking about books on Religion in general? You're not likely to find a completely unbiased one.. even on a scholarly level. You'll likely find that the author(s) will present their ideas along the same lines they believe in.
You'd probably be better off checking out some Secular & Religious books on the subject. Instead of just one book... There are many Christian books on the subject of good and evil, etc... Written by very educated men.
01-15-02 | 07:14 PM
#44
DVD Talk Hero
Re: A little off topic...
Originally posted by Geoff H
It seems like these sort of religion-based discussions occur quite often in message-boards and forums around the 'net.
I happen to find them quite fascinating, yet at the same time, have some trouble absorbing all the various different sides to different arguments. Consequently, I'm wondering if perhaps anyone knows of a good book on the subject of religion and all aspects (such as good vs. evil, belief vs. non-belief, etc.)
I'm thinking along the lines of a scholarly sort of book that attempts to present both sides fairly.
Anyone have any suggestions?
It seems like these sort of religion-based discussions occur quite often in message-boards and forums around the 'net.
I happen to find them quite fascinating, yet at the same time, have some trouble absorbing all the various different sides to different arguments. Consequently, I'm wondering if perhaps anyone knows of a good book on the subject of religion and all aspects (such as good vs. evil, belief vs. non-belief, etc.)
I'm thinking along the lines of a scholarly sort of book that attempts to present both sides fairly.
Anyone have any suggestions?
07-13-05 | 12:34 PM
#45
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Bump up for Bandoman's post in the other thread:
Link:
Link:
RIMSTING, Germany, July 13, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - LifeSiteNews.com has obtained and made available online copies of two letters sent by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was recently elected Pope, to a German critic of the Harry Potter novels. In March 2003, a month after the English press throughout the world falsely proclaimed that Pope John Paul II approved of Harry Potter, the man who was to become his successor sent a letter to a Gabriele Kuby outlining his agreement with her opposition to J.K. Rowling's offerings. (See below for links to scanned copies of the letters signed by Cardinal Ratzinger.)
As the sixth issue of Rowling's Harry Potter series - Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - is about to be released, the news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger expressed serious reservations about the novels is now finally being revealed to the English-speaking world still under the impression the Vatican approves the Potter novels.
In a letter dated March 7, 2003 Cardinal Ratzinger thanked Kuby for her "instructive" book Harry Potter - gut oder böse (Harry Potter- good or evil?), in which Kuby says the Potter books corrupt the hearts of the young, preventing them from developing a properly ordered sense of good and evil, thus harming their relationship with God while that relationship is still in its infancy.
"It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger.
The letter also encouraged Kuby to send her book on Potter to the Vatican prelate who quipped about Potter during a press briefing which led to the false press about the Vatican support of Potter. At a Vatican press conference to present a study document on the New Age in April 2003, one of the presenters - Fr. Peter Fleedwood - made a positive comment on the Harry Potter books in response to a question from a reporter. Headlines such as "Pope Approves Potter" (Toronto Star), "Pope Sticks Up for Potter Books" (BBC), "Harry Potter Is Ok With The Pontiff" (Chicago Sun Times) and "Vatican: Harry Potter's OK with us" (CNN Asia) littered the mainstream media.
In a second letter sent to Kuby on May 27, 2003, Cardinal Ratzinger "gladly" gave his permission to Kuby to make public "my judgement about Harry Potter."
The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O'Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the "judgement" of now-Pope Benedict saying, "This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father's depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment." O'Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, "it is consistent with many of the statements he's been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing spiritual warfare that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him."
English translations of the two letters by Cardinal Ratzinger follow:
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
March 7, 2003
Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby!
Many thanks for your kind letter of February 20th and the informative book which you sent me in the same mail. It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.
I would like to suggest that you write to Mr. Peter Fleedwood, (Pontifical Council of Culture, Piazza S. Calisto 16, I00153 Rome) directly and to send him your book.
Sincere Greetings and Blessings,
+ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
=======================
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
May 27, 2003
Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby,
Somehow your letter got buried in the large pile of name-day , birthday and Easter mail. Finally this pile is taken care of, so that I can gladly allow you to refer to my judgment about Harry Potter.
Sincere Greetings and Blessings,
+ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
As the sixth issue of Rowling's Harry Potter series - Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - is about to be released, the news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger expressed serious reservations about the novels is now finally being revealed to the English-speaking world still under the impression the Vatican approves the Potter novels.
In a letter dated March 7, 2003 Cardinal Ratzinger thanked Kuby for her "instructive" book Harry Potter - gut oder böse (Harry Potter- good or evil?), in which Kuby says the Potter books corrupt the hearts of the young, preventing them from developing a properly ordered sense of good and evil, thus harming their relationship with God while that relationship is still in its infancy.
"It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger.
The letter also encouraged Kuby to send her book on Potter to the Vatican prelate who quipped about Potter during a press briefing which led to the false press about the Vatican support of Potter. At a Vatican press conference to present a study document on the New Age in April 2003, one of the presenters - Fr. Peter Fleedwood - made a positive comment on the Harry Potter books in response to a question from a reporter. Headlines such as "Pope Approves Potter" (Toronto Star), "Pope Sticks Up for Potter Books" (BBC), "Harry Potter Is Ok With The Pontiff" (Chicago Sun Times) and "Vatican: Harry Potter's OK with us" (CNN Asia) littered the mainstream media.
In a second letter sent to Kuby on May 27, 2003, Cardinal Ratzinger "gladly" gave his permission to Kuby to make public "my judgement about Harry Potter."
The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O'Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the "judgement" of now-Pope Benedict saying, "This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father's depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment." O'Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, "it is consistent with many of the statements he's been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing spiritual warfare that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him."
English translations of the two letters by Cardinal Ratzinger follow:
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
March 7, 2003
Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby!
Many thanks for your kind letter of February 20th and the informative book which you sent me in the same mail. It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.
I would like to suggest that you write to Mr. Peter Fleedwood, (Pontifical Council of Culture, Piazza S. Calisto 16, I00153 Rome) directly and to send him your book.
Sincere Greetings and Blessings,
+ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
=======================
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
May 27, 2003
Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby,
Somehow your letter got buried in the large pile of name-day , birthday and Easter mail. Finally this pile is taken care of, so that I can gladly allow you to refer to my judgment about Harry Potter.
Sincere Greetings and Blessings,
+ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Last edited by Kal-El; 07-13-05 at 12:37 PM.
07-14-05 | 12:26 AM
#48
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by kvrdave
I wasn't sure if this got bumped or whether it was still on the first page because this is book talk. 
Man, 2002 was the last time I posted in this thread. What a trip down memory lane...
Oh, and people who say Harry Potter books are evil are still assholes. I couldn't say "assholes" back then...
07-14-05 | 02:49 PM
#49
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally Posted by DodgingCars
Someone starts something...and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon... Then it becomes the "in" thing to do in some small circles..
couldn't have said it better myself.
wlj
07-16-05 | 02:39 AM
#50
DVD Talk Legend