The increasingly tricky business of video games
#176
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
But don't you think the "giant Corporate parent company" has at least some say in that decision or is at least briefed so they know what is going on?
I just don't understand the thought process that everyone in the business is completely ignorant of how the streaming model works, especially when it is their decision to join said streaming model and they don't have to, especially on high tier games on release date.
I just don't understand the thought process that everyone in the business is completely ignorant of how the streaming model works, especially when it is their decision to join said streaming model and they don't have to, especially on high tier games on release date.
Yes, I know games and movies are different, but since movie financials are much easier to find and more transparent than video game grosses, it's an easier example. And like I said, Disney had total say in the strategy, and that strategy benefitted their streaming platform at the same time it hurt their animation studio, which provides content for the streaming service.
#177
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Layoffs at Polygon and Giant Bomb happened today too. Games media is taking a big hit too.
https://kotaku.com/polygon-sold-vox-...ing-1851778655
https://kotaku.com/giant-bomb-fandom...ann-1851778728
I loved Giant Bomb. I hate that Grubb and Ryckert are gone.
https://kotaku.com/polygon-sold-vox-...ing-1851778655
https://kotaku.com/giant-bomb-fandom...ann-1851778728
I loved Giant Bomb. I hate that Grubb and Ryckert are gone.
#178
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Another studio shutters and another superhero game gets canceled.
#179
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
I honestly didn't even remember there was a Black Panther game in development...
The following users liked this post:
Music (05-28-25)
#180
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
More layoffs at People Can Fly.


#181
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
I am starting to wonder how any new video games are created and if, by chance, they are created, do they all lose money?
#182
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Had to Google "People Can Fly". Never played any of their games, or even heard of most of them.
#183
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games

#184
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
More Xbox layoffs incoming, per Jason Schreier at Bloomberg:
Microsoft Corp. will conduct another round of major layoffs in its Xbox division next week as part of a company-wide reorganization.
Managers within Xbox are expecting substantial cuts across the entire group, according to people familiar with the plans who asked not to be identified discussing nonpublic information. The company declined to comment.
This will be the fourth big layoff at Xbox in the past 18 months, following three major cuts last year and the closure of several subsidiaries. Xbox, which produces video-game hardware and software, has been under pressure from Microsoft executives to boost profit margins since purchasing Activision Blizzard Inc. for $69 billion in a deal that closed in 2023.
Managers within Xbox are expecting substantial cuts across the entire group, according to people familiar with the plans who asked not to be identified discussing nonpublic information. The company declined to comment.
This will be the fourth big layoff at Xbox in the past 18 months, following three major cuts last year and the closure of several subsidiaries. Xbox, which produces video-game hardware and software, has been under pressure from Microsoft executives to boost profit margins since purchasing Activision Blizzard Inc. for $69 billion in a deal that closed in 2023.
#185
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
^ 9000 layoffs across Microsoft!
Rare's game Ever wild is canceled
Rare's game Ever wild is canceled
#186
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Zenimax's new MMORPG has been cancelled too.
#187
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
It gets worse....
#188
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
And they’re shuttering The Initiative (so Perfect Dark is cancelled), and Turn 10 looks to basically be a Horizon support studio now.
#189
DVD Talk God
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Awful news and I hate to see anyone lose their jobs. Especially in video games, which is not some cakewalk profession. The marketplace is just getting tougher and tougher.
#190
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
And maybe, just maybe, prominently, featuring a business model, designed specifically to undermine the sales of eighty to ninety percent of your AAA exclusive games at launch might be hurting the bottom lines of the studios you own?
#191
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Microsoft leadership believes (or at least believed) strongly in Game Pass, given MS' emphasis on being a services-based company rather than a buy-it-and-"own"-it-product-based company.
The math for Game Pass makes sense in at least some respects, but it only really works with continuous, rapid growth and reaching an audience that aren't already avid gamers (many/most of whom don't even own a console), and that hasn't been the case at all.
The following users liked this post:
Dan (07-02-25)
#192
DVD Talk God
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Somehow this showed up on my X feed. An Xbox senior employee announces he lost his job. Bummer 

#193
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
I'll be the asshole for a moment and say that maybe- just maybe, selling out your studio to a massive corporation isn't in the best interest of the company long term. It truly sucks for the employees that are just pawns in the corporate game, but hopefully up and coming studios are taking note and aren't so quick to sell out.
#194
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
True. In some (not most… I don’t know… but probably not) non-tech industries, companies buying out other companies can generally lead to some stability and meaningful growth. But tech, and video games in particular, is so volatile. I think smaller companies are realizing they might just be better off doing their own thing and partnering with distributors rather than consolidating.
The problem lies with companies choosing to accept buyouts instead of telling the big companies to pound sand. That’s on their management, because ultimately, nobody is stopping the big companies from making offers. That’s what they do. I’m not excusing it, just stating what’s expected of them.
But, when those smaller companies are big enough to have their own board of directors, they’re more likely to take a buyout because the boards usually only care about the money.
However, more importantly, I think nobody in the industry was prepared for just how disruptive free to play games would be over the last decade. I think Adam shared data a few months ago, showing that there’s like five big games, and then a massive drop to everything else. The fact is that aside from some tentpole titles, basically nobody is buying more than a handful of games, if that.
in the music industry, people seem to forget that subscription models came about in response to a complete and utter deflation of the market. Piracy reigned supreme and barely anyone was buying music anymore. These days, there’s some slight resurgence in physical ownership, especially among those that never gave up on it, but music piracy is… not dead, but inconvenient enough that the vast majority of people don’t bother.
Back to games, I’m not saying free to play is exactly like piracy, but it’s kind of the same vibe if that makes sense. There’s millions of gamers who have zero interest in buying games outright, and also see no need for a subscription if all they’re playing is a couple free to play games each year.
When the choice is $80 for game X, or $0 to keep playing game Y’s latest season, then game Y isn’t just good enough, it’s exactly what they want.
Subscriptions are a bit different in that they have not become the default like with music, and I think that’s only somewhat because of the remaining people who want to own every game. I think the bigger reason is that, as said, the biggest chunk of gaming time is spent on free to play games and there’s zero incentive for those gamers to buy into a subscription for games they’ll never touch.
I think that’s why the industry is at this major pivoting point, where good and great studios just can’t keep up, and where the giant companies make massive cuts to appease only the shareholders, and where subscriptions have flattened while free to play only thrives for the lucky few titles that find an audience in any given year.
The problem lies with companies choosing to accept buyouts instead of telling the big companies to pound sand. That’s on their management, because ultimately, nobody is stopping the big companies from making offers. That’s what they do. I’m not excusing it, just stating what’s expected of them.
But, when those smaller companies are big enough to have their own board of directors, they’re more likely to take a buyout because the boards usually only care about the money.
However, more importantly, I think nobody in the industry was prepared for just how disruptive free to play games would be over the last decade. I think Adam shared data a few months ago, showing that there’s like five big games, and then a massive drop to everything else. The fact is that aside from some tentpole titles, basically nobody is buying more than a handful of games, if that.
in the music industry, people seem to forget that subscription models came about in response to a complete and utter deflation of the market. Piracy reigned supreme and barely anyone was buying music anymore. These days, there’s some slight resurgence in physical ownership, especially among those that never gave up on it, but music piracy is… not dead, but inconvenient enough that the vast majority of people don’t bother.
Back to games, I’m not saying free to play is exactly like piracy, but it’s kind of the same vibe if that makes sense. There’s millions of gamers who have zero interest in buying games outright, and also see no need for a subscription if all they’re playing is a couple free to play games each year.
When the choice is $80 for game X, or $0 to keep playing game Y’s latest season, then game Y isn’t just good enough, it’s exactly what they want.
Subscriptions are a bit different in that they have not become the default like with music, and I think that’s only somewhat because of the remaining people who want to own every game. I think the bigger reason is that, as said, the biggest chunk of gaming time is spent on free to play games and there’s zero incentive for those gamers to buy into a subscription for games they’ll never touch.
I think that’s why the industry is at this major pivoting point, where good and great studios just can’t keep up, and where the giant companies make massive cuts to appease only the shareholders, and where subscriptions have flattened while free to play only thrives for the lucky few titles that find an audience in any given year.
#195
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
I think a lot of the problem is on consumers. People are complete illogical idiots. Everyone says they hate subscription models but there's a reason why subscription models reign supreme in this economy. We've voted with our dollars on everything from video games, movies, music, software, hell even cars. That we want a subscription based model. So yeah everyone balks at an $80 Mario Kart game. But how much are teens and parents paying on stupid Fortnight skins? Or Robucks? Maybe I'm just old fashioned but just let me pay for the damn game upfront. We're getting exactly what we've voted for. Everything is going to conglomerate into just a few giants of media and push out all the independent thought and creativity.
#196
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
And Microsoft is also pulling funding from other developers. Romero Studios laid off their entire staff after a title Bethesda was going to publish pulled the plug. Contraband (which has been MIA since the initial reveal four years ago) made the reveal trailer private, which doesn't bode well.
#197
TOTY Winner 2018 and Inane Thread Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 54,149
Received 1,731 Likes
on
1,418 Posts
From: "Are any of us really anywhere?"
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
well, i know that more will stay employed thanks to my over buying all their products.
#198
Moderator
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
-
OldBoy! A-ah!
Saviour of the Universe
OldBoy! A-ah!
He'll save every one of us
OldBoy! A-ah!
He's a miracle
OldBoy! A-ah!
King of the impossible
-Saviour of the Universe
OldBoy! A-ah!
He'll save every one of us
OldBoy! A-ah!
He's a miracle
OldBoy! A-ah!
King of the impossible
... I'm only joking.
The following users liked this post:
tanman (07-03-25)
#199
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
Two studio heads discuss Game Pass and how it's an unsustainable model that will really hurt the gaming industry.
#200
Thread Starter
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,711
Received 2,803 Likes
on
1,864 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: The increasingly tricky business of video games
The economics make sense if Microsoft were able to reach the audience they intended, but obviously Game Pass is a long way from 100 million subscribers. And there are undeniably games -- debuting on PS+ and Game Pass -- that are marked successes because of their availability on these services. I don't think Game Pass can really be pointed to as a meaningful factor in the rickety state of the industry, though, especially given the dominance of a tiny handful of free-to-play/forever games (compared to a service that's a long way from dominant and is heavily oriented around the least popular console on the market).
I don't think Game Pass is meaningfully to blame for the quarterly purges at Xbox. With the way things are going, though, I do worry that Microsoft is going to fall into a fewer-but-bigger-games paradigm where the studios that specialize in smaller titles are not long for the world. And generally I worry because how many quarterly layoffs can you suffer and still have a viable business?
FWIW, industry analyst Mat Piscatella’s take:

I don't think Game Pass is meaningfully to blame for the quarterly purges at Xbox. With the way things are going, though, I do worry that Microsoft is going to fall into a fewer-but-bigger-games paradigm where the studios that specialize in smaller titles are not long for the world. And generally I worry because how many quarterly layoffs can you suffer and still have a viable business?
FWIW, industry analyst Mat Piscatella’s take:




