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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 11648896)
However, the only "evidence" of a scam is simply the lack of information and details, and speculation around those missing details. That lack of information can make reasonable people wary, but it's not proof of a scam.
To prove otherwise would be pretty easy for her to do. It would seem that if she was on her deathbed and had already put herself out there with an Indiegogo campaign, providing verification of her situation should not be that big of a deal. Given that the alternative, as she has indicated, is death. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by maxfisher
(Post 11648942)
Her own account that you posted says she collapsed and was taken to the hospital, which is when she seems to have found out she has too much cortisol in her system and is going to die in months instead of years. When you collapse and are taken to the hospital, that's the ER. And if she was being poisoned to the point it was causing her to collapse, I can't imagine the doctor who would say, 'Nope, not an emergency yet. You've still got a couple months to live.'
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 11648976)
Cortisol is related to stress, so it's not directly related to her metal poisoning. Also, ERs are again for stabalizing, not necessarily curing. Finally, the health care system in the US is fucked up. You and I are both speculating on what instances would allow her for being treated without insurance coverage or paying upfront, but we can't say that it would definitely happen one way or the other without knowing specifics.
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Gambit
(Post 11648947)
You're right. Given that scams are so prevalent, the reasonable response is to be wary and assume that there is a high probability that this is a scam until proven otherwise.
To prove otherwise would be pretty easy for her to do. It would seem that if she was on her deathbed and had already put herself out there with an Indiegogo campaign, providing verification of her situation should not be that big of a deal. Given that the alternative, as she has indicated, is death. http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...huge-success/1 http://www.rockethub.com/projects/2165-extra-credits Of course, it's possible many there donated simply to show their appreciation of the show. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Well, you sure showed all of those who donated to Allison Theus but were skeptical of this fundraiser.
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 11649025)
It's interesting, when Extra Credits started a crowdfunder on Rockethub a few years back to fund their artist Allison Theus's shoulder surgery, I don't there were any doubts about the validity, or demands for specifics or proof:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...huge-success/1 http://www.rockethub.com/projects/2165-extra-credits Of course, it's possible many there donated simply to show their appreciation of the show. In any event, not sure why you even brought that up, as the situations are totally different. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
The way I see it, there are two distinct possibilities :
Either 1) Poor Chloe is the most unlucky car crash victim since Lennay Kekua, as she suffered first a serious car crash, then borderline malpractice, then suffered a complication so rare it may not even be documented in medical literature despite being the direct result of the most common cause of significant traumatic injury and accidental death in the USA. Then, when the cause of illness was identified, her insurance company refused to pay for the life-saving surgery and her ED sent her out without performing the procedure at the risk of both lawsuits and possible legal consequence. She then lost two sequential lawsuits, (neither of which can be found by searching the internet), but decided not to sue the insurance company that refuses to pay for the surgery. Then when she sought help from her family was told they'd rather she die than be gay. Then she reluctantly started a crowdfunding site as a last resort. Then suddenly decided she wanted to kill herself right then as a bunch of total strangers were chipping in thousands of dollars to save her life. Then as a final blow of bad luck, had the folks at Indiegogo erroneously decided the story was fraudulent and cancelled the funding. Or 2) She's lying to at least some degree in hopes of scamming money. Those are really the only possibilities. Hmmm... it's really hard to tell which of those is the more likely situation |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11649275)
The way I see it, there are two distinct possibilities...
1) It's really unknown if metal poisoning from a piece of car shrapnel is or isn't in "medical literature." There is a mention in a Wikipedia article of it occurring though. Google doesn't bring up much, but as Deftones pointed out, Google isn't the end-all-be-all of information. 2) Again, you're speculating about what the ER can or cannot be held liable for. You seem to think it's impossible an ER would send someone stable home, even if they have a chronic, fatal condition. That's just an opinion though, and doesn't prove this aspect of her story untrue. 3) She did sue the insurance company. The two lawsuits (which I failed to find online, but doesn't mean they don't exist) were against the insurance company for failing to cover to sugery, and against the original hospital for failing to remove the metal after the car accident. 4) Her suicidal posts were made after the IndieGogo campaign was deleted. The IndieGogo page was removed around 11:00PM EDT on 4/9, and her posts were made around 11:20PM EDT on 4/9. So it may or may not be a scam, but her story isn't quite as ridiculous as you painted it. Project Zomboid, which contributed proceeds from their game sales to her crowdfunding, have put a statement up on their site: http://projectzomboid.com/blog/index...-re-indiegogo/ Given the size of our donation and its origins in our playing community, the situation is less clear than we feel comfortable with. As such we will require further details and satisfactory public explanations for exactly what’s going on from Chloe and/or IndieGogo – or by necessity we would start looking to donate all money raised to a different good cause. Our chosen charity would be Médecins Sans Frontières – the international medical aid charity. This is an organisation that works worldwide providing medical aid to those most in need regardless of their race, religion, or political affiliation – and is close to the TIS heart, as we know it would be to many of Chloe’s supporters. If this were to happen, and if anyone were unsatisfied with that choice, we have spoken to our friends at Desura and would be open to refunding game purchases that took place on the 3rd, 4th and 5th of April upon request. We would let everyone know as/when this will be available through our blog and twitter feed. All refunds would come from our own pocket – as we would like the charity donation total of $4030 to remain sacrosanct. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Gambit
(Post 11649121)
I think in that Allison Theus case you pointed out, they had established a community of people with their show, and established some level of trust.
In any event, not sure why you even brought that up, as the situations are totally different. In any case, that was the first other health-related crowdfunding I could think of. I've subsequently found this blog post IndieGogo made highlighting several health-related fundraisers. From what I can tell, none of them gave the kind of details people are expecting from the Chloe Sagal one: http://blog.indiegogo.com/2011/09/spotlight-health.html |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
In this day in age with catfishing and all the other nefarious shit people do online, I can't people are defending this as real. Sure, it could be real. But we should look at this shit as skeptics first, not believers.
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 11649317)
.
3) She did sue the insurance company. The two lawsuits (which I failed to find online, but doesn't mean they don't exist) were against the insurance company for failing to cover to sugery, and against the original hospital for failing to remove the metal after the car accident. So it may or may not be a scam, but her story isn't quite as ridiculous as you painted it. Still, it's a HUGE stretch to think she went through what she did without any objective confirmation. I asked a surgical colleague at lunch if it was at all possible that a missed abdominal remnant from a MVA could cause "metal poisoning" if left in place and he said no. I was hoping to ask an ED doctor about the legal ramifications of diagnosing a treatable life-threatening problem and then refusing to perform the procedure based on the inability to pay, but I didn't see my friend who works there. I'll get back to you on that one. BTW : Doctors Without Borders is a GREAT charity and I'd be delighted if this woman's scam resulted in a sizable donation to them. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 11649323)
I don't know how they're totally different, as they're both requests for money for surgery. There's a lot of differences, sure, but in the basic premise they're the same.
In any case, that was the first other health-related crowdfunding I could think of. I've subsequently found this blog post IndieGogo made highlighting several health-related fundraisers. From what I can tell, none of them gave the kind of details people are expecting from the Chloe Sagal one: http://blog.indiegogo.com/2011/09/spotlight-health.html So what you are arguing is that even though Chloe's story sounds fishy to everyone, everyone is treating her unfairly and not giving her the benefit of the doubt like you are. Like I said before, it would be so easy for her to provide proof. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Deftones
(Post 11649329)
In this day in age with catfishing and all the other nefarious shit people do online, I can't people are defending this as real. Sure, it could be real. But we should look at this shit as skeptics first, not believers.
Oh by the way, for those who did give a little such as myself, indiegogo hasn't refunded shit, at least for me personally. If they haven't done so by the middle of next week, I'm fileing a claim. I could have lived with the fact that I got scammed by the girl, but if somebody is going to say I get refunded and doesn't do so, that's even worse, just my opinion. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Kedrix
(Post 11649532)
Guilty until proven innocent huh? That's what this nation was built on huh? Anyway, like I mentioned before, I hope its a scam now but only because if its not, a person's life is destroyed which is highly unfortunate. True, I would think she would produce documents and I understand the skepticism. But I think I read in some article that basically it either comes down to two things, either she's a terrible conartist or she is for real. Until it comes out one way or the other officially, I hope its the later.
Oh by the way, for those who did give a little such as myself, indiegogo hasn't refunded shit, at least for me personally. If they haven't done so by the middle of next week, I'm fileing a claim. I could have lived with the fact that I got scammed by the girl, but if somebody is going to say I get refunded and doesn't do so, that's even worse, just my opinion. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Hey, look, a guy busted for scamming people by faking a disability to get donations: http://kotaku.com/gamer-accused-of-f...ions-472087848
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Kedrix
(Post 11649532)
But I think I read in some article that basically it either comes down to two things, either she's a terrible conartist or she is for real.
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Kedrix
(Post 11649532)
But I think I read in some article that basically it either comes down to two things, either she's a terrible conartist or she is for real.
The only definite thing I can say about this is that she needs psychological help. As for why I'm skeptical: she has a life threatening condition, which she says is "metal poisoning," but she doesn't identify the type, lists non-specific symptoms, doesn't say where the metal is (except it is in a "compromising" place, whatever that means), doesn't identify the specific condition that would cause her demise, doesn't identify the doctors, hospital, or insurance company that are jerking her around, fails to tell us what surgery/or treatment the money is for, and films a video so that she is hidden in shadows with an unnatural sounding voice. What could possibly be suspicious about that? There is not one verifiable fact in what she said. Better to give your money to an organization like Doctors without Borders, which does real work helping real people in need. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11649275)
The way I see it, there are two distinct possibilities :
Either 1) Poor Chloe is the most unlucky car crash victim since Lennay Kekua, as she suffered first a serious car crash, then borderline malpractice, then suffered a complication so rare it may not even be documented in medical literature despite being the direct result of the most common cause of significant traumatic injury and accidental death in the USA. Then, when the cause of illness was identified, her insurance company refused to pay for the life-saving surgery and her ED sent her out without performing the procedure at the risk of both lawsuits and possible legal consequence. She then lost two sequential lawsuits, (neither of which can be found by searching the internet), but decided not to sue the insurance company that refuses to pay for the surgery. Then when she sought help from her family was told they'd rather she die than be gay. Then she reluctantly started a crowdfunding site as a last resort. Then suddenly decided she wanted to kill herself right then as a bunch of total strangers were chipping in thousands of dollars to save her life. Then as a final blow of bad luck, had the folks at Indiegogo erroneously decided the story was fraudulent and cancelled the funding. Or 2) She's lying to at least some degree in hopes of scamming money. Those are really the only possibilities. Hmmm... it's really hard to tell which of those is the more likely situation |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by chuckd21
(Post 11647221)
Well, whatever the situation actually is, I have no regrets about trying to help out another human being.
If you want to help out another human being, you're better off donating to a real charity than some questionable (<em>at best</em>) page on a crowd funding site. This story is tailor-made to both tug on your heart strings ("She's going to die and no one cares!") and inflame righteous indignation ("How <em>dare</em> her family not support her because she's gay!"). |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Decker
(Post 11649335)
Still, it's a HUGE stretch to think she went through what she did without any objective confirmation. I asked a surgical colleague at lunch if it was at all possible that a missed abdominal remnant from a MVA could cause "metal poisoning" if left in place and he said no. I was hoping to ask an ED doctor about the legal ramifications of diagnosing a treatable life-threatening problem and then refusing to perform the procedure based on the inability to pay, but I didn't see my friend who works there. I'll get back to you on that one.
Originally Posted by Gambit
(Post 11649384)
You eat lunch at a restaurant with good reviews and the food tastes great. You go next door at a restaurant that has no reviews and have a similar meal but it tastes like crap and you get food poisoning afterwards. The premise is the same, you had lunch.
Originally Posted by Gambit
(Post 11649384)
So what you are arguing is that even though Chloe's story sounds fishy to everyone, everyone is treating her unfairly and not giving her the benefit of the doubt like you are.
Originally Posted by Kedrix
(Post 11649532)
Guilty until proven innocent huh? That's what this nation was built on huh?
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 11649630)
I want names and the degrees of these doctors you're talking to, otherwise they're not real and you're trying to scam us into thinking you know what the hell you're talking about.
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
When I first saw that video, I could not help but think of
It just came across as forced... |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by Jay G.
(Post 11649630)
It's a bad analogy, since in this case we haven't had the "lunch" yet. The best we can say is that the place looks sketchy, which isn't a bad thing to base a decision on where to eat at on.
I'm not really giving her the benefit of the doubt. If you want to be skeptical, go ahead. Just don't think your skepticism proves anything, and for god's sake get the facts right first. I gave a simple example where the basic premise is exactly identical. Two restaurants serving the same meal. Should we expect that a patron would have comparable experiences in both just because the starting premise is the same? Are there not other more critical factors that would determine how the experience will go? And yes, I am skeptical but I have never stated that this proves she is unequivocally a scam artist. But the thing is, the burden of proof is not on me. If she wants to demonstrate to all the skeptics that her story is legit, that's on her. |
Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
I guess we'll all find out soon enough, eh?
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Re: Dying Indie Developer seeks crowd funding
Originally Posted by foxdvd
(Post 11650330)
When I first saw that video, I could not help but think of
It just came across as forced... |
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