Xbox One Pre-Release Thread: Upscaled to 1080p! (11/22/2013)

Closed Thread Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

07-29-13 | 01:20 PM

#5226

chess

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: Mar 2000

Posts: 20,804

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

From: San Antonio

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel

Here's how I look at it:

Sony should've been direct about the use of RAM out the door like Microsoft was. Even with all the bullshit Microsoft spewed over the months of May and June, at least they were upfront about where the RAM went.
Even with that said, 5GB of RAM is still 10x more than what's currently in the PS3 and 360.
The 10x more RAM inside the XO and PS4 is significantly faster than what's currently in the PS3 and 360 (the 360 uses 512MB DDR3 700Mhz, the PS3 uses 256MB GDDR3 at 700Mhz alongside its 256MB XDR Main RAM).
Most PC games can only utilize up to 3GB of RAM (as they're all coded for 32-bit hardware), so in theory, the consoles are a step ahead.
Until we see performance tests between both consoles in action, there's no difference in terms of specifications. On paper, the PS4 has the better hardware. However, as we saw with this past-generation, the developers tend to code for the lowest common denominator. With the x86 architecture in both consoles, it will be easier to put games on all three platforms (PC, PS4, and XO). The developers and publishers win in that regard.

Quote:

However, will there be a noticeable difference between the PS4 and XO on those games that are non-exclusive?

Remains to be seen, but most games developed for PC are quite scalable. There may be some games in a few years where you see differences on about the same ratio as 360 vs. PS3, which is to say you'd never know unless you looked side by side, and it's never been enough to override preferences for ecosystem or controller.

I think at this point, hardware specs are pretty far down the list of concerns for picking a console, certainly well below friends, ecosystem, controller, exclusive games, price...hell, I picked PS3 largely because it was backwards compatible and was a good blu-ray player!

07-29-13 | 01:24 PM

#5227

fumanstan

DVD Talk Godfather

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 55,349

Likes: 2

Received 27 Likes on 15 Posts

From: Irvine, CA

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel

Here's how I look at it:

Sony should've been direct about the use of RAM out the door like Microsoft was. Even with all the bullshit Microsoft spewed over the months of May and June, at least they were upfront about where the RAM went.
Even with that said, 5GB of RAM is still 10x more than what's currently in the PS3 and 360.
The 10x more RAM inside the XO and PS4 is significantly faster than what's currently in the PS3 and 360 (the 360 uses 512MB DDR3 700Mhz, the PS3 uses 256MB GDDR3 at 700Mhz alongside its 256MB XDR Main RAM).
Most PC games can only utilize up to 3GB of RAM (as they're all coded for 32-bit hardware), so in theory, the consoles are a step ahead.
Until we see performance tests between both consoles in action, there's no difference in terms of specifications. On paper, the PS4 has the better hardware. However, as we saw with this past-generation, the developers tend to code for the lowest common denominator. With the x86 architecture in both consoles, it will be easier to put games on all three platforms (PC, PS4, and XO). The developers and publishers win in that regard. However, will there be a noticeable difference between the PS4 and XO on those games that are non-exclusive?

Pretty much, although other then the new info on Sony's memory usage, I think that's basically what we've all been predicting for months now. That's why I didn't see the big deal about RAM, at the end of the day it doesn't change much regards to everything else we already knew.

07-29-13 | 01:26 PM

#5228

RichC2

DVD Talk Hero

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 46,694

Likes: 385

Received 1,392 Likes on 1,094 Posts

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Maybe this will help move PC gaming to pure 64-bit. The whole 32-bit thing is getting a touch ridiculous at this point.

07-29-13 | 01:38 PM

#5229

fumanstan

DVD Talk Godfather

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 55,349

Likes: 2

Received 27 Likes on 15 Posts

From: Irvine, CA

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC2

Maybe this will help move PC gaming to pure 64-bit. The whole 32-bit thing is getting a touch ridiculous at this point.

It will, but even with all PC's coming with 64 bit Windows 7 or 8 these days that still means developing separate 32 bit binaries for the millions of people that are on older operating systems.

07-29-13 | 01:42 PM

#5230

Matthew Chmiel

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: May 2000

Posts: 13,262

Likes: 0

Received 1 Like on 1 Post

From: Las Vegas, NV

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC2

Maybe this will help move PC gaming to pure 64-bit. The whole 32-bit thing is getting a touch ridiculous at this point.

Ah, I forget that Windows users still use nothing but mostly 32-bit software.

The big deal of RAM with regards to PS4 vs the XO is really the type.

XO's DDR3 RAM running at 2133 MHz is great because:

Microsoft went with the fastest DDR3 RAM that's available at a consumer level. Most high-end gaming PCs I've encountered don't even utilize 2133 MHz.
DDR3 is great for sending information in every direction (i.e. multitasking).

PS4's GDDR5 RAM running at 5500 MHz is great because:

GDDR5 RAM is great for intensive graphics rendering.
However, not so great at multitasking which the PS3 has a lack of and a lot of the PS4 features bank on this.

Microsoft, first and foremost, is a software company. Performance is based upon both one's hardware and software. Even with lesser hardware, Microsoft can push the most out of it. Sony isn't really either and the PS4 will be their first real operating system. Features that the 360 has had for years are finally making their way to Sony's end simply because the software couldn't allow for it. For those 360 owners making the switch to the PS4, the software experience could be a huge make it-or-break it for them.

With that being said, I can't wait to get my hands on both of them in less than 30 days.

07-29-13 | 01:49 PM

#5231

RichC2

DVD Talk Hero

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 46,694

Likes: 385

Received 1,392 Likes on 1,094 Posts

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by fumanstan

It will, but even with all PC's coming with 64 bit Windows 7 or 8 these days that still means developing separate 32 bit binaries for the millions of people that are on older operating systems.

I just can't see someone with a system strong enough to play the latest and greatest running a 32-bit OS.

07-29-13 | 02:02 PM

#5232

chess

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: Mar 2000

Posts: 20,804

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

From: San Antonio

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel

Sony isn't really either [software or hardware company] and the PS4 will be their first real operating system.

Neither of these statements is remotely true. Sony has always been a hardware company and has developed multiple OSs, though certainly not as many as MS.

Quote:

Features that the 360 has had for years are finally making their way to Sony's end simply because the software couldn't allow for it.

Also not true. Most of the features you're talking about like cross game chat and party chat were due to PS3's hardware limitations, specifically RAM.

And everything I've read about GDDR3 vs. GDDR5 makes your equivocation about them seem a bit off. Everything I can find makes 8GB of GDDR5 seem like a fairly monstrous and future-proof piece of tech. Granted there's certainly nothing in the near term that X1's GDDR3 will have any trouble with, but I'm not sure that equates to them being equivalent. If anything, I'm finding a lot of tech recommendations for smaller blocks of GDDR5 over larger blocks of GDDR3 just due to bandwidth.

I agree, however, that MS has the software advantage.

Last edited by chess; 07-29-13 at 02:20 PM.

07-29-13 | 02:28 PM

#5233

Matthew Chmiel

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: May 2000

Posts: 13,262

Likes: 0

Received 1 Like on 1 Post

From: Las Vegas, NV

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by chess

Neither of these statements is remotely true. Sony has always been a hardware company and has developed multiple OSs, though certainly not as many as MS.

In recent years, Sony usually outsources their hardware rather than develop it in-house. The cell processor used in the PS3 and every other electronic device they've built since then (Sony wanted it to be the "Swiss army knife of processors") was a collaboration between them, IBM, and Toshiba.

This is their first, real operating system that utilizes traditional PC hardware. I don't consider what's been on previous PlayStation consoles or on their old cell phones or whatever to be real operating systems. Christ, the PS3 can't even multitask whereas the 360 can.

Quote:

Most of the features you're talking about like cross game chat and party chat were due to PS3's hardware limitations, specifically RAM.

Disa-fucking-gree.

As someone who has used Ventrilo for years in a PC environment with gaming, it utilizes next-to-nothing in system resources. What that tells me is that whoever developed the OS for the PS3 bloated the fuck out of it.

07-29-13 | 02:49 PM

#5234

chess

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: Mar 2000

Posts: 20,804

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

From: San Antonio

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel

This is their first, real operating system that utilizes traditional PC hardware. I don't consider what's been on previous PlayStation consoles or on their old cell phones or whatever to be real operating systems. Christ, the PS3 can't even multitask whereas the 360 can.

Disa-fucking-gree.

As someone who has used Ventrilo for years in a PC environment with gaming, it utilizes next-to-nothing in system resources. What that tells me is that whoever developed the OS for the PS3 bloated the fuck out of it.

I'm not going to defend the architecture of the PS3 or its OS, but it's not limited for the reason you seem to think it is...or at least it doesn't jive with everything I've read.

As I understand it, on PS3, the RAM left over after the OS is strictly dedicated to the game that's active and the architecture won't allow sharing between games. Or at least that was Sony's explanation for why we didn't get cross-game chat. According to them, it was a hardware limitation rather than software, which is really the only logical explanation for why they never added it.

The truth is that Sony grossly underestimated the importance of online gaming coming into this generation, and they were MAYBE a step or two ahead of Nintendo in terms of online interface and infrastructure. They sorted a lot of it out over time with firmware workarounds, but they built a system that simply couldn't do everything 360 could do because 360 (credit to MS for innovation) was built around online gaming.

07-29-13 | 02:53 PM

#5235

fujishig

DVD Talk Godfather

Joined: Aug 1999

Posts: 51,326

Likes: 412

Received 2,995 Likes on 2,286 Posts

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

If true that's weird, because they bothered to put in wireless ethernet from the beginning when Microsoft did not, although I guess that fits in with media streaming.

07-29-13 | 03:22 PM

#5236

Matthew Chmiel

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: May 2000

Posts: 13,262

Likes: 0

Received 1 Like on 1 Post

From: Las Vegas, NV

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Yeah. I don't buy that. Especially as online gaming on consoles started to take place with the Dreamcast, PS2, and XBOX. To be honest, the Dreamcast and XBOX were both light years ahead of what the PS2 could do in regards to Internet capability?

In 2006, when the PS3 was finally launched, the only item that could stream to the PS3 was a computer. So why build in Ethernet and wireless just for that? The PSN Store didn't exist for entertainment (yet). So was WiFi being built-in just a "placeholder?"

Even in 2013, Microsoft has adapted to newer technologies as Wireless-N spec has been built-in to the 360 since 2010. Yet, Sony still uses the old B/G standard.

As a gamer who does a lot of online gaming, this is why I still prefer the XO over PS4. Until I see it in action with the network at peak, I don't trust Sony with building an environment and an experience that'll match and rival Microsoft's.

07-29-13 | 03:34 PM

#5237

Music

DVD Talk Hall of Fame

Joined: Jan 2001

Posts: 9,033

Likes: 545

Received 169 Likes on 130 Posts

From: NH

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

This is Sony's last chance to do online and multiplayer in general right for me.

If there isn't a vast improvement, I don't know if I will bother with a PS5 unless there are some really awesome exclusives for it.

Anyway... look PWETTY!!!!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/g0xb7ALK_88" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now the video linking stuff is gone? BAH!

07-29-13 | 03:34 PM

#5238

RichC2

DVD Talk Hero

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 46,694

Likes: 385

Received 1,392 Likes on 1,094 Posts

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

I thought the main use for Sony's Wifi was for Bluray/BD Live features.

07-29-13 | 03:46 PM

#5239

shumway

DVD Talk Limited Edition

Joined: Dec 1999

Posts: 5,133

Likes: 0

Received 1 Like on 1 Post

From: San Antonio, Tx

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel

Why would the president of Sony lie about a hardware RAM limitation? As explained here, it makes perfect sense to me. Definitely short-sighted on the design side though:

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/new...g-to-vita.html

"Once a game gets RAM, we never give it back," Sony Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida told Eurogamer. "It's not possible to retrofit something like that after the fact."

"The game has to use its own memory to do [in-game voice chat]," he continued. "There's always voice chat in the game. But it's a part of a game feature. It's not a part of an OS feature. That's the reason in terms of the ability to have voice chat across different games."

07-29-13 | 04:41 PM

#5240

chess

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: Mar 2000

Posts: 20,804

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

From: San Antonio

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Like I said, they were just a step ahead of Nintendo. They understood connecting online on a per-game basis, and built hardware suited for that. What they didn't foresee was the real innovation of the 360...the online ecosystem functioning outside of and between games...and the 360 was built around those ideas from hardware, software and policy perspectives.

I don't think they'll make the same mistakes, but it's also fair to doubt them.

07-29-13 | 04:45 PM

#5241

K&AJones

DVD Talk Hall of Fame

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 9,031

Likes: 794

Received 136 Likes on 123 Posts

From: Nashville TN

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Just curious...has anything else been mentioned about current headsets working or not with the XO? Thought there was talk about a adapter or something to make them work. The prices for the controller and headset are up...$60.00 for the wireless controller and $25.00 for the headset.

07-29-13 | 04:48 PM

#5242

Music

DVD Talk Hall of Fame

Joined: Jan 2001

Posts: 9,033

Likes: 545

Received 169 Likes on 130 Posts

From: NH

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

I have not heard anything more than MS was working on an adapter.

07-30-13 | 08:13 AM

#5243

chess

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: Mar 2000

Posts: 20,804

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

From: San Antonio

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

That really stinks about the headset compatibility. It's an odd design choice, and I hope it brings you guys some more functionality and isn't just an excuse to sell more headsets or adapters.

To be fair, I don't imagine I'll use my wired USB headset on PS4 and will probably end up buying something better for the controller port. But it's kind of nice to know that I could use it, and it's nice to have something packed in for the interim, even if it's just an earbud. Hell, I could still use any of the bluetooth headsets I have laying around...just wish my best one weren't pink.

07-30-13 | 12:25 PM

#5244

discostu1337

DVD Talk Platinum Edition

Joined: Oct 2001

Posts: 3,402

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

From: San Diego

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Hope this ends up true but MS is "considering" including their headset with the console!

https://twitter.com/albertpenello/st...82498332356608

07-30-13 | 01:24 PM

#5245

RichC2

DVD Talk Hero

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 46,694

Likes: 385

Received 1,392 Likes on 1,094 Posts

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Best Buy just sent me another text trying to get me to pre-order an Xbox One Launch Day Edition Game Console.

07-30-13 | 02:39 PM

#5246

Guru Askew

DVD Talk Gold Edition

Joined: Aug 2010

Posts: 2,080

Likes: 0

Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC2

Best Buy just sent me another text trying to get me to pre-order an Xbox One Launch Day Edition Game Console.

An electronics retailer trying to sell a piece of consumer tech to someone on their marketing list? Idiots.

07-30-13 | 02:43 PM

#5247

RichC2

DVD Talk Hero

Joined: May 2001

Posts: 46,694

Likes: 385

Received 1,392 Likes on 1,094 Posts

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru Askew

An electronics retailer trying to sell a piece of consumer tech to someone on their marketing list? Idiots.

Actually it's more of a note that Launch Day is still available. Not a complaint about me being on Best Buy's Gamers list.

Last edited by RichC2; 07-30-13 at 02:51 PM.

07-30-13 | 02:43 PM

#5248

Michael Corvin

DVD Talk Godfather

Joined: May 1999

Posts: 63,465

Likes: 1,299

Received 1,377 Likes on 943 Posts

From: Louisville, KY

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by discostu1337

Hope this ends up true but MS is "considering" including their headset with the console!

https://twitter.com/albertpenello/st...82498332356608

Or here's a novel idea, just ditch the proprietary port bullshit.

07-30-13 | 02:49 PM

#5249

Matthew Chmiel

DVD Talk Legend

Joined: May 2000

Posts: 13,262

Likes: 0

Received 1 Like on 1 Post

From: Las Vegas, NV

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin

Or here's a novel idea, just ditch the proprietary port bullshit.

This... but I like the fact that all headphones will connect via the controller.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/07/games-smartmatch-feature

Quote:

Originally Posted by Microsoft

When we revealed Xbox One to the world in May, we introduced Smart Match. We then unveiled more details on our next generation matchmaking system at E3, and since then we’ve heard you would like to hear more about it. Here are the top three things gamers should know about the Xbox One revolutionary matchmaking system called Smart Match.

Smart Match Finds the Perfect Players for the Perfect game

Smart Match on Xbox One is completely reengineered for a new generation of gaming – using advanced algorithms to pair players based on skill, language, and now reputation. It’s smarter, faster and optimized to help you play with exactly the people you want, when you want. The advanced party system goes far beyond the beacons of Xbox 360, which was limited to people you already knew. Helping you discover and connect easily with players is now central to the experience. In addition, for the first time, games will be able to share player stats with Xbox Live and each other; to learn, evolve, and provide you with the best possible matchmaking available.

The results? Titles have the ability to match you with other players based on reputation (which we will be talking more about in a post tomorrow), skill, language, age, and even your specific gameplay style. You won’t find yourself in way over your head but you’ll always have a good challenge.

Smart Match Frees Up Your Time

With Smart Match, you can do whatever you want while Xbox One finds your perfect match. This means that less popular multiplayer modes and maps that have traditionally taken a long time to find players suddenly become playable. Because Snap mode is a core feature of Xbox One that lets you do two things at once, you no longer have to wait in lobbies while Xbox Live is matchmaking for you. One friend can even set up matches for your whole party.

While Xbox Live is matchmaking, you’re untethered and free to do what you want, like watch TV or check out your favorite website or apps while waiting for your next game. If you’re playing digital games, you can even play one game while Smart Match prepares a second. This freedom to break out of waiting in lobbies and do whatever you want is what separates Xbox One from systems that don’t have a way to instantly switch between tasks.

Smart Match Lets You Know When Your Game is Ready

After you or a party member inputs the criteria for your perfect game, do something more fun than waiting; it’s up to you. Play another game, find some new downloadable content, or jump on Reddit. Take yourself as many touch points away from the matchmaking process as you can and you still don’t need to worry about finding your way back. Once Xbox One is done finding your perfect match, it will prompt you with a simple toast—no matter where you are or what you’re doing—so you can jump straight into playing.

07-30-13 | 02:55 PM

#5250

fumanstan

DVD Talk Godfather

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 55,349

Likes: 2

Received 27 Likes on 15 Posts

From: Irvine, CA

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??

Pretty cool feature; reminds me of the ability in Steam to automatically join a server when it opens up so you don't have to alt-tab in and out of the game (only potentially better). Sounds neat to play an arcade game between matches or something too while you wait.